Pressi Mbappe: The monster QSG made

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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:49 pm

I still dont fully understand how it is Liverpool let Mane like that... n why wouldnt a top club like Liverpool be able to have 2 super stars in the team? Thats pretty much part n parcel of being a top team/club I thought Razz

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Post by sportsczy Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:05 pm

Doc wrote:As much as I love the basketball spin on this topic, I am 101% positive Sports had a big grin when writing this line:

"Is he anti-establishment? Absolutely. He wants to take the power away from clubs and put them in players' hands"

Mbappe, as with the likes of Lebron, KD, Harden or any sports star, does anything only for the benefit of themselves. Anti-establishment doesn't have you play for PSG ran by an absolute fucking monarchy.

PSG is absolutely not "establishment" in the football world.  Staying at the club went against every established path for an elite footballer who could go anywhere he wanted...

Anti-establishment means standing in opposition of convention.  Mbappe has certainly done that over the last several years.  Fighting FFF over sponsors, staying at PSG over Madrid, dating a trans model (Ines Rau), ...

Not saying that I agree with his decisions.  I don't frankly...  none of them.  But I respect a person's right to make the choices for themselves. You can't say that he's choosing the established easy path to life lol.
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:04 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:I still dont fully understand how it is Liverpool let Mane like that... n why wouldnt a top club like Liverpool be able to have 2 super stars in the team? Thats pretty much part n parcel of being a top team/club I thought Razz


It’s a question of understanding the economics of today’s game. Reality is there are less than 10 clubs (2 in Spain, one in Germany and one in France, rest are in EPL) that can buy and pay the top players. Generally the salary structure is such that even the bottom dwellers on these teams are paid higher than others teams in general making it difficult to move underperformers. They generally, depending on country and basic business principles have to keep the true gross salary load (not the net that is usually reported) within the club’s operating income as well as other operating expenses. Of the 10 clubs, even with the EPL television revenues, not all of them have the same budget capacity such as City, Man U and perhaps Chelsea (depends on new owner) have.
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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:33 pm

But they go n splash out for Darwin Nunez? Doesnt make sense if its about budget...
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:38 pm

You’re confusing acquisition costs (which are generally from capital budgets) with operating costs.
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Post by halamadrid2 Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:09 pm



Imagine having the gall to claim RM made a similar offer or was it better? I can't even remember the utter lies team Mbapay were spewing throughout this whole saga
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:13 pm

Yes, I remember laughing out loud when their president claimed that Madrid had made a similar offer.

It's like bro, if you are going to tell a lie, at least make sure it's believable.
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:34 pm

Not only lies, but how in hell is this within FFP?

Because Ceferrin has made his “friend”  Nasser Al-Khelaifi chairman of FFP Uefa committee! That’s like Trump being appointed judge for his multiple legal cases!

Al-Khelaifi recently questioned the legality of Barca’s selling off future income to be able to buy players to revamp their squad?

So much hypocrisy with PSG (and most of Sport’s comments on this whole affair)!
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Post by sportsczy Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:26 pm



Last edited by sportsczy on Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by sportsczy Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:28 pm

After learning the details... be mad at Qatar, not him. Only an idiot would turn down that kind of money over 3 years. He'll be 25 when it's over ffs.
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Post by sportsczy Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:09 pm

@Bill. Since 2018, the net transfer amount of PSG (buys and sells) has been an outlay of $243 million total. That's $60 million a season.

Go to transfermkt to see details.

That's why they can afford it. Based on revenue and profitability, they can afford roughly $125+ million every year. So they actually have at least $260 million in additional cash flow that they can use on bonuses and wages.

You also have Icardi and Draxler coming off the books after this year ($15 million annually).

When you actually do the math, they can afford it. Not for long though. They have to get rid of one of Neymar or Messi after this season, according to reports.
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Post by sportsczy Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:15 pm

I also think that Madrid made a bigger offer from a total amount perspective... but over 5 or 6 years, not 3 years.

It's a bit of spin.  But Mbappe said that Madrid contract was "larger", which it likely was in raw numbers.  Not a lie.
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:33 pm

I realize they are getting around FFP in terms of net acquisition costs by spreading out costs over multiple years but also as well because neither France nor Uefa have solid rules regarding gross salary load within ‘futbol’ operating budget. As you said multiple times before UEFA FFP is a joke and making Al-Khelaifi in charge of it makes it utter preposterous.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:55 am

France 100% does.  Most recent example is Bordeaux that almost ended up in the 3rd division this past year:

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/ligue-1-bordeaux-sent-to-third-tier-saint-etienne-raided-by-police-in-post-relegation-financial-fallout/#:~:text=Ligue%201%3A%20Bordeaux%20sent%20to,relegation%20financial%20fallout%20%2D%20CBSSports.com

The nuance is that Ligue 1 requires a bank guarantee to support all the clubs' contracts on an annual basis.... not just players, every employee.  PSG doesn't have an issue getting an annual bank guarantee.  Nothing to do with revenue.

The rule is geared towards protecting employees from bad management and only that. The timeframe is season by season.

If you can't do it, automatic relegation.  There's nothing else.  So Bordeaux got relegated in the example above to Ligue 2 and had trouble getting the bank guarantee.  So they almost ended up in the 3rd division automatically.  They scratched together at the last second.
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:04 am

My issue with FFP is different than yours... i think that it's designed to keep the elite, elite, and make the barrier to becoming a top club almost impossible.

That's nonsense.

Either implement a salary cap on teams (impossible without unionizing players which clubs and agents don't want) or use the same system as in France.  Namely, if you guarantee all the costs of a club for a season, you can spend as much as you want.

If you want to put a cap... make the maximum no more than 5% above the next largest payroll (or something like that).  Don't make it revenue because elite clubs will always grow revenue faster.  Smaller clubs have no chance of catching up.
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Post by halamadrid2 Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:51 am

sportsczy wrote:I also think that Madrid made a bigger offer from a total amount perspective... but over 5 or 6 years, not 3 years.

It's a bit of spin.  But Mbappe said that Madrid contract was "larger", which it likely was in raw numbers.  Not a lie.
how do you figure? We offered 30ME a year plus 180ME signing on bonus. We don't do loyalty bonuses. We probably have bonuses for winning balon d'or like the rest of the squad. So even with those numbers he'd still fall far short of his current deal with QSG.

It's pathetic of his family to straight up lie to save face
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Post by FennecFox7 Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:51 am

BarcaLearning wrote:I still dont fully understand how it is Liverpool let Mane like that... n why wouldnt a top club like Liverpool be able to have 2 super stars in the team? Thats pretty much part n parcel of being a top team/club I thought Razz


Mane wanted to leave. He wanted a new challenge.


To the mbappe situation. We don’t know if all the reports  are true. This feels a lot like the CR situation at Man U where the media turned the fans on the player, even though said player didn’t do anything wrong.

But is he really demanding much? He’s asking to play in his best position (I still think that’s as a CF myself but he thinks otherwise), and wants to get rid of players not focused in the team. There’s no question the guy has an ego. He did bother me with some of his antics. I have no idea what that shit was about.

Also, Neymar was on party mode and crap with his professionalism. Mbappe’s urge to remove him looks bad in hindsight, but the form he’s in wasn’t anything people expected. No player should have the right to “remove” someone from a club btw, that’s just retard stuff from PSG, but you gotta admit, he had it right there with Neymar.
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Post by titosantill Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:47 pm

Of course psg and team mbappe wud say madrid offered something similar or more. No player comes out to say "I madr my decision because of money", and to me there's nothing wrong in saying that. I've heard shaq say he went to LA because of money, but he only said that after he retired.

I mean we always hear the same spiel "club x offered me more but I chose club y" . It's just as cliche as players going to the presser and saying "we need to play as a team and play hard (or 'suffer' a lot as la Liga players say). Not a big deal, lol everyone knew psg offered him a super contract
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:17 pm

sportsczy wrote:My issue with FFP is different than yours... i think that it's designed to keep the elite, elite, and make the barrier to becoming a top club almost impossible.

That's nonsense.

Either implement a salary cap on teams (impossible without unionizing players which clubs and agents don't want) or use the same system as in France.  Namely, if you guarantee all the costs of a club for a season, you can spend as much as you want.

If you want to put a cap... make the maximum no more than 5% above the next largest payroll (or something like that).  Don't make it revenue because elite clubs will always grow revenue faster.  Smaller clubs have no chance of catching up.


In España, the gross salary load has to be less than a percentage of income, I think it’s 75%.

I think that should be a UEFA requirement as part of FFP.

If that was the case, we would only be arguing about what makes up ‘income’!
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Post by sportsczy Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:15 pm

Income is the wrong qualifier.  It should be a total salary number and it can't be less than the highest salaried team.  Force the team to guarantee the year with a bank note for security.  Otherwise, it creates a ceiling for everyone except the elite.  That "75% over income" is just an arbitrary number. What if a deep pockets new owner comes in and wants to invest heavily? Why shouldn't this person be able to?
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:21 pm

You’re looking for FFP that works for everyone or at least for potential investors! Your proposal above won’t work as to set it to PSG salary load, as you proposed, makes it way in excess of what most clubs income as well as in excess of their value which is the max a legitimate investor would want to pay?

FFP was to stop foolish financial behavior by clubs (big and small) preventing them from bankruptcy and consequent issues. They went after acquisition costs but ignored salary load!
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:44 pm

FFP is ilegal and anti competitive, so UEFA can't enforce it, otherwise it will get challenged in court and the whole house of cards comes down
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Post by futbol_bill Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:52 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:FFP is ilegal and anti competitive, so UEFA can't enforce it, otherwise it will get challenged in court and the whole house of cards comes down


It isn’t illegal! It is considered by some to be, but has never been contested in court!

Meanwhile UEFA keeps up their sham investigations, chaired by the president of the club that has been investigated the most!
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:57 am

It is illegal. Imagine in any other industry being told "you can't invest as much as you want into your business or you might get an unfair advantage". It's ridiculous. No serious court could uphold it. It's why they always settle.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:15 am

It's directly contrary to EU's charter.  Article 101 to be exact:

Article 101 is designed to combat “anti-competitive agreements between undertakings … [and] prevent an informal group of undertakings or a more formal association of undertakings from agreeing together to act in an anti-competitive manner”.

Article 101 reads as follows:

The following shall be prohibited as incompatible with the internal market: all agreements between undertakings, decisions by associations of undertakings and concerted practices which may affect trade between Member States and which have as their object or effect the prevention, restriction or distortion of competition within the internal market, and in particular those which:

(a) directly or indirectly fix purchase or selling prices or any other trading conditions;

(b) limit or control production, markets, technical development, or investment;

(c) share markets or sources of supply;

(d) apply dissimilar conditions to equivalent transactions with other trading parties, thereby placing them at a competitive disadvantage;

(e) make the conclusion of contracts subject to acceptance by the other parties of supplementary obligations which, by their nature or according to commercial usage, have no connection with the subject of such contracts.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_101_of_the_Treaty_on_the_Functioning_of_the_European_Union

As BC mentioned, they've never taken it so far to allow for a formal ruling against FFP.  The implications would be too broad.  So they always negotiate and settle.  The whole thing cannot have any legal teeth because it has no legal basis.
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Post by futbol_bill Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:46 pm

Then tell me why they keep up these sham investigations with PSG chairing the reviews?

P.s. you’re basically saying Perez’s argument for super league, that Uefa is a monopoly
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