B teams in English football

A new competition for Premier League and Championship clubs to field B teams will be considered by the Football Association on Wednesday.

It has been proposed that the teams could play in a league sandwiched between League Two and the Conference.

Another option is to merge League Two and the Conference with the B teams to form two regional leagues.

The proposals are part of FA chairman Greg Dyke's commission on the future of the national team.

It is understood that the Premier League and Football League clubs are broadly in favour of the B team concept, which would be predominantly made up of homegrown players, but have reservations about how it might fit into the pyramid and the knock-on effects to other leagues and competitions.

One question is whether current League Two clubs would be relegated into the Conference or the new B team league if they went down. The other difficult issue is how far could B teams be promoted?

Despite those worries, one source told the BBC that following more than 300 interviews with clubs and other stakeholders in the game, led by research consultant Peter Beverley, there was a universal acceptance that a major overhaul was needed to ensure big clubs' reserve teams and younger English talent were being given more regular, competitive football.

Commission members point to the fact that clubs in Spain, France and Germany all play B teams in competitive leagues - thought to be a big factor in those countries developing talent.

Dyke is believed to be keen to open the debate about the state of the national game ahead of the World Cup finals in Brazil which kick off on 12 June.

There is a determination to get on the front foot ahead of the tournament to pre-empt the inevitable debate which will follow if Roy Hodgson's England team put in a disappointing performance in Brazil.

Ironically the emergence of players like Raheem Sterling at Liverpool and Adam Lallana at Southampton have taken some of the heat out of that debate in recent months.

And some senior figures inside the FA are urging Dyke to hold fire until after the competition and until all the finer details of the commission's proposals are ironed out.

The Dyke commission was set up last autumn to try and address ongoing concerns about the strength of the English national team and the lack of top-class English talent forcing its way through into Premier League first teams.

The commission, which includes former England manager Glenn Hoddle, former Leeds boss Howard Wilkinson and ex-Crewe manager Dario Gradi, is aiming to deal with two major questions - the pathway for players aged between 17 and 21 and grassroots facilities.

While it is thought the commission has done extensive work on the first question, the issue of grassroots football is not yet complete.

Other proposals expected to go before the FA board on Wednesday include a shake-up of the loan system and changes to the homegrown player quotas operated by Premier League and Football League clubs.

But it is the B team proposal that promises to be the most controversial.

The first potential problem that strikes me is that wouldn't having B-teams mean that the Premier League and to an extent Championship clubs start hoarding talented youngsters in even greater numbers to play for their B-teams? Meaning that smaller clubs will have even less youth talent left for them.

GoonerJay29 wrote:

The first potential problem that strikes me is that wouldn't having B-teams mean that the Premier League and to an extent Championship clubs start hoarding talented youngsters in even greater numbers to play for their B-teams? Meaning that smaller clubs will have even less youth talent left for them.

Not necessarily. I'd imagine that the B team squads would be filled with the players from the U21 and U18 squads mainly.

For this to work, it's essential that the B teams end up in the Football League and not kept within their own division. B teams playing other B teams is no different from the U21 squads playing each other. The way I see it, you can do it one of two ways: 1) have a new league that's parallel to the Conference and have promotion to League 2, thereby filtering the B teams into the Football League over time or 2) have a system similar to the Spanish third division where the teams are separated by region and the top teams of each league enter a play-off for promotion.

There's no question that there needs to be a switch to the B team model, but as always, the complications about fitting them into the league pyramid will probably prevent that switch from happening.

rwo power wrote:In Germany, the second teams of the top clubs are U23 teams, and they have to be two divisions or more below the main team. That is, Bayern II could only play in the 3rd Liga and below, St.Pauli II had to play in the 4th division and below etc.

Moreover, the second teams of the BL teams don't get any TV money, and they are not allowed to field more than 3 players older than 23 years.

B-Mac wrote:I know United has been a big supporter and pushing this on the FA...I think most teams with excellent youth systems are supporters of this. I would like to see it, give players the opportunity to play in the football league against men without having to ship them off on loan around the country, able to keep your eye on them on and off the field.

Art Morte wrote:How's the fan base for these second teams? The same people who support the mother club, I suppose?

Art Morte wrote:I don't like the idea that the proper fan bases of traditional, smaller clubs in the lower divisions have to mingle with "B-team fans" who don't really care what happens to that B-team of theirs when it's really about the first team in the divisions above. I would feel a little insulted as a fan of a small club if my club was only seen as a "competitive training partner" by the B-teams in our division.

The creation of a new tier within the Football League to accommodate Premier League B teams is at the heart of the Football Association commission's four-point plan to boost English football.

The review also calls for a ban on non-European Union players outside of the top flight and a reduction in non-home-grown players in Premier League squads.

The suggestions are a response to a growing lack of English talent.

B teams could be promoted and relegated between Leagues One, Two and Three and the Conference, but could not play in the Championship and must always be at least one division below the full side. They would also be barred from entering domestic cup competitions like the League Cup and FA Cup.

The B team squads would require 20 out of 25 players to qualify for the home-grown rule and no non-EU players would be allowed. Nineteen players would have to be under 21.


The strategic loan approach is designed to allow clubs from the top two English leagues to loan players to a lower division 'partner' club to enable greater opportunities for 18 to 21-year-old English footballers.


"Liverpool, the Manchester clubs, Stoke, Tottenham - they have no problems with me mentioning them on this - so quite a lot of clubs recognise the problem they have got," he said.

"The gap between the academy and the first team has widened significantly in 20 years. Many of the clubs we spoke to called this the 'Bermuda Triangle' or 'black hole' of English football."

In response, the Football League said the review "may not contain a solution that is acceptable at the current time".

Art Morte wrote:The first potential problem that strikes me is that wouldn't having B-teams mean that the Premier League and to an extent Championship clubs start hoarding talented youngsters in even greater numbers to play for their B-teams? Meaning that smaller clubs will have even less youth talent left for them.

It also sounds like taking it a bit too far that a whole new division would be created within the Football League system just to accommodate the mini-versions of already existing clubs.

I don't think I like this proposal. If you want young English talent to play more competitive games, let the smaller clubs have them instead of greedily buying every promising teenager and then find out that you need to create an artificial competition for them to play in.