EURO 2020 - R16 : Italy - Austria

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Post by El Gunner Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:49 am

they were good in the first half, should have done better in the final third to get a goal or two. Ultimately their forward line will probably let them down.

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Post by sportsczy Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:19 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Thought Italy were supposed to be great?

Turns out they're kind of trash

Hans... call me crazy, i like your squad. Low will kill you; but that team has talent.
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Post by Robespierre Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:15 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Thought Italy were supposed to be great?

Turns out they're kind of trash


Meh, this can be applied for every NT Laughing

Germany and France tied against Hungary, England against Scotland etc

Italy are a very good NT, not for a final victory, that'd be relevant and overperfoming, but one of best NTs anyway

As I said it, attack is weakness.

Players as Insigne and Immobile are useless on highest level.

This NT 's carried by midfield , and defence also is going good , Spinazzola best RB in the tournament ( and the only one Italy brillaint player yesterday) , Donnarumma is a great GK etc
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Post by Robespierre Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:32 am

Wow, not used to see an Italian player speaking a perfect English even though he's never played in UK

https://video.corriere.it/sport/europei/federico-chiesa-intervista-tv-straniere-suo-inglese-perfetto/66bb8310-d71c-11eb-9da9-c034b537f36a
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:33 am

@Robespierre wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:Thought Italy were supposed to be great?

Turns out they're kind of trash


Meh, this can be applied for every NT Laughing



Absolutely, yes. Only mediocre teams all around, it just sounded like Italy was the upward outlier of this tournament after the first games, but apparently not really.
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Post by Jesp Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:05 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:Thought Italy were supposed to be great?

Turns out they're kind of trash


Meh, this can be applied for every NT Laughing



Absolutely, yes. Only mediocre teams all around, it just sounded like Italy was the upward outlier of this tournament after the first games, but apparently not really.


Italy are better off being not taken seriously. They were the enemies by their own right yesterday. I am bit worried but cautiously optimistic that they will still deliver against big teams but there is a dilemma perhaps that berardi or insigne shouldnt start or maybe veratti shouldnt start .. maybe chiesa and locatelli should.

we will see, italians have never been taken seriously by anyone, i guess we are all used to this
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Post by Jesp Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:06 am

@Robespierre wrote:Wow, not used to see an Italian player speaking a perfect English even though he's never played in UK

https://video.corriere.it/sport/europei/federico-chiesa-intervista-tv-straniere-suo-inglese-perfetto/66bb8310-d71c-11eb-9da9-c034b537f36a


pretty impressive Smile
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Post by Jesp Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:08 am

@El Gunner wrote:they were good in the first half, should have done better in the final third to get a goal or two. Ultimately their forward line will probably let them down.


yea it boils down to which insigne or immobile we are going to get. but seriously chiesa needs to start. as italians are facing big teams who will push forward and that in turn will give them opportunity upfront.

berardi and insigne were too slow and lacked conviction .. chiesa is more direct straightforward.
in this respect italians miss zaniolo real bad this game.

i guess also rincon already stated this but this was very bad decision by mancini not to bring politano and bernardeschi gets a call up instead
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Post by Jesp Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:12 am

@sportsczy wrote:Don't get me wrong, I like how Italy plays (which is such a strange thing for me to say given history).  BUT, the fullbacks are a bit reckless imo and the CBs+Holding Mids don't inspire confidence for me to cover that against the other elite NTs.  

Imagine your fullbacks bombing up all the time and you have to deal with CR, Mbappe, etc who have the midfielders on their team to get them the ball quickly.  


there were signs defo but i expect italians to be a bit more conservative when facing the likes of France or Portugal / Belgium. Austrians later came on with nothing to loose and italians pounced in numbers upfront. they just lacked conviction in this game but for too long.

i hated that insigne and berardi were trying all sort of non necessary moves and not being direct enough
therefore chiesa has to start. thats not even a question at this point
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Post by rincon Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:13 am

I wouldn't fault Immobile much yesterday. Insigne, Berardi and Barella were worse. Austria completely closed spaces and they had no answers when those are exactly the players we need to unlock a situation.

I don't think we will see another match this tournament in which they are this out of space/ideas. Belgium or Portugal play more open matches in both directions, more danger for Italy but also easier for them to create opportunities.

Chiesa, Locatelli and Pessina making hell of a case to start the next match.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:44 am

No Locatelli meant the Austrian midfield punched way above their weight class. Pretty good game!
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Post by Robespierre Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:54 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:Thought Italy were supposed to be great?

Turns out they're kind of trash


Meh, this can be applied for every NT Laughing



Absolutely, yes. Only mediocre teams all around, it just sounded like Italy was the upward outlier of this tournament after the first games, but apparently not really.


Ah I agree on it, Italy is on same range as France,Germany etc
Yes,  Italy played a better group, but looking at group too. Easy opponents , and Italy always played at Rome
For example Germany at home but  against   the strongest team of the tournament ( France) , France tied against Hungary at Budapest , even  in a full  stadium given that Covid 's been won according to the Orban propaganda

For once I agree with Tancredi Palmeri when he wrote that best NT of the tournament so far was Belgium
They had to travel too much too, it's not detail compared with playing at own stadium comfortably

(But  I don't agree about worst disappointment anyway, he said Scotland, I don't get why those expecations about Scots. For me the biggest disappointment of the Euro 2020 was Poland by far ... )
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Post by Babun Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:08 pm

@Robespierre wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Robespierre wrote:


Meh, this can be applied for every NT Laughing



Absolutely, yes. Only mediocre teams all around, it just sounded like Italy was the upward outlier of this tournament after the first games, but apparently not really.


Ah I agree on it, Italy is on same range as France,Germany etc

I disagree, Italy isn't on the same page as the ones you mentioned. Also add Belgium and Portugal above. I watched your game yesterday, your team struggles a lot against physical teams specially Verratti and Barella. Immobile was immobile and invisible. Belotti is a forward with an awful finishing but he plays more physical, holds and shields the ball very well, makes runs, binds more than one defender at a time and doesn't stand around waiting for the ball. He elevated your game so the midfielders and wingers had more space to attack. You may struggle vs Protugal/Belgium, in semis vs. France definiatly game over.
Chiesa, Locatelli etc. weren't magically better than substitutes, their counter parts were tired. Austria didn't have the bench depth Italy does.
Your defence and bench depth are the main plus points of this team. You'd be a title contender with a deadly striker who you don't have.
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Post by El Gunner Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:44 pm

^^ehh you purely based that on one game last night, and completely ignore the three games before that and their 31-match unbeaten run with great defense it seems.
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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:02 pm

Terrible game by Italia last night.

I am no prophet by any means but have clamoured on about how Italy when they will face a different challenge will show to not know what to do in such moments.

Austria through their physicality gave their midfield a lot of problems and were dominant in large stretches of the 2nd half.


Italy as a result lost their gameplan and reactively tried to directly attack the goal like Austria, not knowing their strengths are in careful build up of possession and passes.

Mancini's changes in extra-time are what changed the team as missed chances initially mean nothing given their gameplan was dismantled by Austria.

And their poor reaction to it is what I was worried about.

Call it a blessing in disguise but this is just the wake-up call they needed before Belgium/Portugal.

And I do not see them going through. Belgium is a good team and pound for pound better individually. Portugal have Euro winning experience and Cristiano Ronaldo.

Individually speaking I did not like Mancini's selections.

Cheillini out fine, but why Acerbi over Bastoni. Acerbi simply holds experience above him and did little to calm their backline.

Bastoni is 6'5 and could have better nullified airborne threats by the Austrians.


And maybe I am missing something but Berardi has been unimpressive all tournament. Does little on the right hand side and Chiesa has looked better than him each time when he is on and we are not talking about the goal.

Immobile was not fitting in as yes he had that top-corner post shot but seemed disconnected from the front-line as he is used to leading a counter-attacking side better not possession-based.

Belotti never looks like he is about to score for Azzurri but held the ball well when he came on and exhausted himself in sacrifice.


Insigne I do not agree with. Looked very impressive in 2nd half when no one was causing a threat as if anything his threat was causing questions in the Austrian backline and lets not forget he played a huge hand in creating both goals.


The pass to Chiesa was from him and he created the play leading to the second one.

Berardi must go for Chiesa but Insigne I prefer on.

Verratti against physical teams just gets nullified. Locatelli should have come on earlier.


Very worried for the next game as Italy will be better against Portugal and hope they face them instead as Belgium are just scary.
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Post by El Gunner Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:29 pm

if Immobile is better in a counter attacking game, then Belgium might not be such bad opposition to face

you make a solid point on Insigne, besides the point that who do you actually replace him with that will do better. And yea, Chiesa over Berardi at this point is pretty clear.
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Post by Robespierre Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:09 pm

Well I agree with a good number of things written by Arq

Italy suffered seriously Austria, we risked even to concede goal in 2nd half, extra-time was a sort of blessing and for first time in its history ( yes, really) Italy have won a match on extra-time

Credit to Austria though

We've often criticized this " large" formula because there are scrubs NTs  but Austria represented a good message in this tournament

Knocked out, but head-on, playing a good football and showing off talent.

About some choices , obstinacy on Berardi is apparently weird, but tbf matches last 90 + minutes and Chiesa can be incisive as subber than Berardi. Berardi is legit just as starter. Problem is yesterday.. he was incredibly bad.

Barella and Jorginho looked like tired and Verratti is not fit .
Mancini hasn't courage to bench Verratti but honestly this Euro Italy found his dimension without him ... and perhaps it should come back to this


Last edited by Robespierre on Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by RealGunner Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:10 pm

Italy looks like a side that is waiting to get an ass whopping at some point.
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Post by Babun Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:56 pm

@El Gunner wrote:^^ehh you purely based that on one game last night

yes
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Post by sportsczy Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:07 pm

I think people don't understand the beauty of NT football.  None of the teams are manufactured.  You play with the talent that you have...  so there will always be flaws.  As a result, games are unpredictable.

I love it.

You really can't compare it with club football where every squad is manufactured (by definition) and money does all the talking.
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Post by Superstone Mariomintsch Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:33 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I think people don't understand the beauty of NT football.  None of the teams are manufactured.  You play with the talent that you have...  so there will always be flaws.  As a result, games are unpredictable.

I love it.

You really can't compare it with club football where every squad is manufactured (by definition) and money does all the talking.

I'm with you. I love summer international tournaments.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:38 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:Thought Italy were supposed to be great?

Turns out they're kind of trash

Hans... call me crazy, i like your squad.  Low will kill you; but that team has talent.


Well sure, lots of CL wins in it. Neuer, Hummels, Müller, Gündogan, Kroos, all seasoned world class players, veritable GOATs in the case of Neuer and Müller.
Then Kimmich, Goretzka, Gnabry, Sané, then Havertz, Rüdiger. Werner. Musiala

Obviously a greater squad than any other team in terms of the old guard, no comparison. Also obviously, the French young guard is much better in depth.

Full backs are the problem which is why we play the dumb 5 man defense as Löw doesn't know how else to make it work. Striker is a problem as we have NONE.
These problems are serious.
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Post by VivaStPauli Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:04 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I think people don't understand the beauty of NT football.  None of the teams are manufactured.  You play with the talent that you have...  so there will always be flaws.  As a result, games are unpredictable.

I love it.

You really can't compare it with club football where every squad is manufactured (by definition) and money does all the talking.


Agree 100%, love it.
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Post by M99 Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:11 pm

Jota being wasteful again.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:02 am

3 great games in a row, one mediocre one where they still could have easily put to bed in the 1st half if not for some poor decisions by the forwards and suddenly, they are a trash, weak naive team Laughing

Crazy.

Its NT football, they are a new team who are yet to achieve anything together who almost nobody actually had winning the tournament, you'd expect some difficult moments surely?

I think as has been the case forever, Bonnuci needs Cheillini next to him, he just seems more confident and focused when he's around. Though I do think Bastoni is better than Astori and am a little surprised he hasnt been given the run.

I think Veratti wasnt ready for this game, he started ok, but got frustrated by the physicality and the refs not giving many of those small foul calls this tournament.

Good subs though I think, Chiesa to me is bringing more to the game than Berardi right now and Pessina is a good alternative to Barella.

Belgium will of course be tough, they have the tools to give Italy problems and a coach who will have a great gameplan for them. But, they will have the ball, they will have the opportunities to create and I think Italy will expect better game from the forwards who to me were very poor with their decision making in the final third.
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Post by Arquitecto Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:13 am

@The Franchise wrote:3 great games in a row, one mediocre one where they still could have easily put to bed in the 1st half if not for some poor decisions by the forwards and suddenly, they are a trash, weak naive team Laughing

Crazy.

Its NT football, they are a new team who are yet to achieve anything together who almost nobody actually had winning the tournament, you'd expect some difficult moments surely?

I think as has been the case forever, Bonnuci needs Cheillini next to him, he just seems more confident and focused when he's around. Though I do think Bastoni is better than Astori and am a little surprised he hasnt been given the run.

I think Veratti wasnt ready for this game, he started ok, but got frustrated by the physicality and the refs not giving many of those small foul calls this tournament.

Good subs though I think, Chiesa to me is bringing more to the game than Berardi right now and Pessina is a good alternative to Barella.

Belgium will of course be tough, they have the tools to give Italy problems and a coach who will have a great gameplan for them. But, they will have the ball, they will have the opportunities to create and I think Italy will expect better game from the forwards who to me were very poor with their decision making in the final third.



Yes the hyperbole on them is just stupid but the bigger point was how they would react should they face a different challenge and they reacted a bit too late for my liking, despite the win. The win means little to me given what can come ahead for them.

Verratti does not respond well to physicality given he is basically 5'1 and a frail but usually does dance himself out of situations yet that is hindered, by his unfitness due to his lingering injury.


Bonucci does look better with Chiellini simply because the latter compliments Bonucci well and lets him do his passing work from the back, and at times covers gaps that Bonucci is prone to missing. Chiellini hopefully will recover for Belgium but the partner that needs to be with Bonucci (should Chiellini be unfit) is Bastoni who's a 22 year old future CB star. The partner for Bonucci vs Austria was Acerbi, not Astori.

Astori is dead lol.

Acerbi is quite good but looks in awe of this level given most of his career has been mid-table. Bastoni suffers from pace and strength issues but reads the game on the dot.
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