Where does Mata rank among the elite AM's?

I would take Mata over Silva any day. Imo he's better already.

juventus101 wrote:Shaqiri has been excellent this season, and i see nothing all that special about Mata. Mata also has a habit of disappearing in the big games.

Mata has more assists than Shaqiri has goals and assists combined

I dont think its a coincidence both Aguero and Silva have not shone like their talent says it should.

Even Nasri and Balo are better than they showed.

I lay the blame on Mancini's system-less team.

Anyway Mata is very good. I know Barca did, but I assume Madrid too showed fleeting intrest in him only not to make something of it, perhaps a mistake.

Name you one player? Gotze, Kroos, and Iniesta. Theres 3 big name AMs that thrive in big games.

juventus101 wrote:Uh, not even close to Top 3 in my opinion. Mata barely makes Top 10. I rank Iniesta, Gotze, Ozil, Kroos, Silva, Shaqiri and Cazorla all ahead of him. Ibra too, but hes more of a SS/CF hybrid but can play as a #10. Fabregas would be ahead of him too if you consider him an AM. Havent followed Holtby since his Tottenham kove, but for Schalke in the first half of this season i wouldve placed him higher than Mata too, at least when he was still trying. Matas still a great player, but nore on Oscar, Holtby, Cazorla, Shaqiris level (the second tier), and even on the tail end of those guys, besides Oscar. Dont see him ever breaking into the fitst tier either. Kagawas another one that is definutely anove jim, though i havent followed him since his injury.

The WOAT poster.

Gil wrote:

juventus101 wrote:Uh, not even close to Top 3 in my opinion. Mata barely makes Top 10. I rank Iniesta, Gotze, Ozil, Kroos, Silva, Shaqiri and Cazorla all ahead of him. Ibra too, but hes more of a SS/CF hybrid but can play as a #10. Fabregas would be ahead of him too if you consider him an AM. Havent followed Holtby since his Tottenham kove, but for Schalke in the first half of this season i wouldve placed him higher than Mata too, at least when he was still trying. Matas still a great player, but nore on Oscar, Holtby, Cazorla, Shaqiris level (the second tier), and even on the tail end of those guys, besides Oscar. Dont see him ever breaking into the fitst tier either. Kagawas another one that is definutely anove jim, though i havent followed him since his injury.

The WOAT poster.

This post is so hilarious

right now , not based on rep Mata is better than Silva and Cazorla for sure.

Holtby, shaqiri better than mata ??

juventus101 wrote:Name you one player? Gotze, Kroos, and Iniesta. Theres 3 big name AMs that thrive in big games.

Not sure what you mean by big games, but I assume it doesn't necessarily have to be a final or something, big derby or just any games that you cannot afford to lost are also big games.
Sure the players you mentioned has thrived in some of big games they played, but the same can be said about Mata. While you can be nitpicking on few Mata's less impressive performance in big matches, we can also do the same to any player really, including players you mentioned, because Gotze, Kroos, Iniesta too has failed in some of big games they played, who hasn't really.

I'm not sure what make you underrate Mata so much. Some match result changing stuff he did for Chelsea was very special. He proved himself in new league right away and lived up to high expectation the past 2 season between coach firing after firing, do you think it’s easy? Kagawa who’s back then outshining Gotze and Kroos in Bundesliga for 2 seasons prior to his move to United has yet to show the same promise as Mata, for example. Seems like La liga player going to EPL and performing has been taken for granted nowadays that some underestimate any success they achieved.

juventus101 wrote:Name you one player? Gotze, Kroos, and Iniesta. Theres 3 big name AMs that thrive in big games.

Don't know how many times everyone needs to tell you. Iniesta isn't an AM. Mata fits in that list and has a bigger impact in big games than Kroos and Gotze for sure.

Only guys better than Mata are Gotze and Iniesta. Since joining Chelsea Mata has a goal+assist/game ration of .77 and has 49 assists in 101 games for Chelsea plus 36 goals or something close to that.

Crazy numbers.

The Franchise wrote:I dont think its a coincidence both Aguero and Silva have not shone like their talent says it should.

Even Nasri and Balo are better than they showed.

I lay the blame on Mancini's system-less team.

Anyway Mata is very good. I know Barca did, but I assume Madrid too showed fleeting intrest in him only not to make something of it, perhaps a mistake.

Is that why they have the best defense in the league?

Mata is not better than Silva. The thing is, Mata plays in a much more advanced role and has to since none of Chelsea's strikers are firing so he has become the focal point at Chelsea. He scores and he assists, much like Lampard during his peak years. On the other hand, Silva plays much deeper and is not the focal point at Man City since they have many quality players and Mancini's teams have been always a "unit" rather than relying upon individual quality. Its like calling Lampard better than Gerrard because he has more goals and assists. Silva has to do a defensive job as well at times (Italian playing style) and this is clearly reflected in his stats, having more clearances, interceptions and tackles than Mata. If Mata was better, he should've overtaken Silva in Spain's starting lineup. Clearly, del Bosque doesn't feel so.

Gotze and Kroos rarely if ever disappear in big games. Every win or draw recdntly over Bayern, both wins over Real Madrid, both embarassments of Man City, both games against Ajax, the Revier Derbies, even the CL last year before Gotze got hurt, he was 95% of the time theyre best player.

Kroos also doesnt disappear in big games, look at his games agsinst Arsenal, Dortmund, etc. Hes always in the mix of things doing well, never disappears from the game except when hes defending.

And yes i see nothing special about Mata. He disappeared drom the Juve games, the parts of the Chelsea-Shakhtar and City games i have watched he disappeared.

Also, Iniesta and even Ozil are far better clutch players. Ozil consistently performs well against Barca, was Germanys best player against Italy at the Euro, performed goid against Bayern last season and Dortmund this season even if Real were outclassed in those games. And Iniesta? WC final goal in extra time? 90th minute upper-90 piledriver against Chelsea in 08-09? 2nd best player at the Euros only after Pirlo. Iniesta has a rep of a big game player. And i still consider him more of an AM than CM. Hes closer to Ozil than he is to Xavu, for example.

Mata simply cant hold a candle to these guys as well adms Silva. Cazorla i think is better thsn him too as well as Shaqiri but ill admit Shaqiri is arguable. Its certainly not one sided like you guys are makung it seem tho.

juventus101 wrote:Gotze and Kroos rarely if ever disappear in big games. Every win or draw recdntly over Bayern, both wins over Real Madrid, both embarassments of Man City, both games against Ajax, the Revier Derbies, even the CL last year before Gotze got hurt, he was 95% of the time theyre best player.

Kroos also doesnt disappear in big games, look at his games agsinst Arsenal, Dortmund, etc. Hes always in the mix of things doing well, never disappears from the game except when hes defending.

And yes i see nothing special about Mata. He disappeared drom the Juve games, the parts of the Chelsea-Shakhtar and City games i have watched he disappeared.

Also, Iniesta and even Ozil are far better clutch players. Ozil consistently performs well against Barca, was Germanys best player against Italy at the Euro, performed goid against Bayern last season and Dortmund this season even if Real were outclassed in those games. And Iniesta? WC final goal in extra time? 90th minute upper-90 piledriver against Chelsea in 08-09? 2nd best player at the Euros only after Pirlo. Iniesta has a rep of a big game player. And i still consider him more of an AM than CM. Hes closer to Ozil than he is to Xavu, for example.

Mata simply cant hold a candle to these guys as well adms Silva. Cazorla i think is better thsn him too as well as Shaqiri but ill admit Shaqiri is arguable. Its certainly not one sided like you guys are makung it seem tho.

Your brain

Tell me what i said in that post that was false.

Kroos

likeastar wrote:Kroos

wat

This topic keeps on getting better and better

VivaStPauli wrote:

likeastar wrote:Kroos

wat

Since when is Kross an elite AM ? Or since when is Kroos elite ?

A goal and 2 assists today.

Just another day for the bearded one.

likeastar wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:

likeastar wrote:Kroos

wat

Since when is Kross an elite AM ? Or since when is Kroos elite ?

When he controlled both legs against Real Madrid and took Bayern to the CL final and outshined such players as Schweignsteiger, Ozil, Alonso etc etc.

Outshining Alonso is not an achievement tbf.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

likeastar wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:

wat

Since when is Kross an elite AM ? Or since when is Kroos elite ?

When he controlled both legs against Real Madrid and took Bayern to the CL final and outshined such players as Schweignsteiger, Ozil, Alonso etc etc.

He didn't outshine Ozil, he was Madrid's best player.

alexander mahone wrote:

juventus101 wrote:Name you one player? Gotze, Kroos, and Iniesta. Theres 3 big name AMs that thrive in big games.

He proved himself in new league right away and lived up to high expectation the past 2 season between coach firing after firing, do you think it’s easy? Kagawa who’s back then outshining Gotze and Kroos in Bundesliga for 2 seasons prior to his move to United has yet to show the same promise as Mata, for example. Seems like La liga player going to EPL and performing has been taken for granted nowadays that some underestimate any success they achieved.

Kroos definitely at times but Götze never really..

likeastar wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:

likeastar wrote:Kroos

wat

Since when is Kross an elite AM ? Or since when is Kroos elite ?

WAT

VivaStPauli wrote:

likeastar wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:

wat

Since when is Kross an elite AM ? Or since when is Kroos elite ?

WAT

lol just ignore him

Mata is class.

I remember reading the lfc.tv forums when Silva was still at Valencia and everyone wanted to buy him and this one poster was always saying Mata would be better.

Most people laughed him off but the way they are playing these days you'd have to say he's right. Mata is really really good.

Only Iniesta is certainty better. Then you got the likes of Gotze and Kroos who are of similar ability and the likes of Silva/Hamsik/Ozil bringing up the rear. (kinda depends in form too though)/.

Iniesta, Ozil and Gotze is better, then he comes after those 3 imo