Re: OFFTOPIC: Spanish National Team

by messixaviesta Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:58 pm

Arquitecto wrote:Another superb performance by us.

Cazorla has shown he can carry the midfield with a solid partner.

Alba is looking VERY promising.

Busi anchored beautifully.

Xavi was well......Xavi.

Silva has shown why he needs to start every game. I would take him over Ozil any day any year.

Thiago was superb for the time he was on.

Villa showed why he is Espana's best striker of all time bar none (better then flop Raul).

Llorente for the time he was on made Espana have much more dimension in attack. Should start over Torres no doubt.

What I want? During the friendlies, I want experimentation.

People like Iraola, Munian, Vila, Jose Angel, ENRIQUE, Azpulicueta, Victor Ruiz, More Llorente, Botia, Monreal, Suso, Mata.

Vamos!!!

Very nice post man. I had no idea you are a supporter of Spain.

As Euro 2012 is approaching Spain is coming back to somewhere near their best. This is really interesting because Germany have probably been the most in-form national team in Europe and have barely put a foot wrong. As dani said some time back the big question that remains is whether they are good enough to beat Spain because they have probably already shown that they are good enough to do everything else that is needed to be champions. Let us not forget that Germany is one of those nations that has a habit of over-achieving with weak teams. This time anything short of the trophy will be considered a failure. Then there is Netherlands who are right on par with these two - at least if Robben and Sneijder are both fully fit. Then again Euro is a notoriously unpredictable tournament. Some team that looks weak now could easily end up winning it.

Cazorla has always been a good player but his sale from Villarreal to Malaga has probably made the world notice him more. Now he is in a team where he is MVP and the team is doing well. If this continues then he can make an even bigger name for myself.

I have watched Alba for Valencia and he is quite good. I didn't see this match but I agree Spain's left back position deserves thought. Some time back mole had suggested Jose Enrique but he is yet to be picked. So that's unlikely.

D.Silva > Ozil? That's a bold statement to make. I think it's very close and I would reserve judgment for some more time. I especially want to see how they perform in several big match situations - during the season and even more at Euro 2012. Personally I consider both of them slightly inferior to Iniesta but very good players in their own right. As far as D.Silva is concerned this has been like his breakthrough season when he has become kind of like MVP at ManCity and is playing for a team with a genuine chance of winning big things. Unfortunately for him they have started very badly in UCL and have a very rough ride ahead in order to try to qualify for the knock outs.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:18 pm

He's Spanish JD Razz

Also currently i agree David Silva is probably better than Ozil, i struggle to think of someone better than Silva in his position atm.....

And Yes Enrique should be picked for crying out loud Del Bosque, he's pretty much the best LB in the Premier League atm he's amazing.....

I'd go as far to say if that if Barca were to buy him as a replacement for Abidal who would'nt look out of place thats how good he is.....

Unfortunatly playing for Newcastle didnt really help his case with Del Bosque but playing i hope now for Liverpool he gets his chance, because he damn sure deserves it....

by Le Samourai Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:46 pm

Arquitecto wrote:
billy_gr wrote:I was dissatisfied with Valdes. He was really looking unsure and nervous

I agreed, Valdes did not impress me.

I wan't Reina to start ahead of him and Casillas.

Que? You mean in friendiles or for real?

by The Sanchez Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:17 am

Why the hell is Jesus Navas not having much of a go? And I agree that Enrique should have a good go

by messixaviesta Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:59 pm

Immaculate_Mole wrote:He's Spanish JD

Also currently i agree David Silva is probably better than Ozil, i struggle to think of someone better than Silva in his position atm.....

And Yes Enrique should be picked for crying out loud Del Bosque, he's pretty much the best LB in the Premier League atm he's amazing.....

I'd go as far to say if that if Barca were to buy him as a replacement for Abidal who would'nt look out of place thats how good he is.....

Unfortunatly playing for Newcastle didnt really help his case with Del Bosque but playing i hope now for Liverpool he gets his chance, because he damn sure deserves it....

Oh I see. It's rather strange that a Milan supporter is Spanish.

Your views make good sense - nothing much to disagree.

by messixaviesta Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:05 pm

paxtonpale wrote:Why the hell is Jesus Navas not having much of a go? And I agree that Enrique should have a good go

Good point. Actually Del Bosque deserves credit for integrating Navas into the WC 2010 squad even though he was often discarded due to his psychological problems. People rarely mention that Navas played a pretty important role at the tournament. He gave speed to at least one wing - something that Spain amidst all their possession and creativity largely lacked. Also he was the one who started the move for the winning goal in the final. Now I suppose his form has dipped a little and age is catching up. Then again although I have not followed Sevilla closely this season they are doing well. So I guess Navas must be playing well too. I say let's not give up on him totally. The competition is a bit too fierce for places in midfield, in fact I can't recall having ever seen a national team which had so many quality midfielders to choose from, but Navas still brings some unique qualities.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:27 am

messixaviesta wrote:
Immaculate_Mole wrote:He's Spanish JD

Also currently i agree David Silva is probably better than Ozil, i struggle to think of someone better than Silva in his position atm.....

And Yes Enrique should be picked for crying out loud Del Bosque, he's pretty much the best LB in the Premier League atm he's amazing.....

I'd go as far to say if that if Barca were to buy him as a replacement for Abidal who would'nt look out of place thats how good he is.....

Unfortunatly playing for Newcastle didnt really help his case with Del Bosque but playing i hope now for Liverpool he gets his chance, because he damn sure deserves it....

Oh I see. It's rather strange that a Milan supporter is Spanish.

Your views make good sense - nothing much to disagree.

Well, hes part Italian aswell......

He's from the basque country if i remember right and supports all the ideals of of the basque people rather than one specific club i think.....

I am sure Arq could tell you more than i can.....

by futbol_bill Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:25 pm

I had put up this post in the Madrid section just before the last 2 euro qualifying games. I am Spanish, I think only the second one in the Madrid section. Perhaps this can give you a Spanish persepective for those of you not Spanish.

futbol_bill wrote:I'm putting up this thread due to questions from Setablanca and others. Bascially they were asking why Enrique is never selected, why don't they select other players for the remaining games since they have already qualified for Euro, why most players are from Barcelona or Madrid and why doesn't Silva get to start.

The best Spanish players always end up in Barcelona or Real Madrid since they buy them as soon as they develop. Many believe the Spanish style is from Barcelona or Cruff, but the reality is it's a Spanish style now taught to youth all over Spain from age 4. What is Barcelona, is Xavi. He is the on field general or as you Americans call quarterback. He is the offensive director. Play starts upfield with CBs (Pique, Puyol) and deep MF (Busquets, Alonso or Javi Martinez) and then the general directs and organizes the play. MF's like Iniesta, Cesc, Cazorla are outlets and kind of deep lying forwards. That's why Thiago is being giving some playing time since he is the closest in style to Xavi in all of Spain. I suppose the other alternative if Xavi is hurt or leaves (after Euro) is Valero.

VDB is going primarily with the same line-up as for the WC. He is going with what has worked and the only changes he is making is for aging / underperforming players. It is important to play hard and keep up momentum to get team ready for Euro. They will have the same approach to the friendlies that will follow this week's remaining euro qualifying games.

From the last WC team, the only players not currently in plans for Euro are Marchena, Capdevila (both out due to age) and Navas (injured). New players in (or back on squad) are Cazlorla, Negredo and Thiago.

There is one spot open for defense. VDB did bring up Botia and Dominquez (CBs from U23 team), but he seems to want to go with Ramos, Busquets or Javi Martinez for the back-up CB position, along with Albiol. This way, by using an existing roster player, he can go with 6 defense and use the 2 open spots for offense. For the LB position, he is inclined to use Arbeloa and is looking for a reserve LB. He has tried Monreal before and is currently looking at Jordi Alba.
I would suspect that Enrique is the other possibility. He will likely call him for some of the upcoming friendlies and then choose between the two by next June. I suspect Monreal is off the list unless he shows more at his club team. Montoya was also called up but they will save him for Olympic team unless both Ramos and Arbeloa get injured. The 2 young CB's are likely in the same situation if Puyol or Pique are injured.

For the mid-field, they are basically no openings. They have Busquets, Alonso, Javi Martinez, Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc and Cazorla. Thiago will only get on squad if Xavi is hurt allowing him to play on Olympic team. They did play with 4 MF's in WC primarily because of the play of both Busquets and Alonso. I personally prefer them to play with only 3 since the 4 MF's allows for only 2 forwards. The likely line-up then would be Busquets or Alonso, Xavi and Iniesta or Cesc. If they do go with the 4 man MF both Alonso and Busquets will be there.

Up front, the only lock on a position is Villa at LW. For striker, they will have to select 2 of Negredo, Llorente, Torres or possibly Soldado. Right now the pressure is on Torres (this is why he is starting today) to earn his spot, otherwise he will not be on team. Llorente also needs to impress as Soldado is burying up la liga right now and llorente still hasn't hit stride this year. For RW, there is Cesc or Iniesta available plus Silva, Mata, Pedro and possibly Navas. The decision for the extra attacker will come down to Navas or a 3rd stiker.

As to Silva not starting, well first off he is starting today and has started in 2 of the last 5 games. But in order to claim a starting spot in this team he has to be better than Pedro, Mata, Cesc which he does some times but they are all pretty darn good players.

So what we have been seen is the Euro team, barring injuries. One other consideration is the Olympic team (Olympic soccer starts 4 weeks after Euro is finished) for which Mata, Javi Martinez, Thiago, Montoya, Botia, Dominquez and even Cesc (they are allowed 2 players under 25) are eligible. They likely will not take Thiago, Botia , Dominquez and Montoya. The other 3 are too important to this team not to be selected yet they are desperately needed on Olympic team. Mata and Javi likely will play on both teams while I have doubts whether Cesc will.

Only decisions then are LB and who gets cut from forwards (2 of Torres, Llorente, Negredo, Soldado, Navas).

Barring injuries then the squad is Casillas, Reina, Valdes, Ramos, Arbeloa, Pique, Puyol, Albiol, Busquets, Alonso, J. Martinez, Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Cazorla, Villa, Silva, Mata, Pedro plus a LB (Alba, Enrique or Monreal) and 3 of (Thiago, Navas, Torres, Llorente, Negredo and Soldado).

Since these 2 games have been played I changed my opinion on Silva. He definitely should start.

So the squad comes down to if we plan on playing with 4 MF. Silva and Villa start up front. The remaining 3 spots go to 2 of the 4 strikers and Thiago.

If we go with 3 MF, the remaining spots go to 2 of the 4 strikers plus either Navas or a 3rd striker.

My favourite starting line-up is
Casillas
Ramos Pique Puyol LB (no preference yet)
Cesc Xavi Iniesta
Silva Llorente Villa

or if they insist on a 4 man MF
Busquets
Cesc Xavi Iniesta
Silva Villa

(and this is coming from a Real madrid fan)

by messixaviesta Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:37 pm

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

Well, hes part Italian aswell......

He's from the basque country if i remember right and supports all the ideals of of the basque people rather than one specific club i think.....

I am sure Arq could tell you more than i can.....

Yes I somewhat recall now. Thanks mole.

by The Sanchez Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:31 am

Forward 3: Silva, Villa, Mata. Three of the best!

by BarcaKizz Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:01 pm

futbol_bill wrote:I had put up this post in the Madrid section just before the last 2 euro qualifying games. I am Spanish, I think only the second one in the Madrid section. Perhaps this can give you a Spanish persepective for those of you not Spanish.

futbol_bill wrote:I'm putting up this thread due to questions from Setablanca and others. Bascially they were asking why Enrique is never selected, why don't they select other players for the remaining games since they have already qualified for Euro, why most players are from Barcelona or Madrid and why doesn't Silva get to start.

The best Spanish players always end up in Barcelona or Real Madrid since they buy them as soon as they develop. Many believe the Spanish style is from Barcelona or Cruff, but the reality is it's a Spanish style now taught to youth all over Spain from age 4. What is Barcelona, is Xavi. He is the on field general or as you Americans call quarterback. He is the offensive director. Play starts upfield with CBs (Pique, Puyol) and deep MF (Busquets, Alonso or Javi Martinez) and then the general directs and organizes the play. MF's like Iniesta, Cesc, Cazorla are outlets and kind of deep lying forwards. That's why Thiago is being giving some playing time since he is the closest in style to Xavi in all of Spain. I suppose the other alternative if Xavi is hurt or leaves (after Euro) is Valero.

VDB is going primarily with the same line-up as for the WC. He is going with what has worked and the only changes he is making is for aging / underperforming players. It is important to play hard and keep up momentum to get team ready for Euro. They will have the same approach to the friendlies that will follow this week's remaining euro qualifying games.

From the last WC team, the only players not currently in plans for Euro are Marchena, Capdevila (both out due to age) and Navas (injured). New players in (or back on squad) are Cazlorla, Negredo and Thiago.

There is one spot open for defense. VDB did bring up Botia and Dominquez (CBs from U23 team), but he seems to want to go with Ramos, Busquets or Javi Martinez for the back-up CB position, along with Albiol. This way, by using an existing roster player, he can go with 6 defense and use the 2 open spots for offense. For the LB position, he is inclined to use Arbeloa and is looking for a reserve LB. He has tried Monreal before and is currently looking at Jordi Alba.
I would suspect that Enrique is the other possibility. He will likely call him for some of the upcoming friendlies and then choose between the two by next June. I suspect Monreal is off the list unless he shows more at his club team. Montoya was also called up but they will save him for Olympic team unless both Ramos and Arbeloa get injured. The 2 young CB's are likely in the same situation if Puyol or Pique are injured.

For the mid-field, they are basically no openings. They have Busquets, Alonso, Javi Martinez, Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc and Cazorla. Thiago will only get on squad if Xavi is hurt allowing him to play on Olympic team. They did play with 4 MF's in WC primarily because of the play of both Busquets and Alonso. I personally prefer them to play with only 3 since the 4 MF's allows for only 2 forwards. The likely line-up then would be Busquets or Alonso, Xavi and Iniesta or Cesc. If they do go with the 4 man MF both Alonso and Busquets will be there.

Up front, the only lock on a position is Villa at LW. For striker, they will have to select 2 of Negredo, Llorente, Torres or possibly Soldado. Right now the pressure is on Torres (this is why he is starting today) to earn his spot, otherwise he will not be on team. Llorente also needs to impress as Soldado is burying up la liga right now and llorente still hasn't hit stride this year. For RW, there is Cesc or Iniesta available plus Silva, Mata, Pedro and possibly Navas. The decision for the extra attacker will come down to Navas or a 3rd stiker.

As to Silva not starting, well first off he is starting today and has started in 2 of the last 5 games. But in order to claim a starting spot in this team he has to be better than Pedro, Mata, Cesc which he does some times but they are all pretty darn good players.

So what we have been seen is the Euro team, barring injuries. One other consideration is the Olympic team (Olympic soccer starts 4 weeks after Euro is finished) for which Mata, Javi Martinez, Thiago, Montoya, Botia, Dominquez and even Cesc (they are allowed 2 players under 25) are eligible. They likely will not take Thiago, Botia , Dominquez and Montoya. The other 3 are too important to this team not to be selected yet they are desperately needed on Olympic team. Mata and Javi likely will play on both teams while I have doubts whether Cesc will.

Only decisions then are LB and who gets cut from forwards (2 of Torres, Llorente, Negredo, Soldado, Navas).

Barring injuries then the squad is Casillas, Reina, Valdes, Ramos, Arbeloa, Pique, Puyol, Albiol, Busquets, Alonso, J. Martinez, Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Cazorla, Villa, Silva, Mata, Pedro plus a LB (Alba, Enrique or Monreal) and 3 of (Thiago, Navas, Torres, Llorente, Negredo and Soldado).

Since these 2 games have been played I changed my opinion on Silva. He definitely should start.

So the squad comes down to if we plan on playing with 4 MF. Silva and Villa start up front. The remaining 3 spots go to 2 of the 4 strikers and Thiago.

If we go with 3 MF, the remaining spots go to 2 of the 4 strikers plus either Navas or a 3rd striker.

My favourite starting line-up is
Casillas
Ramos Pique Puyol LB (no preference yet)
Cesc Xavi Iniesta
Silva Llorente Villa

or if they insist on a 4 man MF
Busquets
Cesc Xavi Iniesta
Silva Villa

(and this is coming from a Real madrid fan)

Great post and wonderful insight. While I agree on some levels that the Spanish definitely implement a style of play Spain-wide, I don't think there is any denying that Barca's does have its very own and unique qualities... a lot of which come from Cruyffism. Saying they only are from Spain isn't correct. Moreover, if this is the Spanish style, I don't really recall the most Spanish side, Madrid, every employing it. That being said, Spaniards are clearly being brought up in a certain way at the moment and its paying off big time.

Interested in your teams... I wonder why in you have played left out Busquets or Alonso to accommodate Cesc? Clearly VDB is reluctant to play without 2 holding mids let alone 1. This also limits Xavi's maestro qualities. He can play that deep, he used to and was great. Since moving forward a bit more, more people notice him, because he can influence attacking play more. I think he's most effective bang in the centre, not too deep. That midfield is also a bit too flimsy.

In your second lineup, I'm wondering why you drop a forward to accommodate Busquets? Why don't you drop a midfielder? I think Cesc has to be dropped really, why are you so keen to keep him there? I also think with those players you'd be more likely to get this sort of team:

Cesc Busquets Xavi
Silva Villa Iniesta

I do like your teams more than VDB's though, particularly the dropping of Alonso. No disrespect to Alonso, but they don't need 2 DMs really. Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta boss pretty much any midfield without needing Alonso, so I've never really seen the need. I'd go with:

Casillas
Ramos Pique Puyol Alba
Xavi Busquets Iniesta
Silva Llorente Villa

The reason for Llorente is this team is a lot like Barca, but without Messi- 'the spark', the cutting edge. Without this cutting edge its best to have a different sort of option up front. Llorente provides that option but also has all the technical qualities to play nicely with the team. Pedro, Mata or Soldado would mean the team would keep the ball well etc. but versing buses they would be a bit toothless. Not to say they still won't have difficulty finding ways past the bus.

by futbol_bill Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:54 pm

Re Spanish or Cruff or Barcelona style, it may have begun in Barcelona with Cruff but it is taught all over Spain now from age 4. You are right, Madrid plays a more forward and counter attack game, but you can see the tight passing and controls skills in Ramos, Arbeloa, Alonso, Albiol, Granero, etc. The key is field vision, good passing and receiving skills, which they develop from an extremely young age.

You are right. Spain plays an all out offensive system and to make up for it in defense he plays 4 MF, two of which are more defensive, but at the same time good passers. It will be Alonso and Busquets with Javi Martinez available as sub. That makes it Xavi and likely Iniesta with Cesc left out (that's what I don't like about it plus it limits us to just 2 forwards (Villa and Silva). This leaves a lot of talent on the bench (nice problem to have) but I can't blame VDB since you have to protect your own end and with the offensive powers of the defense, they need some help in MF.

That said you can almost predict the line-up since it will likely be 4 man MF. That means Thiago gets included as well and pretty well eliminates Navas (he has been injured for those who have questioned why he hasn't been playing). The remaining open spots then are LB (Likely either Alba or Enrique) and which 2 strikers to include (Llorente, Negredo, Torres or Soldado). There is a very outside chance of Navas and only one striker (in addition to Villa), but I think not.

by futbol_bill Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:59 pm

The one regret I have with this squad is it may hurt our Olympic chances (that tournament begins just 3 weeks and a few days after the Euro final) since the key players (Mata, J. Martinez, Thiago and possibly Cesc) will be trying to play on both teams with literally no vacation.

by messixaviesta Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:46 pm

kizz, excellent post. I pretty much agree with everything. The only point on which I have a doubt is starting Llorente. Your reasons are valid in their own right but I would still consider putting Villa in the center and use Mata or Pedro. My bigger concern is not the need for height but that I need someone to run in behind the defense.

by Adit Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:52 pm

Firstly spain tactics are alot different from barca tactics,any one who says both uses same tactics are tactically inept. .Xabi-Busquet duo has been very successful as it gives extra protection needed for a international match defensively with out giving away creativity as Alonso is one hell of a creative player at the same time being defensively good.Also Iniesta starting on wings and dropping into midfield to link up with the midfield has been an extreamly successful tactics Del bosque developed as it drags the opposition full backs alot inside and makes space for Ramos/Enrique to overlap (reason why Ramos was one of the best player against Germany ) and simply out numbers the midfield to control the match.

Now the David silva situation.Since VDB will always play with that double pivot with busquet placed bit lower as a sweeper midfielder only option silva has is to play in front three of Espana.Since Iniesta is already starting in front 3 and atleast 2 goal scorers are needed i cant see silva getting a start ahead 2 other goal scorers as it will definitely affect their scoring probability.Silva might get a chance if either of iniesta,xabi or xavi is injured though.

by futbol_bill Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:23 pm

Adit, Silva has started recently as a RW. Since we are playing with 4 MF (Busquets, Alonso, Xavi, Iniesta assuming all 4 are healthy), the front 2 are Villa and someone else. Silva's recent form puts him in that spot. It's difficult to keep the likes of Silva, Cesc, Mata, Pedro, Cazorla on bench let alone whichever true strikers (llorente, Negredo, Torres or Soldado) they have on squad. I see your point but Silva has been making things happen and he is a constant threat to score. It no doubt is a very pleasant problem for VDB to have.

For all those that have been asking why not more experimentation (assuming you mean trying other players to possibly make squad), there just isn't room. Only decisions / experimentation is for LB and possibly giving Soldado a shot as one of the 2 strikers.

by BarcaKizz Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:26 am

I disagree with the fact that Spain play all-out offense, as said, Spain are different tactically to Barca.

@ Adit: Are you convinced they need the two-man protective cushion though?? The Senna-Xavi partnership was always better and in my opinion Xavi played better there. He's played too high up now in my opinion. Busquets is tactically very aware and in particular if they play Arbeloa thats a pretty strong defensive structure. I don't really see Alonso giving enough in defense to justify him being there ahead of someone who gives more in attack.

Tbh though, this is my opinion, and I was always a bigger fan of Aragones' team anyway.

@MessiXaviesta: JD, thats a good point, I think its matter I would experiment with before the tournament with. If Llorente is in top form and its working him playing there, play him. Otherwise play Pedro. I say Pedro rather than Mata, because I think Mata won't make the same direct movements, if Xavi, Iniesta and Silva are all on there, thats enough creativity.

@Futbol_Bill: The 4 man MF is is working, but hasn't really been tested yet. Germany will be a big test. It even failed against Italy. They seem to lack cutting edge, thats why I think they should innovate.

by futbol_bill Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:25 pm

BarcaKizz wrote:I disagree with the fact that Spain play all-out offense, as said, Spain are different tactically to Barca.

@ Adit: Are you convinced they need the two-man protective cushion though?? The Senna-Xavi partnership was always better and in my opinion Xavi played better there. He's played too high up now in my opinion. Busquets is tactically very aware and in particular if they play Arbeloa thats a pretty strong defensive structure. I don't really see Alonso giving enough in defense to justify him being there ahead of someone who gives more in attack.

Tbh though, this is my opinion, and I was always a bigger fan of Aragones' team anyway.

@MessiXaviesta: JD, thats a good point, I think its matter I would experiment with before the tournament with. If Llorente is in top form and its working him playing there, play him. Otherwise play Pedro. I say Pedro rather than Mata, because I think Mata won't make the same direct movements, if Xavi, Iniesta and Silva are all on there, thats enough creativity.

@Futbol_Bill: The 4 man MF is is working, but hasn't really been tested yet. Germany will be a big test. It even failed against Italy. They seem to lack cutting edge, thats why I think they should innovate.

What are you talking about? The 4 man MF has been in place for the past 3 years, all thru the WC. Big fail against Italy!! you might as well include Argentina and Mexico!! Those games were friendlies after world cup. Those games meant nothing to the Spanish team and everything to those good NT that wanted to topple the WC champ. Germany was a big test, in WC. There were clearly the 2nd best team. They are the major challenge for Spain to repeat. As for innovation, that's what Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Silva, Cazlorla, Thiago, Mata are all about!!! It a wonderful dilemma for a coach to have as to what superstars to put on field. I don't particularly like the 4 man MF, but it is a very successful formula. Besides being able to control MF (and thus game), it also makes a lot os sense defensively.

by BarcaKizz Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:35 pm

As I said... it has worked, but it doesn't mean it will work forever. I don't like it and neither do you. Maybe they'll win the tournament regardless, they probably will, but I'm just saying to get the best out of the team I think it would be better to innovate a little. Pep changes his team each year in some way.

As much as Spain deserved the WC, they were lucky... they very almost didn't go through on a number of occasions. I'm just saying I think a switch to 4-3-3 or a more offensive 4-2-3-1 could be a good move. Am I being picky? Yes, but this is the only way you make your team better... never be content with what you have.

by futbol_bill Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:40 pm

I didn't see the Chelsea game yesterday but a number of articles are now saying that Torres is finally returning to form. If this is true, he has the inside tract with VDB to be on Euro team. That would mean the 2nd one is a choice between Llorente and Negredo and perhaps Soldado may not even get a chance since both LLor. & Neg. have been impressive in their games both with NT and their clubs.

Barring injuries, (again if this is true re Torres), the only squad decisons to be made are Enrique or Alba and Llorente or Negredo.

by futbol_bill Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:47 pm

BarcaKizz wrote:As I said... it has worked, but it doesn't mean it will work forever. I don't like it and neither do you. Maybe they'll win the tournament regardless, they probably will, but I'm just saying to get the best out of the team I think it would be better to innovate a little. Pep changes his team each year in some way.

As much as Spain deserved the WC, they were lucky... they very almost didn't go through on a number of occasions. I'm just saying I think a switch to 4-3-3 or a more offensive 4-2-3-1 could be a good move. Am I being picky? Yes, but this is the only way you make your team better... never be content with what you have.

Ok I see were you are coming from. I do like the 4-3-3 but we have been exposed on defense with counter attacks and that extra deep MF helps that potential weakness, plus as has been said before it does help us control the MF. Xabi's connection with Xavi in the past few games has been fabulous. So there are strong arguments for both formations.

Probably what VDB could do is mix it up occasionally and that alone would give him more opportunities to use his full talented squad. As for innovation, bring in Cazorla, Silva, Cesc and even Mata changes the dynamics of the game. Each of these offer something different that the typical starters and that makes it difficult for the other team as to what look they have to deal with.

by messixaviesta Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:46 pm

BarcaKizz wrote:I disagree with the fact that Spain play all-out offense, as said, Spain are different tactically to Barca.

@ Adit: Are you convinced they need the two-man protective cushion though?? The Senna-Xavi partnership was always better and in my opinion Xavi played better there. He's played too high up now in my opinion. Busquets is tactically very aware and in particular if they play Arbeloa thats a pretty strong defensive structure. I don't really see Alonso giving enough in defense to justify him being there ahead of someone who gives more in attack.

Tbh though, this is my opinion, and I was always a bigger fan of Aragones' team anyway.

@MessiXaviesta: JD, thats a good point, I think its matter I would experiment with before the tournament with. If Llorente is in top form and its working him playing there, play him. Otherwise play Pedro. I say Pedro rather than Mata, because I think Mata won't make the same direct movements, if Xavi, Iniesta and Silva are all on there, thats enough creativity.

@Futbol_Bill: The 4 man MF is is working, but hasn't really been tested yet. Germany will be a big test. It even failed against Italy. They seem to lack cutting edge, thats why I think they should innovate.

Thanks kizz.

Indeed almost all of us liked Aragones' team more. It was more entertaining to watch and made better use of Xavi. However Senna was a very key component of that team. Since his level went down and he drifted out it has been hard to create that team again. To that let's add that Puyol has suffered aging and injury problems since then and there is a real dearth of quality center backs coming through. Can Busquets play such a huge role? At WC 2010 I don't think he was fully ready for that but now may be a different matter. At least I would like Del Bosque to experiment with a lone DM formation and see how it works. At this point I can't say for sure how much solidity will be lost and how far it would be justified by the increase in creativity and attacking play.

I agree about that forward part. As has been mentioned Pedro is not in the best of form while some others like D.Silva and Mata are doing very well. So it could depend on how things are with each player when Euro 2012 actually starts.

The current team is a tremendous dominator of possession as we all know. However it's also accepted that they do lack a cutting edge. That's why key victories are hard fought won on the basis of isolated moments of individual brilliance to go with excellent ball retention and good team play.

by messixaviesta Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:50 pm

BarcaKizz wrote:
As much as Spain deserved the WC, they were lucky... they very almost didn't go through on a number of occasions. I'm just saying I think a switch to 4-3-3 or a more offensive 4-2-3-1 could be a good move. Am I being picky? Yes, but this is the only way you make your team better... never be content with what you have.

1. Very true but perhaps every world champion at least dating back to Germany 1990 were quite lucky as well. At the same time I am glad that in almost every one of these tournaments the team that deserved the trophy most won it - at least in my opinion.

2. The last point is the very essence of Pep Guardiola. Smile

by matpol Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:56 am

Spain squad for friendlies against England (12.11) and Costa Rica (15.11):

Goalkeepers - Iker Casillas (Real Madrid), José Manuel Reina (Liverpool), Víctor Valdés (Barcelona).

Defenders - Álvaro Arbeloa (Real Madrid), Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid), Gerard Piqué (Barcelona), Jordi Alba (Valencia), Carles Puyol (Barcelona), Raúl Albiol (Real Madrid), Nacho Monreal (Málaga).

Midfielders - Xabi Alonso (Real Madrid), Sergio Busquets (Barcelona), Santiago Cazorla (Málaga), Xavi Hernández (Barcelona), Javi Martínez (Athletic Club), Cesc Fábregas (Barcelona), Andrés Iniesta (Barcelona), David Silva (Manchester City).

Forwards - David Villa (Barcelona), Fernando Llorente (Athletic Club), Fernando Torres (Chelsea), Juan Mata (Chelsea), Jesús Navas (Sevilla).

Very strong squad. Pedro is out due to injury, Thiago is in U-21 squad. Negredo is injured, Del Bosque doesn't rate Soldado and Enrique. No surprises in the squad. Finally Navas is back in the squad.

by The Franchise Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:19 pm

Why wont Puyol retire? He is getting increasingly injury prone and it will extend his career if he stopped.

He has won it all too, whats the motivation at this point?

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:23 pm

To win Euro + WC + Euro in a successive manner.

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