Roberto Baggio vs Lionel Messi

No one dribbles past defenders and goalkeepers like Baggio does. Baggio is an artist, and let's not forget that he was cursed by a very serious injury which put his career on the line.

Baggio scores all these goals you watch whilst under the effect of pain or pain-killers, i believe he suffered from Rheumatoid Arthritis, he was always playing but in pain. The reason he retired was because his body and knees couldnt take it any more. He once said in an interview that he would love to continue playing football but his body wont allow him.

And that's the only reason we are comparing messi and maradona to such a great legend because if it werent for an unfortunate injury he would have destroyed them both together.

Baggio played and scored against the best goalkeepers and defenders in the world and perhaps in the history of the game.

messi plays and scores against teams that concede an average of 8 goals every game and he plays for arguably the best team in the history along the likes of xavi and iniesta.

Football is more than just dribbling. Because of all his health problems and more, i think baggio is the most instinctive player and with the highest football IQ score.

if he really was that great people would put him at least in top-20 of all time. he is almost forgotten player.
and if defences were better they would not give so much space to baggio. messi would dribble even fans at the stands if he got the space that baggio had.

Messi makes teams to park the bust against them, baggio just enjoys his time in free spaces..Why to park the bus against Baggio? actually there was any bus at that time? :bball:

the only reason he is "forgotten" is because ramos took possession of his body in july 17 1994

lol, what a troll, he scored a corner kick at 5:33.
The ball never felt beautiful until it was touched by the feet of this legend.

billionmillion wrote:and if defences were better they would not give so much space to baggio. messi would dribble even fans at the stands if he got the space that baggio had.

Messi makes teams to park the bust against them, baggio just enjoys his time in free spaces..Why to park the bus against Baggio? actually there was any bus at that time? :bball:

That's the secret and strength of Baggio in my opinion. He used the technique and strength of his enemies to his advantage, the stronger and more compact the defense is, the harder they fall.

It's something i have never seen in my life and it's strange. He makes dribbling and scoring look so easy, but in reality it's far from being that.

Messi is good, i like him and i think he's one of the top 10 in the world, and by the time he retires he might make it top 5 but baggio was more complete.

Baggio's videos looks great but i think he is slower version of messi. he doesnt work as fast as messi. defenders are so dumb in baggio's clips. they just stand there and baggio dribbles them. lazy defenders...today nobody gives you chance to move in the box. his dribbling vs napoli is a joke, he goes past 3 players and all those players just follow him walking. really you can not compare today's fast football to past slow football

Actually he was the victim of his best technique, drawing the defenders and opposition closer to him, fooling them into thinking that the ball is within reach only to make that last extra step and a half and dribble past them. He got fouled and injured eventually.

I love the look on the faces of the GK when he scores those free-kicks. There's a vid which i have been looking for for the past two days, i just cant find, anyway here's a good one

Quite obvious some people haven't watched Baggio here Youtube compilations do not do justice to any player even if it is Sulley Muntari.

Baggio is a fruity drink that I drink

braylann wrote:Baggio is a fruity drink that I drink

I used to love Cipoletti, but I haven't been able to find them for years, I think Baggio bought them

alexjanosik wrote:

juventus101 wrote:I actually watched the game live. Baggio outplayed Maradona in pretty much every time they faced each other. One game Maradons did better, good for him. Pretty much every time Baggio won that personal battle. And Baggio is better than Messi. Messi breaks goalscoring records, but thats not what Baggio was about. He was just as much, if not more, about creating as he was about scoring. And as i said before, the only experts claiming Messi is the greatest ever are Barcelona players and Maradona. And i will use Messis international failures against him. Baggios 94 Italy team was far weaker than Messis 2010 Argentina team, AND in my opinion the competition was tougher for Baggio yet he still carried that mediocre Italy team to the final. During the WCs Baggio has never let his Italy get outscored in open play. Only knocked out on PKs every time. Baggio > Maradona >/= Messi.

Its amazing the lengths people will go to to discredit Messi.
Claiming Italy 94 was far weaker than Argentina 2010.
Unless you backtrack son I am going to start the following threads.
Gabriel Milito>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Francco Baresi
Gabriel Heinze>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Paolo Maldini
Samuel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Costacurta
Gutierrez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mauro Tassotti
I am sure according to Mr Clueless the Italy defense with GOATS in all positions is far far worse than the great great Argentinian defense marshalled by Heinze and Milito.
Ofcourse its also painfully obvious that the one man midfield which Argentina played in the WC of Mascherano is far far greater than Italy's midfield.
I am sure the Masch alone is thrice as good as a midfield of Albertini,Dino Baggio and Donadini.

NTM the greatest coach of all time Diego Maradona up against the bumbling novice,Sacchi.


What chance does poor Sacchi have up against the footballing intelligence of Maradona.

Do people actually read before they post such nonsense.

Did you actually watch the WC as i did, or did you look it up the squad somewhere? Maldini was very young and not all that great just yet. Baresi was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy past it. Costacurta, like Baggio, was fighting through an injury. It was all on Dino and Roby.

Whoever was in the squad, Argentina '10 was a mess tactically. You can't win matches if you employ naive tactics, something which Italians will never do i think.

I have a question for you guys. Have you EVER played soccer? The first thing they teach you about defending is " DONT DIVE IN". Thats exactly what defenders do nowadays. Not saying Messi wouldnt skin them anyways, but saying the defenders back in the 90s were lazy or bad because they didnt dive in just shows you know nothing about actually playing soccer. And they didnt park the bus because back then the league wasnt a two horse race in Italy like it is in Spain jow and the CL (European cup back then) was much more balanced as well.

And please stop telling me im delusional when youre basing your arguments off of youtube videos. And as i said earlier, you dont think in the 90s the same thing was being said about Baggio? And forgotten player? Us that why fifa conducted a recent internet poll and he was voted the 4th best player ever?

Messis slightly faster than him and is a better close range finisher. But Baggio bad better technique in long range shooting (side foot curling shots), bstter dribbling, better decision making, a better creator, etc.

juventus101 wrote:Pele is overrated in my opinion. He revolutized soccer in a great way, and won a World Cup at the ahe of 19, but the defenses he played against were absolutely awful against that flair dribbling cuz theyve never seen it before, so it worked. Nowadays it would still work, but not to the extent it worked 50 years ago when Pele was in his prime. Baggio is better than Pele in my opinion. And Maradona? Well Baggio, with a weaker Fiorentina team, beat Maradona, with Maradona having a stronger Napoli team. And Baggio did it pretty much single handidly. Something that shouldnt be forgotten. And Maradona was past his prime, yes, but hadnt declined much by that point yet.

Baggio is the best player ever, and was recently voted the 4th best of all time by some list (forget which one, ill find out later). Messi, Baggio, Pele, and Maradona are all on the same level (Beckenbauer too), but Baggio is the best in my opinion.

If you guys watched Baggio in his prime as i did, you would understand. But im not gonna use that kind of reasoning cuz itll get this nowhere. But Baggio is the besy ever player. Messis up there too though as i said before, though i think id put Maradona and Beckenbauer above him too. I think Baggio is the best, while Messi is still stuck on 5th until he does :albino:something with the National Team in my opinion. At club level though an argument could be made for him against Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, and Baggio though in my opinion, but Baggio is still number 1. Then the other 4 is a tossup.

Did Baggio perform as consistently as Messi . were baggio able to do what messi has been doing for 5 years . This guy is not only a genius : he scores an insanely amount of goals. he is genuis + efficiency
Baggio was great , for what i know, he has momments of genius but i don't think he is close to messi. For one game he may be better as well as Kaka could be better than zidane for a short period but overall you can't say baggio is better than leo
he is your hero , i respect that though

Youre absolutely right that tactically and coaching was the only thing Italy had over Argentina (besides Baggio and Dino), but they even failed in the Copa America. Honestly, thats just BAD. Plus, tactically or not, when yiure the main star of the attack, and you bave Lavezzi, Aguero, Tevez, Higuian, and Di Maria supporting you, you should do big things. But Messi himself, just like his team Argentina, did not do shit.

And Baggio was extremely consistent. He didnt score as much as Messi but as i said the competition was also alot better so hthere were no 7-0 scorelines where Baggio gets hat trick after hat trick because of shit defenses. Messi is also a better close range finisher as i also admitted, but besides that and a slight edge in speed, Baggio takes the cake. Baggio was alsi creating all game long, every game. Very, very consistent player.

juventus101 wrote:Youre absolutely right that tactically and coaching was the only thing Italy had over Argentina (besides Baggio and Dino), but they even failed in the Copa America. Honestly, thats just BAD. Plus, tactically or not, when yiure the main star of the attack, and you bave Lavezzi, Aguero, Tevez, Higuian, and Di Maria supporting you, you should do big things. But Messi himself, just like his team Argentina, did not do shit.

And Baggio was extremely consistent. He didnt score as much as Messi but as i said the competition was also alot better so hthere were no 7-0 scorelines where Baggio gets hat trick after hat trick because of shit defenses. Messi is also a better close range finisher as i also admitted, but besides that and a slight edge in speed, Baggio takes the cake. Baggio was alsi creating all game long, every game. Very, very consistent player.

But Messi was not playing as a striker. He would drop deep all the time to collect the ball. So Messi was not being supported by the players you mentioned, he was supporting them. Too bad they could not convert the chances he set up.

Messi creates chances in every game too, yes, even with the NT. And he creates chances even if he is playing a parked bus. Let us not belittle Messi here. Baggio may have been trememdous, but Messi is right up there with best of the best. He is the best player i have ever seen and i have been watching football for about 10 years.

Im not taking anything away from Messi. But his performances for the national team have not be up to par for someone on Messis level. Messi underperforms for Argentina. Baggio performed better than that for a 94 Italy teams that in attack at least was much weaker than that Argentina team. Yet he still carried that team to the finals. And the semifinals in '90 too where again he was the main attacking threat. Messi is amazing and in my opinion the best player the world has seen since Baggio retired, but thats as far as it goes. Baggio > Messi.

Messi does not underperform for Argentina. He cannot carry the defense and that is what Argentina lacks and a good midfield. Something which Baggio always has behind him.

Don't know who is better, but i do know that Messi is among best. I get to watch him every week, which is what i care about.

He does underperform for Argentina. Yes they have a weak midfield and defense, but when you have an attack made up of Lavezzi, Higuian, Aguero, Tevez, Di Maria, and Pastore all supported by MESSI, you expect them to outscore their opponents, not get eliminated bu god knows who in the Copa America and get absoutely RECKED by Germany in the WC, albeit this current Germany squad is incredible.

juventus101 wrote:He does underperform for Argentina. Yes they have a weak midfield and defense, but when you have an attack made up of Lavezzi, Higuian, Aguero, Tevez, Di Maria, and Pastore all supported by MESSI, you expect them to outscore their opponents, not get eliminated bu god knows who in the Copa America and get absoutely RECKED by Germany in the WC, albeit this current Germany squad is incredible.

Really? Pastore? Lavezzi? these guys dont even play together.

Like i said, Argentina is a mess right now. Nothing compared to Italy '94 tactically. But keep underrating Messi and overrating Argentina.

Ok i get the problems with the argentina national team, but lets not exaggerate. Up until the germany game argentina did pretty well at the world cup, in fact they were one of the best attacking teams, probably the most entertaining. Problem was against germany they were rubbish defending set pieces, and then germany showed their typical efficiency by making the most of some defensive errors. The problem for messi was he just couldnt influence the game enough, he had no decisive plays either, there was one moment where the score was 1-0 that he nearly made a great assist but the pass just was not quite right, that was as good as it got for him really. The game against mexico as well, was not great, hardly did anything apart from a flukey assist to tevez who was offside, and one nice skill and shot on target, in the end it was tevez brilliance that took argentina through not messi. Basically messi was good in the group stages despite no goals, and went missing in both knockout games

Ok, guys, now tell me this. Why does Messi find it difficult for Argentina, but beasts it for Barcelona? He scores and creates plays by himself. And he does this majority of the time.

What is the difference between Barcelona and Argentina?

Maradona fanboy, Messi created Argentina's goal vs Mexico. before officide he made a pass to tevez, then he made a chip if tevez didnt touch he would score. i think linesman thought it was messi goal thats why he didnt rise his flag



He always faced 3-4 defenders in front of him. but even then he tries to get past them. i doubt baggio would even try this. baggio is great at 1 vs 1 but he could not fight against crowd. messi is the player that carries the ball from center of the pitch to the box

kiranr wrote:
Ok, guys, now tell me this. Why does Messi find it difficult for Argentina, but beasts it for Barcelona? He scores and creates plays by himself. And he does this majority of the time.

What is the difference between Barcelona and Argentina?

because he is mainly an attacker. an attacker without defence and midfield will not do great. He is also a great playmaker, but people dont give credit when he plays as a playmaker, because no goals=no credit for messi

people only compare messi's goals, they dont even give a shit how he performed. he performs as good as another good NT performers. so called legend attackers had great midfield and defense behind them. why defense because every attack starts from defense. but in argentina messi must start attack from everywhere, he must take the ball from his own GK and score a goal. thats what people expect

kiranr wrote:
Ok, guys, now tell me this. Why does Messi find it difficult for Argentina, but beasts it for Barcelona? He scores and creates plays by himself. And he does this majority of the time.

What is the difference between Barcelona and Argentina?

Well one difference, which is overlooked quite often, is pressure. Something fans find easy to underestimate, especially fans that havent been to world cup and experienced the atmosphere, its almost feels like going to battle. The national team shirt weighs heavy on a players shoulder, heavier than their club shirt, whilst champions league knock out games are played under pressure, its not the same. Whether thats the reason messi has not dominated major international tournaments i dont know, but he is the teams talisman which would make it even worse for him, he doesnt have an experienced xavi type figure too share responsibility with, and argentina are very passionate about football as well which would add even more to it. It might partly explain why he has had some unbelievable peformances in friendly games where the pressure is off like the 4-0 vs spain after the world cup. He was quite young at the world cup after all, its a lot to ask of a young man, regardless of how talented he is, but it does bring up the debate again about whether hes a leader

And dont forget its not like he is invincible for barcelona either, there have been times where he stuggled for them in recent memory like the 2009 semi final vs chelsea, 2010 vs inter milan, and 2012 vs chelsea. Twice in those occasions barca were knocked out, on the other occassion they were rescued by a last ditch iniesta wonder goal after a lot of referee help. Then after that in that years final it was iniesta and xavi that impressed most not messi

Finally you ask what difference there is between barca and argentina, i think you already know barcelona have a better team. That doesnt mean though every team that isnt as good as barca are a bunch of scrubs though (excluding certain members of the argies defence )

not xavi or iniesta. just give messi a normal midfielder, tiago or fabregas or even ozil he will do same things. the thing is that argentina doesnt have a normal midfielder. if you supported by mascerano in midfield its better to retire from football. how can you play mascerano behind messi only the great coach maradona can do it