Re: Roberto Baggio vs Lionel Messi

by Jack Daniels Fri May 04, 2012 12:30 pm

Baggio ain't even better than R9. No way in hell he is the best ever lol.

I'm sorry dude. I admire your love for Baggio but the delusion has to stop.

I'm not calling him shit or a bad player but he is nowhere close to Messi is now IMO.

by Die Borussen Fri May 04, 2012 12:35 pm

rivaldo is better too Smile

by Jack Daniels Fri May 04, 2012 12:41 pm

deadrave wrote:rivaldo is better too

Nah, Baggio is a better player than Rivaldo imo.

by billionmillion Fri May 04, 2012 12:52 pm

juventus101 dude marking messi is harder than marking baggio. i see they give too much space for baggio.
At dribbling when baggio made box to box dribbling? he was good dribbler but not as good as messi.
at that time football was slow, if that baggio played against today's madrid he could not move. when messi is marked he drops deep takes the ball and creates something. playmaker+striker
messi controls the ball better. he dribbles while controlling, doesnt waste time while controlling

what i meant faster, example if you cross the ball to messi in the box, he will receive it and shoot it in just 1 second. he works so fast nobody can do it.

When he will get older and lose his speed he will become Baggio :bball:

by juventus101 Fri May 04, 2012 1:10 pm

R9 is awesome, but Baggio wasnt favored by the dumb coach and stull outshine him when they were together a Inter. So nice try.

Rivaldo? Gimme a break.

They dont press Baggio because thats not the way italian defenses were at that point. Its a different type of defending, butbit doesnt make it worse becayse they dont dive in all day. If anything, players like Messi and Baggio thrive on defenders diving in on then all day.

by Doc Fri May 04, 2012 3:27 pm

I can't really say. Despite being knowledgeable (a bit) on football, I only saw Baggio coming down to the tail end of his career while I'm currently exposed to all of what Messi is doing. Personally, it would be rather unfair on either.

As for the dear admin's comment about us (us being fans) over hyping retired legends/footballers, he does have a point. I remember how Real Madrid fans used to praise Redondo to the heavens and me thinking that while Redondo was a wonderful player (and he was) he had a serious battle with consistency and injuries (similar to the Laudrup arguments). He certainly wasn't perfect.

Anyway, I choose neither in this discussion. Both played under very different circumstances...

by _LMG_10_ Fri May 04, 2012 8:53 pm

•MilanDevil• wrote:I honestly think Baggio is better, why you ask? Compare both leagues that the both of these players have played/playing in. Messi's league is less competitive which means that he is not obliged to play at his best every single game, which inturn means that in the long term he will be less tired. Baggio on the other hand had a lot of competition in the league during his career and teams were able to compete since they were paid correctly for the broadcasting right, on the other hand, Barcelona and Real get paid 142 m per year while other teams loosing on their fair share, hence, Sevilla's fan protesting. Dont get me wrong, I am a fan of Barca and I love Messi a lot but I do not think he is better than Baggio. Nevertheless, Baggio performed in every team that he played for and also in the national team, Messi on the other hand did not play for another team so we can not judge if he is dependent on his teammates, plus, Messi for Argentina is not the same Messi for Barca. All I am saying is that for the mean time, Messi is not better than Baggio but he still has time and if he manages to perform for his country (hopefully) then he will be the best. I really dont care who is the best as long as the player deserves it and is actually a humble human being, unlike, both Maradona and Pele who argue like children every single time.

So much fail in this post.

1) you've concluded that the serie A is stronger than current la Liga.
2) you've concluded that baggio was less tired than Messi even though Messi has played more minutes than any footballer out there, while carrying all the goalscoring burden, and even playmaking burden at times - all in 6 different compeitions, or however many he's played in this season.

Messi's league is less competitive which means that he is not obliged to play at his best every single game

This part really cracked me up. Are you 9 years old? Weak, weak argument.

by huntsman Sat May 05, 2012 1:49 pm

According to the information i gathered, there are two Baggio's.
Baggio's pre-injury and Baggio post injury (very serious injury)

The one pre-injury is on a different level and he is better than Messi in everything, even better than Maradona but he was short lived.

The one post injury is almost maradona level, he's still better than messi at everything except acceleration which as noted before he could do without most of the time. Not that his acceleration was bad, but pre-injury he had like twice the acceleration of Messi which is remarakable on its own.

All i have seen is youtube, but Baggio is the more efficient player and with alot more character, a leader, and an italian national treasure. From the youtube videos, he appears to be a very intelligent player as well. He could dribble the best defenders ll on his own.

But Messi is the best player in our current days, followed by Cristiano.

by huntsman Sat May 05, 2012 1:52 pm

Also i heard from a friend that Baggio suffered from joint problems, i dont know whether this comes after or pre injury.

That man had no limits. He only became super human after injury, pre injury he was a demi god.

by che Sat May 05, 2012 2:24 pm

why haven't i visited this section for so long...

baggio better dribbler than messi :bow:

by huntsman Sat May 05, 2012 2:26 pm

No one trolled defenders and Goal Keepers like Baggio did, not even Diego.
Baggio is an artist whereas Messi is a Mean Scoring Machine with amazing dribbling abilities. I hear that he trolled Buffon many times that he almost made him quit the game. Both Baggio and Messi are quality players but when it comes to comparison Messi's like a Soda drink wheras Baggio is like aged wine.

First Video: Trolling Defenders and Poor Goal Keepers

Spoiler:

Baggio treats the ball like a beautiful lady producing goals and assists that look so easy but in reality they're not. They're so delicate.

Second Video: Creating Assists that Zidane Studied and failed to Repeat

Spoiler:

Third Video: Free-kicks that Beckham Envies

Spoiler:

Now that said, i understand that the majority wont agree with my opinion which i am fine with; not even the critics and those who actually saw baggio play in his prime time because that's only natural, memories are short lived. If we conduct a voting right here right now, Messi will win this hands down.

by Jack Daniels Sat May 05, 2012 9:43 pm

Stop the delusion lmao..

Messi is way better than Baggio ever was.

People please open your eyes!

by billionmillion Sun May 06, 2012 12:50 am

Kaka fanboy youtube videos show same things again and again. apart from his 4-5 dribblings what he did was getting past 1 player all the time.

Show me a moment when he creates from nothing,
What baggio did was creating chances in counter attacks or in 1 vs 1 moments. messi has ability to create chances taking ball from his own half, from center, almost from nothing. yet i didnt see baggio doing it. i saw baggio only once in his own half or in center of pitch.

for messi its obvious to start attacks from these distances.
Roberto Baggio vs Lionel Messi - Page 2 Messi02-rmczoxc

Roberto Baggio vs Lionel Messi - Page 2 Messi02-rmczoxc

Roberto Baggio vs Lionel Messi - Page 2 Di-AJYK

Roberto Baggio vs Lionel Messi - Page 2 1209309784

theres no enough gifs you just enjoy this video.

these things only can be done by messi and maradona (followed by R9). better compare your lovely baggio with del piero smoking

by juventus101 Sun May 06, 2012 1:20 am

None, or at least most of you, did not rven watch Baggio, but you act as if youre so sure Msssi is better. I think thats hilarious. Baggio is the greatest player to ever live, and as i said before, he even put on a clinic againsy Maradonas Napoli. Baggio didnt creat things out of nothing? Actually he did, all the *bleep* time. Stop talking out of your asses when 95% of you did not watch Baggio.

by Jack Daniels Sun May 06, 2012 1:38 am

juventus101 wrote:None, or at least most of you, did not rven watch Baggio, but you act as if youre so sure Msssi is better. I think thats hilarious. Baggio is the greatest player to ever live, and as i said before, he even put on a clinic againsy Maradonas Napoli. Baggio didnt creat things out of nothing? Actually he did, all the *bleep* time. Stop talking out of your asses when 95% of you did not watch Baggio.

You didn't watch Pele so how can you say that Baggio is greater than him? Or are you that old now?

albino

by Ganso Sun May 06, 2012 1:42 am

but he missed the penalty

by juventus101 Sun May 06, 2012 1:56 am

Jack Daniels wrote:
juventus101 wrote:None, or at least most of you, did not rven watch Baggio, but you act as if youre so sure Msssi is better. I think thats hilarious. Baggio is the greatest player to ever live, and as i said before, he even put on a clinic againsy Maradonas Napoli. Baggio didnt creat things out of nothing? Actually he did, all the *bleep* time. Stop talking out of your asses when 95% of you did not watch Baggio.
You didn't watch Pele so how can you say that Baggio is greater than him? Or are you that old now?

Every knowledgeable soccer fan knows that the defending 50 years ago was crap compared to nowadays. I dont need to have watched Pele to know that. Im sure he was amazing, but with defending like it was 50 years ago, its hard to say he was the best in my opinion. As you can see, these conclusions were made without having to have watched Pele.

The difference in quality between the 90s when Baggio played and the 60s when zpele played was huge. The difference betwern the quality of the 90s when Baggio played and now is much smaller and actually still in favor of the 90s, as i believe the late 90s, early 2000s was the best years for soccer.

by Jack Daniels Sun May 06, 2012 4:42 am

juventus101 wrote:
Every knowledgeable soccer fan knows that the defending 50 years ago was crap compared to nowadays. I dont need to have watched Pele to know that. Im sure he was amazing, but with defending like it was 50 years ago, its hard to say he was the best in my opinion. As you can see, these conclusions were made without having to have watched Pele.

The difference in quality between the 90s when Baggio played and the 60s when zpele played was huge. The difference betwern the quality of the 90s when Baggio played and now is much smaller and actually still in favor of the 90s, as i believe the late 90s, early 2000s was the best years for soccer.

Hey don't get too serious with that comment lmao.

You only beat what's in front of you mate.

Thing is Messi is breaking almost every record in sight, Winning unbelievable amounts of trophies and individual accolades while being the best player in an already amazing group of players.

And of course all in the age of 24. You might use his international credentials fine, he is still young.

I admit that i only managed to watch almost half of Baggio's career unfortunately for me. He is a great player and a legend on his own right but common, Messi is just out of this world. All experts, pundits, coaches, colleagues agree with this and that's all i need to conclude my opinion.

But yeah Baggio is better ok.

by DuringTheWar Sun May 06, 2012 5:01 am

juventus101 wrote:None, or at least most of you, did not rven watch Baggio, but you act as if youre so sure Msssi is better. I think thats hilarious. Baggio is the greatest player to ever live, and as i said before, he even put on a clinic againsy Maradonas Napoli. Baggio didnt creat things out of nothing? Actually he did, all the *bleep* time. Stop talking out of your asses when 95% of you did not watch Baggio.

here is a 23 year old baggio being outplayed by a maradona about to enter his 30s

If youre going to argue baggio was better than maradona youre going to need more than one great (maradona-esque) solo goal he scored against napoli once upon a time

by alexjanosik Sun May 06, 2012 5:41 am

Messi is playing at a level atleast a couple of levels above what Baggio ever did.Barring maybe freekicks,at every other aspect of the game Messi is way better.This is not even a comparison

by juventus101 Sun May 06, 2012 6:03 am

I actually watched the game live. Baggio outplayed Maradona in pretty much every time they faced each other. One game Maradons did better, good for him. Pretty much every time Baggio won that personal battle. And Baggio is better than Messi. Messi breaks goalscoring records, but thats not what Baggio was about. He was just as much, if not more, about creating as he was about scoring. And as i said before, the only experts claiming Messi is the greatest ever are Barcelona players and Maradona. And i will use Messis international failures against him. Baggios 94 Italy team was far weaker than Messis 2010 Argentina team, AND in my opinion the competition was tougher for Baggio yet he still carried that mediocre Italy team to the final. During the WCs Baggio has never let his Italy get outscored in open play. Only knocked out on PKs every time. Baggio > Maradona >/= Messi.

by alexjanosik Sun May 06, 2012 6:32 am

juventus101 wrote:I actually watched the game live. Baggio outplayed Maradona in pretty much every time they faced each other. One game Maradons did better, good for him. Pretty much every time Baggio won that personal battle. And Baggio is better than Messi. Messi breaks goalscoring records, but thats not what Baggio was about. He was just as much, if not more, about creating as he was about scoring. And as i said before, the only experts claiming Messi is the greatest ever are Barcelona players and Maradona. And i will use Messis international failures against him. Baggios 94 Italy team was far weaker than Messis 2010 Argentina team, AND in my opinion the competition was tougher for Baggio yet he still carried that mediocre Italy team to the final. During the WCs Baggio has never let his Italy get outscored in open play. Only knocked out on PKs every time. Baggio > Maradona >/= Messi.

Its amazing the lengths people will go to to discredit Messi.
Claiming Italy 94 was far weaker than Argentina 2010.
Unless you backtrack son I am going to start the following threads.
Gabriel Milito>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Francco Baresi
Gabriel Heinze>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Paolo Maldini
Samuel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Costacurta
Gutierrez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mauro Tassotti
I am sure according to Mr Clueless the Italy defense with GOATS in all positions is far far worse than the great great Argentinian defense marshalled by Heinze and Milito.
Ofcourse its also painfully obvious that the one man midfield which Argentina played in the WC of Mascherano is far far greater than Italy's midfield.
I am sure the Masch alone is thrice as good as a midfield of Albertini,Dino Baggio and Donadini.
:facepalm:

NTM the greatest coach of all time Diego Maradona up against the bumbling novice,Sacchi.
What chance does poor Sacchi have up against the footballing intelligence of Maradona.

Do people actually read before they post such nonsense.

by •MilanDevil• Sun May 06, 2012 8:03 am

_LMG_10_ wrote:
•MilanDevil• wrote:I honestly think Baggio is better, why you ask? Compare both leagues that the both of these players have played/playing in. Messi's league is less competitive which means that he is not obliged to play at his best every single game, which inturn means that in the long term he will be less tired. Baggio on the other hand had a lot of competition in the league during his career and teams were able to compete since they were paid correctly for the broadcasting right, on the other hand, Barcelona and Real get paid 142 m per year while other teams loosing on their fair share, hence, Sevilla's fan protesting. Dont get me wrong, I am a fan of Barca and I love Messi a lot but I do not think he is better than Baggio. Nevertheless, Baggio performed in every team that he played for and also in the national team, Messi on the other hand did not play for another team so we can not judge if he is dependent on his teammates, plus, Messi for Argentina is not the same Messi for Barca. All I am saying is that for the mean time, Messi is not better than Baggio but he still has time and if he manages to perform for his country (hopefully) then he will be the best. I really dont care who is the best as long as the player deserves it and is actually a humble human being, unlike, both Maradona and Pele who argue like children every single time.

So much fail in this post.

1) you've concluded that the serie A is stronger than current la Liga.
2) you've concluded that baggio was less tired than Messi even though Messi has played more minutes than any footballer out there, while carrying all the goalscoring burden, and even playmaking burden at times - all in 6 different compeitions, or however many he's played in this season.

Messi's league is less competitive which means that he is not obliged to play at his best every single game

This part really cracked me up. Are you 9 years old? Weak, weak argument.

1) I was speaking of the Serie A that Baggio Played in not the one now.
2) Baggio played against more competitive teams than the ones Messi is playing against today. He had more of a challenge.

I have noticed during Barca's game against weaker opponents, Messi is lazy which shows that he is not giving it his best, this allows him to save energy without playing badly.

by •MilanDevil• Sun May 06, 2012 8:05 am

Messi is a better dribbler and scorer, but Baggio is a more complete player thats why I consider him better. However, I think Messi will become better than Baggio since he has become a more creative player and is also improving on other parts of his game like freekicks.

by billionmillion Sun May 06, 2012 6:20 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
juventus101 wrote:I actually watched the game live. Baggio outplayed Maradona in pretty much every time they faced each other. One game Maradons did better, good for him. Pretty much every time Baggio won that personal battle. And Baggio is better than Messi. Messi breaks goalscoring records, but thats not what Baggio was about. He was just as much, if not more, about creating as he was about scoring. And as i said before, the only experts claiming Messi is the greatest ever are Barcelona players and Maradona. And i will use Messis international failures against him. Baggios 94 Italy team was far weaker than Messis 2010 Argentina team, AND in my opinion the competition was tougher for Baggio yet he still carried that mediocre Italy team to the final. During the WCs Baggio has never let his Italy get outscored in open play. Only knocked out on PKs every time. Baggio > Maradona >/= Messi.

Its amazing the lengths people will go to to discredit Messi.
Claiming Italy 94 was far weaker than Argentina 2010.
Unless you backtrack son I am going to start the following threads.
Gabriel Milito>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Francco Baresi
Gabriel Heinze>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Paolo Maldini
Samuel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Costacurta
Gutierrez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mauro Tassotti
I am sure according to Mr Clueless the Italy defense with GOATS in all positions is far far worse than the great great Argentinian defense marshalled by Heinze and Milito.
Ofcourse its also painfully obvious that the one man midfield which Argentina played in the WC of Mascherano is far far greater than Italy's midfield.
I am sure the Masch alone is thrice as good as a midfield of Albertini,Dino Baggio and Donadini.

NTM the greatest coach of all time Diego Maradona up against the bumbling novice,Sacchi.
What chance does poor Sacchi have up against the footballing intelligence of Maradona.

Do people actually read before they post such nonsense.

what an ownage drinking

I was going to say same things but i had no interest in arguing with delusional fan. He is so wrong at everything

juventus101 wrote: And as i said before, the only experts claiming Messi is the greatest ever are Barcelona players and Maradona

Just few posts before i showed you quote from R9. Are you blind or you didnt see that?

And when Maradona did say messi is greatest ever? he never said that. stop talking out of your butt. Most recently R9, Arsene Wenger, Rooney said it, they are not barca players i think

by huntsman Sun May 06, 2012 6:56 pm

No one dribbles past defenders and goalkeepers like Baggio does. Baggio is an artist, and let's not forget that he was cursed by a very serious injury which put his career on the line.

Baggio scores all these goals you watch whilst under the effect of pain or pain-killers, i believe he suffered from Rheumatoid Arthritis, he was always playing but in pain. The reason he retired was because his body and knees couldnt take it any more. He once said in an interview that he would love to continue playing football but his body wont allow him.

And that's the only reason we are comparing messi and maradona to such a great legend because if it werent for an unfortunate injury he would have destroyed them both together.

Baggio played and scored against the best goalkeepers and defenders in the world and perhaps in the history of the game.

messi plays and scores against teams that concede an average of 8 goals every game and he plays for arguably the best team in the history along the likes of xavi and iniesta.

Football is more than just dribbling. Because of all his health problems and more, i think baggio is the most instinctive player and with the highest football IQ score.

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