God Thread, Pt. III

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Post by Adit Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:22 am

@bazinga wrote:

And such a thing is inherently flawed. Why is having faith in human abducting aliens a sign of insanity, but having faith in God considered socially acceptable? There has to be some logical basis behind it, and you're saying there is none, which makes the belief on par with other ridiculous beliefs.


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Post by Juveman17 Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:30 pm

@bazinga wrote:
@juveman17 wrote:
@bazinga wrote:I don't know, it does seem rather stupid to believe in and fight wars in the name of something that hasn't been proven to exist.

The good thing about proof is that something that is proven exists, whether or not you have faith in it. You might not have faith in gravity, but you won't float away, because it exists. You might have faith in a hypothetical being that will answer your prayers, but praying is not going to get you anywhere. Only attempting action is.



Since when does believing in god have to do with justifying religious warfare? And its already clear that religion is meant to be based on faith alone, not scientific proofs.

And such a thing is inherently flawed. Why is having faith in human abducting aliens a sign of insanity, but having faith in God considered socially acceptable? There has to be some logical basis behind it, and you're saying there is none, which makes the belief on par with other ridiculous beliefs.

Well how can a world with a massive universe, many different laws, many different elements all be created out of a random bang? It make no sense to think that gravity and inertia were just randomly formed. While atheists point to evolution, it does NOT explain why all the universe just sparked into a bang randomly and created the whole universe.
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Post by bazinga Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:45 pm

@juveman17 wrote:
@bazinga wrote:
@juveman17 wrote:

Since when does believing in god have to do with justifying religious warfare? And its already clear that religion is meant to be based on faith alone, not scientific proofs.

And such a thing is inherently flawed. Why is having faith in human abducting aliens a sign of insanity, but having faith in God considered socially acceptable? There has to be some logical basis behind it, and you're saying there is none, which makes the belief on par with other ridiculous beliefs.

Well how can a world with a massive universe, many different laws, many different elements all be created out of a random bang? It make no sense to think that gravity and inertia were just randomly formed. While atheists point to evolution, it does NOT explain why all the universe just sparked into a bang randomly and created the whole universe.

And we will, instead of sitting and praising an unknown and probably non existent creator, attempt to answer those questions.
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Post by Juveman17 Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:23 pm

@bazinga wrote:
@juveman17 wrote:
@bazinga wrote:

And such a thing is inherently flawed. Why is having faith in human abducting aliens a sign of insanity, but having faith in God considered socially acceptable? There has to be some logical basis behind it, and you're saying there is none, which makes the belief on par with other ridiculous beliefs.

Well how can a world with a massive universe, many different laws, many different elements all be created out of a random bang? It make no sense to think that gravity and inertia were just randomly formed. While atheists point to evolution, it does NOT explain why all the universe just sparked into a bang randomly and created the whole universe.

And we will, instead of sitting and praising an unknown and probably non existent creator, attempt to answer those questions.

You cannot prove that god does not exist. And isn't that what we are both trying to do? Explain the reason for why we are here and why this all exists.

And get yourself off that high chair of yours and realize that your atheism does not make you any more intelligent than another human who believes in a God. We are all trying to do the same thing here.
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Post by bazinga Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:31 pm

@juveman17 wrote:
@bazinga wrote:
@juveman17 wrote:

Well how can a world with a massive universe, many different laws, many different elements all be created out of a random bang? It make no sense to think that gravity and inertia were just randomly formed. While atheists point to evolution, it does NOT explain why all the universe just sparked into a bang randomly and created the whole universe.

And we will, instead of sitting and praising an unknown and probably non existent creator, attempt to answer those questions.

You cannot prove that god does not exist. And isn't that what we are both trying to do? Explain the reason for why we are here and why this all exists.

And get yourself off that high chair of yours and realize that your atheism does not make you any more intelligent than another human who believes in a God. We are all trying to do the same thing here.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. If I say unicorns exist, I had better make a legitimate case for that, rather than saying,"They exist because you can't prove they don't."

And I don't see where I implied anything about my intelligence or mental capacity here. I'm just saying - science will eventually find the answers to the questions you listed above. And it is likely that the answers will be found by people who, instead of giving up and attributing everything to some non existent deity, actually venture out, break the status quo, and struggle on the behalf of the human race.

There are a lot of historical examples. The pocket of how much we don't know grows smaller and smaller.

As Neil Degrasse Tyson says: "Does it mean, if you don’t understand something, and the community of physicists don’t understand it, that means God did it? Is that how you want to play this game? Because if it is, here’s a list of things in the past that the physicists at the time didn’t understand [and now we do understand] [...]. If that’s how you want to invoke your evidence for God, then God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on - so just be ready for that to happen, if that’s how you want to come at the problem."
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Post by Juveman17 Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:40 pm

@bazinga wrote:
@juveman17 wrote:
@bazinga wrote:

And we will, instead of sitting and praising an unknown and probably non existent creator, attempt to answer those questions.

You cannot prove that god does not exist. And isn't that what we are both trying to do? Explain the reason for why we are here and why this all exists.

And get yourself off that high chair of yours and realize that your atheism does not make you any more intelligent than another human who believes in a God. We are all trying to do the same thing here.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. If I say unicorns exist, I had better make a legitimate case for that, rather than saying,"They exist because you can't prove they don't."

And I don't see where I implied anything about my intelligence or mental capacity here. I'm just saying - science will eventually find the answers to the questions you listed above. And it is likely that the answers will be found by people who, instead of giving up and attributing everything to some non existent deity, actually venture out, break the status quo, and struggle on the behalf of the human race.

There are a lot of historical examples. The pocket of how much we don't know grows smaller and smaller.

As Neil Degrasse Tyson says: "Does it mean, if you don’t understand something, and the community of physicists don’t understand it, that means God did it? Is that how you want to play this game? Because if it is, here’s a list of things in the past that the physicists at the time didn’t understand [and now we do understand] [...]. If that’s how you want to invoke your evidence for God, then God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on - so just be ready for that to happen, if that’s how you want to come at the problem."

Well its obvious that you cannot prove or disprove an outer wordly being scientifically. This will most like never happen unless we somehow manage to leave this universe and god ot another one? scratch

And how are we "giving up" on anything by believing in god? You act like by not believing you are on the front lines of a war or something Laughing

Once again, there is a major flaw in atheism that says "All of this happened for no reason what so ever." It makes much more reasonable sense to say a God created this world then to say this all came from nothing and then this law was created fro no reason, and then all these planets formed for no reason and we are here on Earth for no reason.

And yes, scientific advancements are always positive, most of which have nothing to do with God or Atheism. The only scientific advancements that can help us disprove or approve god is a space ship that can take us to an outer-worldly place. It will be a long long time until we can actually fully explore the universe.
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Post by bazinga Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:44 pm

If you say that you cannot explain something, then sit down and forget about it, that counts as giving up. Few push the boundaries and actually understand it, thus contributing to the increase of human understanding.

Many scientists were staunchly religious. I won't deny that. Science and religion are definitely definitely not mutually exclusive. If you think I'm implying that, I'm not. However, saying that because we cannot explain something RIGHT NOW, God did it, is inconsistent with scientific method. Something that is claimed NEEDS to be proved to be believed.
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Post by Juveman17 Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:48 pm

@bazinga wrote:If you say that you cannot explain something, then sit down and forget about it, that counts as giving up. Few push the boundaries and actually understand it, thus contributing to the increase of human understanding.

Many scientists were staunchly religious. I won't deny that. Science and religion are definitely definitely not mutually exclusive. If you think I'm implying that, I'm not. However, saying that because we cannot explain something RIGHT NOW, God did it, is inconsistent with scientific method. Something that is claimed NEEDS to be proved to be believed.
\

This is where we come back in a circle. The whole point and basis of religion is on faith and faith alone, not the scientific method.

There is a difference between pushing human boundaries in life and saying God does not exist because all of this came from nothing. The whole thing that keeps me away from atheism is this idea that there is no reason behind any of this for happening.

Pushing boundaries would be stem cell research, modern physics, chemistry and biology. It all tries to improve the human condition. It has nothing to do with disproving god.
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Post by bazinga Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:53 pm

@juveman17 wrote:
@bazinga wrote:If you say that you cannot explain something, then sit down and forget about it, that counts as giving up. Few push the boundaries and actually understand it, thus contributing to the increase of human understanding.

Many scientists were staunchly religious. I won't deny that. Science and religion are definitely definitely not mutually exclusive. If you think I'm implying that, I'm not. However, saying that because we cannot explain something RIGHT NOW, God did it, is inconsistent with scientific method. Something that is claimed NEEDS to be proved to be believed.
\

This is where we come back in a circle. The whole point and basis of religion is on faith and faith alone, not the scientific method.

There is a difference between pushing human boundaries in life and saying God does not exist because all of this came from nothing. The whole thing that keeps me away from atheism is this idea that there is no reason behind any of this for happening.

Pushing boundaries would be stem cell research, modern physics, chemistry and biology. It all tries to improve the human condition. It has nothing to do with disproving god.

Nobody's primary task is disproving God, because only something that is proven even needs to be disproved. The fact that God is logically inconsistent with everything we know so far is enough for me for now. Faith based reasoning is extremely weak.

I don't think "there is no reason behind anything" is considered a logical assertion in scientific thought. There is a reason, we just don't know it yet. Maybe there is an infinite loop of big bangs and big crunches? We don't know yet. But sooner or later, I'm sure we, as a species, will find out. And when we do, there will be no place for a Creator.
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Post by rwo power Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:58 pm

@juveman17 wrote:Once again, there is a major flaw in atheism that says "All of this happened for no reason what so ever." It makes much more reasonable sense to say a God created this world then to say this all came from nothing and then this law was created fro no reason, and then all these planets formed for no reason and we are here on Earth for no reason.
Actually the only question is "Where did the big bang come from?".

Everything else after that can be explained by simple random 'trial and error' of the universe. We were just lucky as the laws that support this universe supported us, too.

The multiverse hypothesis supports that there are uncountable other universes that are ruled by other laws, but we are only able to exist in this universe and thus it seems as if the rules were specifically made for us, but it was more that due to the rules underlying this universe we developed in the form we are currently.
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Post by Juveman17 Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:13 pm

Well if the Big Bang was the point of the creation by God, then the rest of the processes such as Evolution would all have to stem from an intelligent creator no?
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Post by rwo power Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:53 pm

Well, we go in circles again. If you say god caused the big bang, I will ask "and who created god?"

As Occam's razor says that something simple is always to prefer to something complicated with all other circumstances the same, then some random bang from nowhere is preferable to a complex sentient omniscient omnipotent being as point of origin.
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Post by zizzle Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:25 pm

meh, we all believe in the unknown. It's what we should call it that we argue about
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Post by Juveman17 Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:20 pm

I have no clue who created god so this is where no one has any clue. Pretty much where this discussion ends Smile
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Post by Lupi Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:09 pm

:coffee: for me its not matter of god existence , i search religions to figure how to thank him because i know however i proceed is still not enough . Its the love , you never question if your love girl/boy exist you just Love them . I love god like that
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:11 pm

@juveman17 wrote:Well if the Big Bang was the point of the creation by God, then the rest of the processes such as Evolution would all have to stem from an intelligent creator no?

wat

why?
This doesn't even make any sense logically, even if you believe in god.
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Post by Juveman17 Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:21 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:
@juveman17 wrote:Well if the Big Bang was the point of the creation by God, then the rest of the processes such as Evolution would all have to stem from an intelligent creator no?

wat

why?
This doesn't even make any sense logically, even if you believe in god.

If God created the world then how would all of these different processes come about? At random?
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Post by bazinga Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:04 am

@juveman17 wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:
@juveman17 wrote:Well if the Big Bang was the point of the creation by God, then the rest of the processes such as Evolution would all have to stem from an intelligent creator no?

wat

why?
This doesn't even make any sense logically, even if you believe in god.

If God created the world then how would all of these different processes come about? At random?

Who created God?
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Post by Juveman17 Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:10 am

@bazinga wrote:
@juveman17 wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:

wat

why?
This doesn't even make any sense logically, even if you believe in god.

If God created the world then how would all of these different processes come about? At random?

Who created God?

Nobody knows so according to the Bible he created everything and nothing existed before him.
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Post by RealGunner Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:29 am

lol cmon guys, thread was dead for a month. leave it like that
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Post by The Sanchez Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:38 am

@DeviAngel wrote:I believe in God and I respect god. BUT in what I don't believe is priests because they take money for prayers for service for funeral and etc. Jesus himself was angry and started demolishing things in front of the church saying that they've turned the 'home of God' into a marketplace that explains a lot. Plus the church during the history kept the power at all costs, killed people and made foolish things and statements like the world is a plate on whale's back and so on ....

so I believe in God, I love god but I don't believe in church as institution and in priests however I respect the church as temple as God's home...


P.S. I respect atheists and every religion

Agree with this.
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Post by Juveman17 Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:14 am

The Church also funds schools, hospitals, and shelters that help the poor and keep people alive.
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Post by The Sanchez Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:30 am

@juveman17 wrote:The Church also funds schools, hospitals, and shelters that help the poor and keep people alive.

Because its what Jesus would have done and what its instructed in the bible. Plus its a way of how Christians can show their godly behaviour to bring new non Christians to Jesus.
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Post by Adit Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:44 am

@bazinga wrote:
@juveman17 wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:

wat

why?
This doesn't even make any sense logically, even if you believe in god.

If God created the world then how would all of these different processes come about? At random?

Who created God?

Man Laughing
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Post by VivaStPauli Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:49 am

@juveman17 wrote:The Church also funds schools, hospitals, and shelters that help the poor and keep people alive.

So does the government, and I don't worship them, even though they do a better job at all three of those things. And that still doesn't mean the government knows how the universe was created.
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Post by bazinga Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:47 pm

@Adit wrote:
@bazinga wrote:
@juveman17 wrote:

If God created the world then how would all of these different processes come about? At random?

Who created God?

Man Laughing

Seriously!

They keep talking about "before the Big Bang," but they still don't have any answer to "before God."

I'm done here.
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