Guti tells it like it is...

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Post by Nirgal Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:30 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:
Nirgal wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:CDR final
Tottenham CL quarter final
CL Lyon round of 16
Against ac milan ( wasnt bad)
this is just with madrid also.
I guess I shouldn't post his MU games.

Seriously, with all due respect to messi, he has the best midfield in the world.1/4 of his goals are from quick 1-2s and I doubt xabi alonso or di maria would follow up with ronaldo on those, for example.

Honestly think that Xabi, Di maria, Benzema, Ozil cannot do good 1-2? Are you serious?
Dude, watch some of our games for a change. Di maria is the slowest decision maker in the world, he takes FOREVER to pass. Benzema probably will understand ronaldo on a 1-2, xabi alonso is too slow.

I've watched di maria since he was in rosario central. He, Xabi, Benzema and ozil are perfectly able to play 1-2s. The thing is that ronaldo actually has to try them instead of always trying to outpace defenders.

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Post by Guiltybystander Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:38 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:
Nirgal wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:CDR final
Tottenham CL quarter final
CL Lyon round of 16
Against ac milan ( wasnt bad)
this is just with madrid also.
I guess I shouldn't post his MU games.

Seriously, with all due respect to messi, he has the best midfield in the world.1/4 of his goals are from quick 1-2s and I doubt xabi alonso or di maria would follow up with ronaldo on those, for example.

Honestly think that Xabi, Di maria, Benzema, Ozil cannot do good 1-2? Are you serious?
Dude, watch some of our games for a change. Di maria is the slowest decision maker in the world, he takes FOREVER to pass. Benzema probably will understand ronaldo on a 1-2, xabi alonso is too slow.

lol. Did you know that Ronaldo has attempted more shots on goal than the next 5 for Madrid combined? Trust me, he gets his support.
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Post by guest7 Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:39 pm

+50 of his shots are from freekicks also, so its abit less.
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Post by EarlyPrototype Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:40 pm

Di maria is not good at 1-2s bro.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:41 pm

Guiltybystander wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:
Nirgal wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:CDR final
Tottenham CL quarter final
CL Lyon round of 16
Against ac milan ( wasnt bad)
this is just with madrid also.
I guess I shouldn't post his MU games.

Seriously, with all due respect to messi, he has the best midfield in the world.1/4 of his goals are from quick 1-2s and I doubt xabi alonso or di maria would follow up with ronaldo on those, for example.

Honestly think that Xabi, Di maria, Benzema, Ozil cannot do good 1-2? Are you serious?
Dude, watch some of our games for a change. Di maria is the slowest decision maker in the world, he takes FOREVER to pass. Benzema probably will understand ronaldo on a 1-2, xabi alonso is too slow.

lol. Did you know that Ronaldo has attempted more shots on goal than the next 5 for Madrid combined? Trust me, he gets his support.

honestly being a big game flop is not about how you do against big name clubs, its about how you do when your team is not dominating the game. messi has never been subject to that except with argentina. Kaka is the best example of a big game player.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:42 pm

EarlyPrototype wrote:Di maria is not good at 1-2s bro.

have u ever seen him play as left winger?
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Post by Guiltybystander Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:43 pm


by omarish Today at 9:39 pm

+
----
-
+50 of his shots are from freekicks also, so its abit less.


Well, but still.

It is ridiculous to say that Messi only scores because of his great support.
Madrid generally probably has more shots on target per match than Barcelona, they play a way more direct game, and there is lots of opportunity in the front.


Anyway, I wasn't talking about him being a big game player or not. I was talking about his support.


Last edited by Guiltybystander on Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by EarlyPrototype Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:43 pm

Messi always plays on the team that has 70 percent possession all the time and he strikes down a team that has been worn out from chasing Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets passing game.
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Post by Turok_TTZ Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:45 pm

[quote="Yuri Yukuv"][quote="Guiltybystander"][quote="Giggity5313"][quote="Nirgal"]
Giggity5313 wrote: Kaka is the best example of a big game player.

In real madrid? Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o
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Post by Guiltybystander Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:45 pm

[quote="Turok_TTZ"][quote="Yuri Yukuv"][quote="Guiltybystander"][quote="Giggity5313"]
Nirgal wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote: Kaka is the best example of a big game player.

In real madrid? Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o

Fail.
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Post by EarlyPrototype Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:46 pm

Well he did own Barca last year at Camp Nou despite not being at his best.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:48 pm

Guiltybystander wrote:
by omarish Today at 9:39 pm

+
----
-
+50 of his shots are from freekicks also, so its abit less.


Well, but still.

It is ridiculous to say that Messi only scores because of his great support.
Madrid generally probably has more shots on target per match than Barcelona, they play a way more direct game, and there is lots of opportunity in the front.


Anyway, I wasn't talking about him being a big game player or not. I was talking about his support.

Yeah, thats why he is all time pichichi. Just saying, messi never faced a stronger team with barca so we cant really say he isnt a big game player when he flops in his nt. its not like ronaldo flops in front of lyon, valenica, vilareal, atletico, tottenham, sevilla or the bunch. He actually scored more on the top 6 of la liga than the rest combined.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:48 pm

[quote="Turok_TTZ"][quote="Yuri Yukuv"][quote="Guiltybystander"][quote="Giggity5313"]
Nirgal wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote: Kaka is the best example of a big game player.

In real madrid? Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o

When he wasnt injured he owned barcelona.
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Post by Nirgal Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:50 pm

EarlyPrototype wrote:Messi always plays on the team that has 70 percent possession all the time and he strikes down a team that has been worn out from chasing Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets passing game.

Possession isn't everything. A lot of that possession is near the Barca goal and doesn't translates in goal scoring oportunities. Shots taken is a much more useful indicative of goal opportunities although that may be distorted by the disntance at which the shot is taken.
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Post by Nirgal Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:51 pm

Yuri Yukuv wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:
by omarish Today at 9:39 pm

+
----
-
+50 of his shots are from freekicks also, so its abit less.


Well, but still.

It is ridiculous to say that Messi only scores because of his great support.
Madrid generally probably has more shots on target per match than Barcelona, they play a way more direct game, and there is lots of opportunity in the front.


Anyway, I wasn't talking about him being a big game player or not. I was talking about his support.

Yeah, thats why he is all time pichichi. Just saying, messi never faced a stronger team with barca so we cant really say he isnt a big game player when he flops in his nt. its not like ronaldo flops in front of lyon, valenica, vilareal, atletico, tottenham, sevilla or the bunch. He actually scored more on the top 6 of la liga than the rest combined.

The flopping at national team is a complete overstatement. I would say, as an argentine, that it's been a while since I don't see a match of Argentina in which Messi is not our best player.
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Post by Guiltybystander Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:53 pm

Yuri Yukuv wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:
by omarish Today at 9:39 pm

+
----
-
+50 of his shots are from freekicks also, so its abit less.


Well, but still.

It is ridiculous to say that Messi only scores because of his great support.
Madrid generally probably has more shots on target per match than Barcelona, they play a way more direct game, and there is lots of opportunity in the front.


Anyway, I wasn't talking about him being a big game player or not. I was talking about his support.

Yeah, thats why he is all time pichichi. Just saying, messi never faced a stronger team with barca so we cant really say he isnt a big game player when he flops in his nt. its not like ronaldo flops in front of lyon, valenica, vilareal, atletico, tottenham, sevilla or the bunch. He actually scored more on the top 6 of la liga than the rest combined.

Oh but I agree with you - I never said that Ronaldo bottles in big matches. My point was more a compliment to both Messi and Madrid, than an insult to CR. I just meant that Messi is obviously great, regardless of his support (indeed, we don't know how it would be if he played for a team that was actually often the underdog, but he has been great for Argentina too) and that Ronaldo doesn't score despite all odds, but has an amazing support system behind him. That doesn't diminish the value of his world record, imo.
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Post by izzy Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:53 pm

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

honestly being a big game flop is not about how you do against big name clubs, its about how you do when your team is not dominating the game. messi has never been subject to that except with argentina. Kaka is the best example of a big game player.

That right there is 100% truth.

That defines who a big game player is.
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Post by EarlyPrototype Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:54 pm

Yuri Yukuv wrote:
EarlyPrototype wrote:Di maria is not good at 1-2s bro.

have u ever seen him play as left winger?

Yeh I have he has rare moments like the one vs Barca but he is inconsistent and he is not really a good passer.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:54 pm

Nirgal wrote:
Yuri Yukuv wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:
by omarish Today at 9:39 pm

+
----
-
+50 of his shots are from freekicks also, so its abit less.


Well, but still.

It is ridiculous to say that Messi only scores because of his great support.
Madrid generally probably has more shots on target per match than Barcelona, they play a way more direct game, and there is lots of opportunity in the front.


Anyway, I wasn't talking about him being a big game player or not. I was talking about his support.

Yeah, thats why he is all time pichichi. Just saying, messi never faced a stronger team with barca so we cant really say he isnt a big game player when he flops in his nt. its not like ronaldo flops in front of lyon, valenica, vilareal, atletico, tottenham, sevilla or the bunch. He actually scored more on the top 6 of la liga than the rest combined.

The flopping at national team is a complete overstatement. I would say, as an argentine, that it's been a while since I don't see a match of Argentina in which Messi is not our best player.

Thats not what a big game player is about, its about being able to turn the tide of the game.

Something like what kaka and zidane used to do.
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Post by Turok_TTZ Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:55 pm

[quote="Yuri Yukuv"][quote="Turok_TTZ"][quote="Yuri Yukuv"][quote="Guiltybystander"]
Giggity5313 wrote:
Nirgal wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote: Kaka is the best example of a big game player.

In real madrid? Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o

When he wasnt injured he owned barcelona.

I dont remember this. at all. what match?
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Post by EarlyPrototype Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:56 pm

[quote="Turok_TTZ"][quote="Yuri Yukuv"][quote="Turok_TTZ"][quote="Yuri Yukuv"]
Guiltybystander wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:
Nirgal wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote: Kaka is the best example of a big game player.

In real madrid? Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o

When he wasnt injured he owned barcelona.

I dont remember this. at all. what match?

Kakas first season and first game vs Barca the one where we lost 1-0 even though I thought we should have won that match.
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Post by Nirgal Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:57 pm

Yuri Yukuv wrote:
Nirgal wrote:
Yuri Yukuv wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:
by omarish Today at 9:39 pm

+
----
-
+50 of his shots are from freekicks also, so its abit less.


Well, but still.

It is ridiculous to say that Messi only scores because of his great support.
Madrid generally probably has more shots on target per match than Barcelona, they play a way more direct game, and there is lots of opportunity in the front.


Anyway, I wasn't talking about him being a big game player or not. I was talking about his support.

Yeah, thats why he is all time pichichi. Just saying, messi never faced a stronger team with barca so we cant really say he isnt a big game player when he flops in his nt. its not like ronaldo flops in front of lyon, valenica, vilareal, atletico, tottenham, sevilla or the bunch. He actually scored more on the top 6 of la liga than the rest combined.

The flopping at national team is a complete overstatement. I would say, as an argentine, that it's been a while since I don't see a match of Argentina in which Messi is not our best player.

Thats not what a big game player is about, its about being able to turn the tide of the game.

You mean he can actually be our best player pretty much all the time but if the team looses because the rival is vastly superior he flopped...

Shocked
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Post by Doc Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:57 pm

Guti wasn't much of a big game player himself so it probably suggests it takes one to know one I suppose...
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Post by Turok_TTZ Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:02 pm

[quote="EarlyPrototype"][quote="Turok_TTZ"][quote="Yuri Yukuv"][quote="Turok_TTZ"]
Yuri Yukuv wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:
Nirgal wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote: Kaka is the best example of a big game player.

In real madrid? Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o Guti tells it like it is... - Page 2 Zo6s7o

When he wasnt injured he owned barcelona.

I dont remember this. at all. what match?

Kakas first season and first game vs Barca the one where we lost 1-0 even though I thought we should have won that match.

1 1/2 years ago is 1 1/2 years ago. can he do it currently? nope.if we gonna use the basis from that time benz is shit, ramos @ rb>cb, marcelo needs replacing fast, we do sexy or bust football.

things are very different now. benz is great, ramos cb > rb, Marcelo ftw @ lb, counter attacking football.

see wut i mean?


Last edited by Turok_TTZ on Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:02 pm

Nirgal wrote:
Yuri Yukuv wrote:
Nirgal wrote:
Yuri Yukuv wrote:
Guiltybystander wrote:
by omarish Today at 9:39 pm

+
----
-
+50 of his shots are from freekicks also, so its abit less.


Well, but still.

It is ridiculous to say that Messi only scores because of his great support.
Madrid generally probably has more shots on target per match than Barcelona, they play a way more direct game, and there is lots of opportunity in the front.


Anyway, I wasn't talking about him being a big game player or not. I was talking about his support.

Yeah, thats why he is all time pichichi. Just saying, messi never faced a stronger team with barca so we cant really say he isnt a big game player when he flops in his nt. its not like ronaldo flops in front of lyon, valenica, vilareal, atletico, tottenham, sevilla or the bunch. He actually scored more on the top 6 of la liga than the rest combined.

The flopping at national team is a complete overstatement. I would say, as an argentine, that it's been a while since I don't see a match of Argentina in which Messi is not our best player.

Thats not what a big game player is about, its about being able to turn the tide of the game.

You mean he can actually be our best player pretty much all the time but if the team looses because the rival is vastly superior he flopped...

Shocked

That means he isnt a big game player, not one of those men in history that creates magic in a moment of desperation a la zidane or kaka.

Ronaldo is often the best player even when his team looses, but he just is unable to influence the game enough. Same with messi. Most probably because ronaldo cant deal with tight markers while messi is a far cry from being able to shine in a counter attacking system.
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Post by buddytaller Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:06 pm

RedEyesWhiteBeard wrote:if anyone actually has watch ronaldo over the past years, you would know that he is a big game flop. in all the times he has faced the top four in the epl he has flopped bad.

Does that include Arsenal? Because I remember him raping them on a regular basis.
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