Manchester United vs Real Madrid discussion

The Franchise wrote:

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:

The Franchise wrote:



Yeah and if we do that we can talk about a couple other Man Utd pen calls, the Varane red in first leg and so on...

The red today was biggest decisions of them all to go the wrong way, 1 goal doesnt end the tie..but losing a player does.

Thats why its getting the most talk, naturally.

Hey I keep repeating that it wasn't a red. Yellow at best. But if people keep saying that this changed the match then that disallowed goal was equally important. Being 1-0 up mean that United would've to open up and try to score thus leaving room for the counter. And that's our game tbh.

If we're talking about one decision, why aren't we talking about the other?

Because the red is the most important one as I said.

Yes, you being 1-0 up means they have to open up. Thats true.

But Varane being sent off in the first leg, that game would of been different too and you might need even be in the position where 1 goal up today would be enough.

The point about this decisions is, it killed the game basically.

This is the problem, if you give a none call (like not giving a red to Varane, not giving a goal for Madrid) the game continues on even terms. Both are wrong, but the game continues on equal terms.

A wrong red is the worst decision of all, because it nearly always ends the game.

Pointless to be bring the first leg up. That match was over and no one was complaining.

You can't possibly say that the wrong decisions in this match were of an equivalent value than that of the first leg.

Lex wrote:Oh someone get out the violins for poor Nani and United

At least Man United showed class when they played 11 vs 11.Even when we played 10 vs 11 we had great opportunities to score and excellent atitude.

Arsenal looked like they were playing 7 vs 11 against Bayern.You (Arsenal and you as an Arsenal fan) make EPL look like shit.I hope this year Tottenham will get the UCL place.

Mourinho had 'cojones' and told the truth when he said that the better team lost.I believe that no other coach in the world would have done that.

CBarca wrote:

juveman17 wrote:

CBarca wrote:Not really "harsh" as much as "blatantly wrong".

For those who are saying "intent doesn't matter boohoo". Stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

He kicked him in straight in for the challenge. Its a 50-50 call to make depending on the situation. Was it harsh? Yes. Was it the wrong call? No. The ref had every right to make that call.

I have to wonder if the ref was doing his best Vermaelen performance by ball-watching. You're not supposed to watch the ball in the air (for obvious reasons), you're supposed to look at the players who will be challenging for it before the ball reaches them (again, for obvious reasons). Or at least the area of challenge.

If he had been looking at the players he surely would have seen Nani's eyes on the ball the whole time, his leg out to trap the ball like a player will do.

Those talking about intent, those talking about it being an obvious red. Please, please explain to me what Nani is supposed to do there.

There is a reason why that's not a red. You should be able to lift your leg up in this game without fear of a red.

Was De Jong's kick a red? Yes. He knew exactly what he was doing and he went in to hurt Alonso- that's not allowed. It's a red.

Nani was simply trying to trap a ball and he receives a red for it.

People in the US and around me specifically call "soccer" players "field fairies". It's a shame (for them, they miss out on such a good sport). But with calls like this being made, you have to wonder where exactly is the sport heading? No more tough challenges, and even accidental cases like this one are being given a red.

It's worrying.

ok then answer my last post in this thread

Not worth responding to.

How does someone kill another player the way Nani went to trap the ball?

Worthless talking about it.

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:

The Franchise wrote:



Yeah and if we do that we can talk about a couple other Man Utd pen calls, the Varane red in first leg and so on...

The red today was biggest decisions of them all to go the wrong way, 1 goal doesnt end the tie..but losing a player does.

Thats why its getting the most talk, naturally.

Hey I keep repeating that it wasn't a red. Yellow at best. But if people keep saying that this changed the match then that disallowed goal was equally important. Being 1-0 up mean that United would've to open up and try to score thus leaving room for the counter. And that's our game tbh.

If we're talking about one decision, why aren't we talking about the other?

Because the red is the most important one as I said.

Yes, you being 1-0 up means they have to open up. Thats true.

But Varane being sent off in the first leg, that game would of been different too and you might need even be in the position where 1 goal up today would be enough.

The point about this decisions is, it killed the game basically.

This is the problem, if you give a none call (like not giving a red to Varane, not giving a goal for Madrid) the game continues on even terms. Both are wrong, but the game continues on equal terms.

A wrong red is the worst decision of all, because it nearly always ends the game.

Pointless to be bring the first leg up. That match was over and no one was complaining.

You can't possibly say that the wrong decisions in this match were of an equivalent value than that of the first leg.

Noone was complaining? Really? I recall many Man UItd fans complaining...

Of course thats what im saying.

You saw today what happened when Man Utd lost a player..they were weakened hugely.

What do you think would of happened last game if Varane got sent off so early? You would have been equally weakened..maybe you lost by a 2, or 3 goal margin..who knows, its all hypothetical.

The point is, a blown non call isnt as bad as a wrong call made..and thats what happened here, which is why people are talking about injustice.

Every iffy call in qualification CL games are huge. I mean pepe got a bs red in CL semis against Barca in 2011... same with RVP at Arsenal. Man City got screwed and lost the game to Man U early in the season because of a bad call.

And btw, Higuain headed the ball right on Rafael's hand which was away from his body and protecting the net on the Varane header... that should have been a pk and another red.

Shat happens. Sometimes it works for you. Sometimes it works against you.

The big thing i've noticed is that, if you make a dangerous play that could lead to injury, you're going to get a red even if it's iffy. This has happened to Pepe and Ramos often. If you make a clean play on the ball and there's some contact, you rarely get a foul let alone a red.

That's just how the game is called.

I love how football makes people attack eachother like animals
Imo it was a 50/50 call

Haven't read the discussion on this thread yet and I've just finished watching the coverage. It was quite entertaining to watch as a neutral.

Some points from the game:

1. I thought Ferguson's tactics were spot on. Counter was working quite well up until the red card. Welbeck was impressive.

2. Ronaldo did nothing all game. Good run for his goal, but didn't have any impact on the rest of the match.

3. Kaka gave Madrid some spark and direction in attack. I thought he was good.

4. Contrary to what Martin Tyler and Niall Quinn thought when they were commentating the game, I am of the opinion that the referee was well within his rights to give that red card. On the face of it, it didn't look like a red card live (yellow at most). However, in the replays you can see that Nani is 2nd to the ball and puts his boot in studs up when he really shouldn't have. Did he have intent? No. Does intent matter? No. Similarly, some of you might reply to this and say that Nani didn't hit Arbeloa square on the chest, but that doesn't matter either (I think he hit him in the side). Bottom line is that any time one player puts his studs into the body of another player it is grounds for the offending player to be sent off.

5. Good subs by Mourinho. Took full advantage of the 11 v 10 situation by bringing on Modric and then solidified the defence by bringing on Pepe after going a goal up.

6. Nice strike by Modric, proving he isn't completely wasted at Madrid.

7. Should've been a penalty to Man U late in the game after Ramos clattered into Evra without even looking at the ball. Just swung his leg and hit the player. Not to mention Ramos' arms were all over Evra.

juveman17 wrote:
He kicked him in straight in for the challenge. Its a 50-50 call to make depending on the situation. Was it harsh? Yes. Was it the wrong call? No. The ref had every right to make that call.

I cannot stress this enough.

The thing many people don't understand, (and believe me, I get a lot of grief as a ref from people who don't understand the rules but want to complain anyway) is that something like this is up to the referee's discretion.

It literally says that in the rule book. Up to the referee's discretion.

Was it a harsh call? Somewhat.
Did it spoil what could've been a classic? Yes.
Do I wish it had gone the other way? Definitely.

But it was not as out of this world and idiotic as people here are insinuating. It was a 50/50 call, and I guarantee you some of the people that are most annoyed now would do the exact same thing in that situation.

I would give a yellow, just as I would give a yellow for Candreva's tackle on the weekend, or even De Jong's famous foul in the WC back in 2010.

But both those calls (one was a yellow and the other was a red) could have gone either way.

Again, the referee's discretion.

CBarca wrote:Not worth responding to.

How does someone kill another player the way Nani went to trap the ball?

Worthless talking about it.

kill is an obviously an exaggeration lol he could easily cause a Thoracic fracture to arbeloa or in general injure him really hard, thats what refs first priority should be, player's health, intention or not, dangerous play..

Come on Dani.... the isn't La Liga where you get a red for bad breath lol. There was no way that play on Varane in the first leg was getting called in CL. If it was a dangerous play that could lead to injury, yes. Otherwise, it's the game.

There are sooooooooooooooo many calls i can point to that went in favor of both Man U and barca over the recent years that i'm not even going to go there.

Shat happens. Man U is out. life's a biatch and so is karma.

It was offside at Utd's goal... so don't be so ruth.

sportsczy wrote:Like man u has never gotten an iffy call.

Like barca has never gotten an iffy call.

etc.

Karma is a biatch for teams who are used to getting bs calls and now have to be victims of them.

You forgot to mention Juventus.

Idiot wrote:

CBarca wrote:Not worth responding to.

How does someone kill another player the way Nani went to trap the ball?

Worthless talking about it.

kill is an obviously an exaggeration lol he could easily cause a Thoracic fracture to arbeloa or in general injure him really hard, thats what refs first priority should be, player's health, intention or not, dangerous play..

Anytime someone goes in for a tackle there is the risk of injury. Yet many tackles that could have injured someone are given yellows. Hell, there are tackles that have injured players, and they have been given yellows.

The game is played within reason.

What's your point, exactly?

If a leg had been broken, a lot of people's opinions in here would be different. Nani just happened to not hurt or maim anyone

#1 intent isn't in the rule book. The ref can't read minds. He taekwondo kicked someone in the chest PERIOD. A red isn't out of the question at all.

#2 Madrid had a goal wrongly disallowed


#3 A Rafael handball on the goal line was not called. Yet no one even mentions these things. As the biased British commentators whine about the red card.

#4

Magic Spray wrote:#1 intent isn't in the rule book. The ref can't read minds. He taekwondo kicked someone in the chest PERIOD. A red isn't out of the question at all.

#2 Madrid had a goal wrongly disallowed


#3 A Rafael handball on the goal line was not called. Yet no one even mentions these things. As the biased British commentators whine about the red card.

#4

This. Magic Spray

I thought the red was harsh and I was rooting for Madrid... but gotta say something.. Karma is a biitch.

edit: It wont embed...

You see the funny thing is intent is taken into account a lot and actually is in the rulebook.

Funny thing that.

Arquitecto , do you believe that Real Madrid was the better team and deserved to qualify in the quarted finals?

juveman17 wrote:

timzink wrote:

timzink wrote:I want United to go through as im an epl fan to go through but unfortunately I think Madrid will go through, they have too much quality not to . Manchester 1: Real 2

Can we please have some timzink love ? I was one of the few people that called it correctly . If you want to make an appreciation thread about me as well i wont stop you .






It was a red card, as roy keane said there doesnt have to be intent for a dangerous act to warrant a red card and tbh the team that had a better chance of winning the competition went through, fair result

thank you juveman !

So I can fly kick someone in the face trying to win the ball as long as my intention was to win the ball?

Just don't let Stoke know about this rule

Oh, yeah, I forgot about Madrid's disallowed goal. I thought that was super soft. I remember T. Silva had a header like that disallowed against Madrid in the CL a few years back.

CBarca wrote:

Idiot wrote:

CBarca wrote:Not worth responding to.

How does someone kill another player the way Nani went to trap the ball?

Worthless talking about it.

kill is an obviously an exaggeration lol he could easily cause a Thoracic fracture to arbeloa or in general injure him really hard, thats what refs first priority should be, player's health, intention or not, dangerous play..

Anytime someone goes in for a tackle there is the risk of injury. Yet many tackles that could have injured someone are given yellows. Hell, there are tackles that have injured players, and they have been given yellows.

The game is played within reason.

What's your point, exactly?

the difference in importance of 'just injure him' and 'injure him really hard'

he rised his foot on a level that can hit vulnerable areas of the human body,
thats why refs always stop the game when players rise their foot up in the air, up in the air you can hit head,chest etc..
now that it actually hit someone, there you go red.

we might as well find this the new trick, always avoid looking other players so you can freely rise your foot dangerously in the air wherever it is aiming, doesnt matter lol

Lex wrote:So I can fly kick someone in the face trying to win the ball as long as my intention was to win the ball?

Just don't let Stoke know about this rule

And let's not forget how disgraceful Man Utd was towards the referee:



Sir Alex angry reaction toward the referee.

But what is the topping of the cake is Ferdinands disgraceful behaviour:


And let's not forget that I'd rather have this pen and red card instead of a red card we got from the Nani incident:



Overall, the ref did right but Man U were the better team. They just didn't deserve to win it, becouse they deserved a red card and we were clearly the better team with 10 men.