Re: The Racism Thread

[Myesyats]

Tie the benefits to economic status. If it means majority of the benefit goes to families of color then fine, it is deserved based on merit. To single out any race is racist doesnt matter if you're well-meaning. If it was racist back then, it is racist now.

Easy target for the GOP to signal to poor whites, imo. And they're already doing it, Fox was all over it

[Babun]

Oakland Mayor Libby Schaaf announced this week that the city will launch a guaranteed income project to give hundreds of Black and Indigenous families and people of color $500 per month for 18 months.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/24/us/oakland-low-income-bipoc-guaranteed-income-trnd/index.html


What about poor whites???? System based solely on racial criteria is racist

Non-whites have been specifically b left out of public social programs, investments and subventions over decades and centuries.
Many public welfare problems that kept the white poor from becoming "socialist" (LOL), most notably the New Deal, which included subsidized loans for house mortgages and stuff like that, were explicitly racist i.e. not available to non whites, creating a massive, systemic economic gap and a continued suppression of non white economic opportunities. A racist wealth gap which propagates itself.

OF COURSE at some point you have to make specific, targeted investment in nonwhite communities in order to even start to make up for that

that's not racist, it's the definition of antiracist

Excluding a group because of race is racism at its core. You can argue however you want "whites" of today weren't the ones who put those discriminatory practices against minorities in place. You don't fight injustice with injustice under a pretentious name. The help should be based on income like myesyats said.

@video
The disturbing part isn't violence or mugging by a black against other groups including their own, for they don't treat any group differently (according to the crime statistics). Here is the deviation, a mixed dude deliberately attacks an elderly Asian woman in front of a church (!), the other two look away instead of helping her then close the church doors as if nothing happened. Martin Luther King would turn in disgust in his grave at the sight.
That's supposed to be a church for f***'s sake. There's something very wrong going on at least in that black community.

[Arquitecto]

https://www.tmz.com/2021/03/29/nypd-investigating-asian-man-beat-up-subway-video/


Sorry for the tacky link just a quick one I could find.

Above is a Black-American man who brutalised an Asian-American in the Subway of New York City.

Now it is generally agreed that Black-Americans get the brunt of the worst in USA and that I will not disagree upon nor does it matter.

But the above video is getting close to no attention, despite things like these happen quite often yet we know if he was white it would be a completely different story.

Someone else will come up and give a different perspective and I admit my side, is mostly anecdotal at best.


But it speaks for the media attention difference to which does denote a clear double standard that is forming within the spectrum racial violence.

[McLewis]

I saw the video and honestly I'm not surprised it's not getting much play.

Media is a ratings game. There are no ratings in a black man assaulting a non-white person, unless its Fox News, OANN, or Newsmax. There aren't even ratings in a black man assaulting a white person, only with those networks. When the shoe is on the other foot, the ratings are there obviously. What I think gets lost in the shuffle here is that the media will show the stories they believe people want to see based on the viewing data that drives their ratings. There are whole algorithms and data forecasts that drive these decisions at an executive. It's purely about the ratings, which means its purely about money.

This is why I cringe even when they give so much coverage to the deaths of black men at the hands of cops or just white people in general. It's not genuine. It's simply them following their data models in order to accumulate as much ratings, and thus revenue, as possible. It's why there is so much coverage on mass shootings. The exact same models are being used because they know people will watch that coverage and drive revenue to them.

Want to see who actually cares about this stuff? You need to dig deeper than just the verifieds on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. The interest is there.  

Want to see equal media weight given to both of these scenarios? Make media less of a revenue generating operation and return them to their original state of just reporting the news. Champion media outlets that are all about just reporting factual news without the whataboutisms.

[Babun]

https://www.tmz.com/2021/03/29/nypd-investigating-asian-man-beat-up-subway-video/


Sorry for the tacky link just a quick one I could find.

Above is a Black-American man who brutalised an Asian-American in the Subway of New York City.

Now it is generally agreed that Black-Americans get the brunt of the worst in USA and that I will not disagree upon nor does it matter.

But the above video is getting close to no attention, despite things like these happen quite often yet we know if he was white it would be a completely different story.

Someone else will come up and give a different perspective and I admit my side, is mostly anecdotal at best.


But it speaks for the media attention difference to which does denote a clear double standard that is forming within the spectrum racial violence.

That one looks like a daylight robbery with victim resistance. I don't see any racially motivated actions in this case other than the perpetrator was black and the victim asian looking.



Those are bulletproof 100% hate crimes.

[Warrior]

Plot twist: he's a white dude with face paint

[Babun]

Plot twist: he's a white dude with face paint

Mixed says it all. I'm more appalled by how the two security peeps in the church didn't help and closed the door. They might be pissing their pants but after the perpetrator went away they could've at least checked whether she's ok. They aren't christians, they're nothing!

[Warrior]

Security guards deserve their faces and names on national TV

[Myesyats]

Why is it america every time though. Does this happen anywhere else? In Poland things like these never happen for someone to be beat in the street like that let alone a woman yet there violence seems regular and not surprising anymore.

[McLewis]

It happens everywhere. It's just a lot easier to capture it as its happening here in America.

[Warrior]

Denis Villeneuve is now famous Hollywood director. One of his first films depicts a mass shooting in 1989 with 14 victims inside an engineering school, the shooter had misogynist motives.

Also some bum on a psychosis attempted to kill the newly elected prime minister a decade ago, he hated women and sovereigntists and she happened to be both. Also some brainwashed alt right nerd who killed 6 muslims in a mosque, this was just a few years ago.

Mass shootings have occured in my province although it's not even close to the widespeard violence in USA. The "minor" assaults like this asian lady suffered... it happens here too... but even from the inside we don't hear such news frequently as from USA. I don't know for the rest of Canada but i assume if it occured daily we would hear from it. The social climate is not one of hostility here. Let's just say your chances of getting shot at Walmart are drastically lower.

[Thimmy]

Why is it america every time though. Does this happen anywhere else? In Poland things like these never happen for someone to be beat in the street like that let alone a woman yet there violence seems regular and not surprising anymore.

It's extremely uncommon here, but we've had at least one racially motivated murder/attempt of non- ethnic Norwegians since the "Utøya massacre" by Anders Behring Breivik. 2 or 3 years ago, some guy named Manshaus- something killed his own, adopted, Chinese sister for bringing attention to the fact that he'd been becoming increasingly radicalized through the internet and by members of some fundamentally religious sect, of all things




After murdering her with guns that seem to have been bought through the deep web, he went to a local mosque and started shooting it up, but failed to kill anyone. As if that wasn't embarrassing enough, the members of the mosque managed to subdue him and pin him to the ground after beating him up badly (see picture above). His profile and life story is ridiculously similar to that of Breivik, and they both proclaimed themselves as nazis to the press.

They were both bullied as kids, had issues with their parents (Manshaus lost his mom before he turned 5), and became socially isolated, later radicalized mainly through the internet. Manshaus later got bullied/roasted by foreign, far-right extremists on social media. A local journalist described him as "a failed terrorist who killed his own sister". If you thought he looked punchable after he'd taken a beating, look at this sociopathic mug.

[McLewis]

I think what gets lost in the "America is a nation of immigrants" narrative is that it was those same immigrants that came here from the old country (Europe) with the learned culture of their ancestors. Baked into that culture was the inherent bigotry visited upon people not from Europe, who were considered savage and barbaric. We call that racism these days.

It's why it blows my mind when Europe is portrayed as less racist than America. Where do people think Americans learned their racism from in the first place? . Racism is learned. It is not genetic. And in America, it has been passed down generation to generation.

I plan on visiting Europe someday and while I'm tempted to stay in the less homogenous countries like the UK, France, Germany, etc....there are so many historical sites I want to see in more homogenous countries in Eastern Europe like Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, etc. Black people aren't particularly numerous in these countries so the prospect of getting stares is not something I've made my peace with yet.

I've been looking for black travelers on social media to follow so I can learn more about their experiencing traveling abroad.

[Myesyats]

The police won't shoot you here. Definitely less to fear than in america. On average you are around 3.5x more likely to be murdered in the US and probably even more if you're black.



This looks 10x scarier than anywhere in the EU.

[Thimmy]

I think what gets lost in the "America is a nation of immigrants" narrative is that it was those same immigrants that came here from the old country (Europe) with the learned culture of their ancestors. Baked into that culture was the inherent bigotry visited upon people not from Europe, who were considered savage and barbaric. We call that racism these days.

It's why it blows my mind when Europe is portrayed as less racist than America. Where do people think Americans learned their racism from in the first place? . Racism is learned. It is not genetic. And in America, it has been passed down generation to generation.

I plan on visiting Europe someday and while I'm tempted to stay in the less homogenous countries like the UK, France, Germany, etc....there are so many historical sites I want to see in more homogenous countries in Eastern Europe like Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, etc. Black people aren't particularly numerous in these countries so the prospect of getting stares is not something I've made my peace with yet.

I've been looking for black travelers on social media to follow so I can learn more about their experiencing traveling abroad.

I would recommend visiting the Czech Republic. It's a pretty homogenous, Eastern European country, but they're used to tourists of different cultures and ethnicities. Food and accommodation are cheap, and it's just a fun place to be in, overall. I think you'd enjoy your stay there.

I may be wrong, but I get the impression that racism is most rampant in the most multicultural, European cities. That impression has been supported by people I've talked to who live there.

This is purely based on hearsay and impressions, but the type of treatment you risk facing in the most extremely homogenous countries will likely be more related to ignorance than xenophobia or racism. They're just not used to being around people who look different, and even if there's no ill intent, they might come off as insensitive or lacking in social IQ.

I went to Tallinn, Estonia together with a few colleagues a few years back, and one of those colleagues is a fairly dark-skinned guy from Thailand. We all thought it was funny that waiters, people on the street, and even cab drivers looked funny at him or acted awkwardly around him. He didn't seem to be offended by it, we all brushed it off as banter, but I can imagine how that would make some people feel uncomfortable. They didn't do anything wrong, but they certainly singled him out for attention.

A similar thing happened to me when I was in a smaller town in South Korea. People were super nice to both me and my girlfriend, but a lot of people we walked by on the streets blatantly stared at us to the point where I decided to go out of my way to stare back at one person to see if it would make them stop doing it, and the other guy still didn't flinch - he just kept staring

It may be trivial, but that became increasingly annoying, the longer we stayed there. It made me miss the low population density we have here in Norway. It's so much easier to avoid people when the streets aren't crowded everywhere.

[rincon]

I think what gets lost in the "America is a nation of immigrants" narrative is that it was those same immigrants that came here from the old country (Europe) with the learned culture of their ancestors. Baked into that culture was the inherent bigotry visited upon people not from Europe, who were considered savage and barbaric. We call that racism these days.

It's why it blows my mind when Europe is portrayed as less racist than America. Where do people think Americans learned their racism from in the first place? . Racism is learned. It is not genetic. And in America, it has been passed down generation to generation.

I plan on visiting Europe someday and while I'm tempted to stay in the less homogenous countries like the UK, France, Germany, etc....there are so many historical sites I want to see in more homogenous countries in Eastern Europe like Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, etc. Black people aren't particularly numerous in these countries so the prospect of getting stares is not something I've made my peace with yet.

I've been looking for black travelers on social media to follow so I can learn more about their experiencing traveling abroad.

While it happens everywhere, among developed countries the US is an outlier. EU is much less dangerous for basically every violent crime than the US by a good margin.

The attitudes are very different. There are examples like the one Thimmy posted but that is usually a shock, as opposed to the routine nature of these things in the US.

[Myesyats]

Homogenous countries are the safest. Finland is considered the safest in Europe.

[Hapless_Hans]

Homogenous countries are the safest. Finland is considered the safest in Europe.

Replace "homogenous" with "little economic disparity" and your onto something

[elitedam]

While it happens everywhere, among developed countries the US is an outlier. EU is much less dangerous for basically every violent crime than the US by a good margin.

Do you have a source for that?

I read an article a while back that said something like the US has similar crime rates (including some violent crimes) to other developed countries but the prevalence of guns makes things a lot more lethal.

But it's been some time and I could be wrong. It would be something interesting to look at if someone has any recent data.

[elitedam]

Also, I feel like there's less racism in multicultural cities. It's harder to hate groups of people when you have more contact with them.

[rincon]

While it happens everywhere, among developed countries the US is an outlier. EU is much less dangerous for basically every violent crime than the US by a good margin.

Do you have a source for that?

I read an article a while back that said something like the US has similar crime rates (including some violent crimes) to other developed countries but the prevalence of guns makes things a lot more lethal.

But it's been some time and I could be wrong. It would be something interesting to look at if someone has any recent data.

Most or all sources would confirm
For example homicide rates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

US 4.96
Norway 0.47
Poland 0.73
Germany 0.95
France 1.20
EU average 1.23
Belgium 1.70

From 10 to 4 times more likely to get murdered.

The problem with other types of violent crime is the difference in definitions and reporting

Here there is a table for reported violent crime in general
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Violent_crime

[Babun]

While it happens everywhere, among developed countries the US is an outlier. EU is much less dangerous for basically every violent crime than the US by a good margin.

Do you have a source for that?

I read an article a while back that said something like the US has similar crime rates (including some violent crimes) to other developed countries but the prevalence of guns makes things a lot more lethal.

But it's been some time and I could be wrong. It would be something interesting to look at if someone has any recent data.

Most or all sources would confirm
For example homicide rates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

US 4.96
Norway 0.47
Poland 0.73
Germany 0.95
France 1.20
EU average 1.23
Belgium 1.70

From 10 to 4 times more likely to get murdered.

Compared to violent crimes, in europe theft is more common.

Theft is done on a huge scale but in a sneaky way and mostly in tourist sites like Barcelona, Mallorca etc. The victim doesn't notice anything. Theft in the way of a bully or a group mugging someone is extremly rare.

[Arquitecto]

I saw the video and honestly I'm not surprised it's not getting much play.

Media is a ratings game. There are no ratings in a black man assaulting a non-white person, unless its Fox News, OANN, or Newsmax. There aren't even ratings in a black man assaulting a white person, only with those networks. When the shoe is on the other foot, the ratings are there obviously. What I think gets lost in the shuffle here is that the media will show the stories they believe people want to see based on the viewing data that drives their ratings. There are whole algorithms and data forecasts that drive these decisions at an executive. It's purely about the ratings, which means its purely about money.

This is why I cringe even when they give so much coverage to the deaths of black men at the hands of cops or just white people in general. It's not genuine. It's simply them following their data models in order to accumulate as much ratings, and thus revenue, as possible. It's why there is so much coverage on mass shootings. The exact same models are being used because they know people will watch that coverage and drive revenue to them.

Want to see who actually cares about this stuff? You need to dig deeper than just the verifieds on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. The interest is there.  

Want to see equal media weight given to both of these scenarios? Make media less of a revenue generating operation and return them to their original state of just reporting the news. Champion media outlets that are all about just reporting factual news without the whataboutisms.

I'm surprised I did not think of that and something so simple as even if it would have turned out to be big news it would have represented a clear bias in my attempt to make a rather simple point.

When you inevitably do go to Europe, say in Italia where your team resides, I would personally give my opinion that you likely will not face any racism as long I have maintained as such cases are majority in hooliganism or ultras, who are the most dominant with the stadia, but total outcasts outside and one of them for that reason. Most Hooligans as a whole generally are outcasted and seen as the lower denizens of society.

[Arquitecto]

I think what gets lost in the "America is a nation of immigrants" narrative is that it was those same immigrants that came here from the old country (Europe) with the learned culture of their ancestors. Baked into that culture was the inherent bigotry visited upon people not from Europe, who were considered savage and barbaric. We call that racism these days.

It's why it blows my mind when Europe is portrayed as less racist than America. Where do people think Americans learned their racism from in the first place? . Racism is learned. It is not genetic. And in America, it has been passed down generation to generation.

I plan on visiting Europe someday and while I'm tempted to stay in the less homogenous countries like the UK, France, Germany, etc....there are so many historical sites I want to see in more homogenous countries in Eastern Europe like Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, etc. Black people aren't particularly numerous in these countries so the prospect of getting stares is not something I've made my peace with yet.

I've been looking for black travelers on social media to follow so I can learn more about their experiencing traveling abroad.

While it happens everywhere, among developed countries the US is an outlier. EU is much less dangerous for basically every violent crime than the US by a good margin.

The attitudes are very different. There are examples like the one Thimmy posted but that is usually a shock, as opposed to the routine nature of these things in the US.

Without a doubt. Anecdotally speaking US feels far more violent along with my incidents there compared to a more docile Europe. There is no comparison. Violence is basically part and parcel in most places within the country.

[Myesyats]

So someone just drove a car into police officers and then pulled out a knife outside the capitol... just another day.

[McLewis]

I saw the video and honestly I'm not surprised it's not getting much play.

Media is a ratings game. There are no ratings in a black man assaulting a non-white person, unless its Fox News, OANN, or Newsmax. There aren't even ratings in a black man assaulting a white person, only with those networks. When the shoe is on the other foot, the ratings are there obviously. What I think gets lost in the shuffle here is that the media will show the stories they believe people want to see based on the viewing data that drives their ratings. There are whole algorithms and data forecasts that drive these decisions at an executive. It's purely about the ratings, which means its purely about money.

This is why I cringe even when they give so much coverage to the deaths of black men at the hands of cops or just white people in general. It's not genuine. It's simply them following their data models in order to accumulate as much ratings, and thus revenue, as possible. It's why there is so much coverage on mass shootings. The exact same models are being used because they know people will watch that coverage and drive revenue to them.

Want to see who actually cares about this stuff? You need to dig deeper than just the verifieds on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. The interest is there.  

Want to see equal media weight given to both of these scenarios? Make media less of a revenue generating operation and return them to their original state of just reporting the news. Champion media outlets that are all about just reporting factual news without the whataboutisms.

I'm surprised I did not think of that and something so simple as even if it would have turned out to be big news it would have represented a clear bias in my attempt to make a rather simple point.

When you inevitably do go to Europe, say in Italia where your team resides, I would personally give my opinion that you likely will not face any racism as long I have maintained as such cases are majority in hooliganism or ultras, who are the most dominant with the stadia, but total outcasts outside and one of them for that reason. Most Hooligans as a whole generally are outcasted and seen as the lower denizens of society.

Yeah despite the racism problem in Serie A (and La Liga to a lesser extent) I'm not particularly worried about travelling in Italy or Spain. As someone mentioned above, these are countries that are used to receiving black tourists so unless I'm journeying into super small, isolated towns that don't get a lot of black visitors, I doubt something racist will happen. Greece is another country I want to visit, but that one's a bit more dodgy. A black guy got beat to death there a few years back by a mob of white guys. I think we discussed in this thread or a previous thread at some point. That gave me pause about putting it on my to-go list, but there's a lot that I want to see in that country. Guess I'll just have to avoid taking pictures with random waitresses at bars in front of a bunch of goons.

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