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Post by McLewis March 8th 2021, 20:19

@CBarca wrote:I think those are fair points McLewis although I disagree with them. I don't have anything to add I haven't said a million times. I find politics fun to discuss and debate but US politics are corrupted by rotten institutions that have killed the balance of power between the two parties.

In an ideal world, Manchin is part of a center-right party in a multi-party system and the parties on the left form a government, and I slander and make fun of Manchin as much as I want.

The reality is that Manchin is an extremely useful tool for the Democratic party to use. A get out of jail free card for being too weak and too incompetent to get an actual working majority. He's the devil you make a deal with. He'll rip out your throat because he's the devil, but he'll deliver on the big ticket Dem items. And Manchin usually delivers on the big ticket items.

And I'm getting hypothetical here, but if Schumer wasn't so goddamned inept at his job, I really wonder whether Manchin stands in the way of $15/hour if he is the only vote in the way. When it comes to 8 senators publicly rejecting $15, it's certain Manchin was just a front for a larger inability to whip the necessary votes.

Anyway, I don't like Manchin. I should make that clear. I respect his ability to win in WV though and I cut him some slack on that -- man is an increasingly rare thing to see in US politics right now. It's miraculous, in fact. With that being said, I don't like him and if he were truly liberal, he would go for filibuster reform + DC/PR statehood so that the entire parties wants and desires don't rest on someone who has to win in fcking West Virginia.

Dems brought this on themselves. BTW, no $15 is really disappointing, but $2 trillion is huge. I don't think this is all doom and gloom.

EDIT: For the record, we do agree that Dems should be going all out these next two years. I fundamentally think we agree politically and policy wise. I agree even if that potentially costs Manchin a seat. However, he does so while gaining DC/PR -- that's my ideal plan. Manchin should be sacrificed to help balance the senate a little more for at least the short term future.

I don't think Dems can do it though. Specifically, Chuck Schumer is a bitch. And once we get to this point, we're back at square one: my opinion that the problems in the Democratic party run much deeper than Manchin, and I don't personally level the majority of my criticism at him.

I guess I'm just not as enamored with Manchin as everyone else. He's a corporate sellout, just like all other Centrists. More beholden to the corporations and special interest groups that pull his strings than the people that vote for him. I find nothing about him to be impressive.

The best play imo for the Dems is to pass as much of their agenda as they possibly can (without the GOP if needed) and then run for re-election on the positive effects of those policies given that the GOP will certainly run on the negative effects. Ignoring the GOP naysayers is super important. They're on the sidelines. Let them stay there. Fuck all this unity shit.

Of course, Schumer is too spineless to do that though. Just like Reid before him. And that's why the GOP will bide their time, keep their messaging simple, and take back Congress in 2022.


@Myesyats wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/joe_manchin/412391

Yeah I agree with that, looking at this chart he's actually to the right of Murkowski and Collins and yet he voted for and them against. Obviously his vote is every bit as crucial as that of the GA senators, especially when the GOP insists on voting on party lines rather than make a true attempt at unity.

I remember times when parties could truly work in a bipartisan fashion and not just vote along party lines every single time. Now it's us vs them totally against the welfare of the people.

Republicans killed this in the 90s. You can thank the likes of Newt Gingrich for it. He made politics the slimy mess it is today. You could even argue the beginning of the end of true bipartisanship began under Reagan.

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/03/07/joe-manchin-filibuster-senate-474197

If Manchin makes this happen I'll take my mean words about him back
I want to to know what "painful" means in this context. If it's the original method for filibustering, standing for hours on end to physically prevent a vote, then yeah that alone would be a deterrant.

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Post by RealGunner March 13th 2021, 14:31

Just reading about Andrew Cuomo. Dems spent years calling out Trump on similar behaviour but Dems are now silent when it's one of their own lol

What a shit party.
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Post by elitedam March 13th 2021, 22:06

@RealGunner wrote:Just reading about Andrew Cuomo. Dems spent years calling out Trump on similar behaviour but Dems are now silent when it's one of their own lol

What a shit party.


I hate to be the one defending the Democratic party, because oftentimes they are a shit party, but this is complete bullshit.

https://www.vox.com/2021/3/13/22328860/andrew-cuomo-resign-democrats

It's funny how he's trying out the "they're trying to cancel me" defense. I don't think it's gonna work for the douchebag.
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Post by CBarca March 14th 2021, 00:15

Yeah I can't see how RG got to that conclusion, that's a bit shocking. Dems couldn't try any more to kick Cuomo out of the party right now lol
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Post by Myesyats March 14th 2021, 00:23

Double standards lol, Trump did much worse and he will be allowed to run again. For republicans it's a welcome additional quality if the candidate is a sex offender


As for Cuomo, is there evidence? It's way too easy to ruin someone's life currently. I hate false allegations. Cuomo should sue back
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Post by BarrileteCosmico March 14th 2021, 02:18

Biden has done worse and it has been swapped under the rug

But Cuomo deserves what's happening to him as well.
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Post by McLewis March 14th 2021, 04:59

@Myesyats wrote:


As for Cuomo, is there evidence? It's way too easy to ruin someone's life currently. I hate false allegations. Cuomo should sue back


The New York AG has opened an investigation to determine just that. So far, all we know is who is accusing him of sexual harassment. There's enough gray area there for him to wiggle free of it.

What I think is more politically perilous for him is the accusations around his administration cooking the numbers around covid rates in nursing homes earlier in the pandemic. That is a significant allegation and if prove he knew of it, that's a definite career ender.
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Post by elitedam March 27th 2021, 23:34

Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

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Post by Hapless_Hans March 27th 2021, 23:46

@elitedam wrote:Laughing  Laughing  Laughing



lmmaaaaaooooooooooooooooooooo
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Post by Myesyats April 6th 2021, 16:27

Most punchable face ever? This guy is such trash. Fantastic news to wake up to

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Post by BarrileteCosmico April 6th 2021, 21:28

Something about his face looks very inbred

Also @elitedam loool
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Post by Myesyats May 12th 2021, 16:03

BREAKING: House Republicans oust Rep. Liz Cheney from her leadership post after feud with Donald Trump


rofl

Imagine restructuring your entire party to please Don the Con, the man whose lunatic reign ended up in GOP losing both houses of parliament and the presidency Laughing Also a man who never won the popular vote lol
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Post by McLewis May 13th 2021, 16:44

I think the best way I've been able to comprehend removing her is through the lense of: She's a member of GOP Leadership actively working against GOP Leadership and so she must be removed so that GOP Leadership are all on the same page.

What's hilarious is that the "same page" is this huge lie that our elections were rigged and that Trump was cheated out of a 2nd term.

So essentially, Cheney was ousted for telling the truth, which was that our elections were perfectly secure and no wide-scale fraud was found. Ironically, what little fraud that was actually found would've benefitted Trump rather than Biden. Just like in 2016 when he made this claim, despite winning.

The levels of cognitive dissonance required to be this tone deaf and oblivious to how stupid they all look...... are incalculable.
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Post by Myesyats May 14th 2021, 01:28

Surely it can't work in the long run. It will take time but they will break with Trump as they did with Nixon. There is no long term benefit in being associated with Trump Laughing

It's very surprising to me, I thought they'd try to distance themselves very quickly and even vote to impeach but they've been riding this wave longer than expected.
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Post by CBarca May 14th 2021, 03:43

I'm not so sure. The Republicans are pretty determined on achieving autocracy/authoritarianism as far as I can see. I think it's naïve to believe that they won't just stick with Trump no matter what.

Quite frankly, the ones who don't get slammed by a sizeable portion of the GOP base and get primaried for it.

A good question is to be had about whether Trumpism can actually garner a winning coalition. My guess was that the GOP would move away from Trump after he was ousted because...uhh, he literally lost despite being an incumbent lol, including an embarrassing loss in Georgia where his brand of GOP may have actually cost the GOP the senate, not just the presidency.

Political parties seek power. The GOP is doubling down on Trumpism. I'm not sure they can win with it, but they're clearly trying to do so via voter suppression. I do think that they'll abandon him if it doesn't prove to be a winning strategy, but there will be reason to think that it *could* be, or that it's just the implementation of Trumpism that's wrong (the guy mobilized an extremely large GOP base, including pretty disaffected voters)
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Post by Myesyats May 14th 2021, 12:24

The thing is Trump is old, doesnt have his #1 weapon anymore: Twitter, lost spectacularly to another senior citizen and thus his "I always win" rhetoric isnt as powerful anymore. I don't see how it could be a winning strategy to bet on a dying horse.

Who is going to be GOPs candidate in 2024? Ted cruz? Nobody will vote for that slimy hog.

Any candidate who will try to play off of Trump will fail miserably because Trump is unique in his madness. Any effort to emulate him will just be cringeworthy.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico May 14th 2021, 20:32

Ivanka, clearly
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Post by Myesyats May 15th 2021, 00:31

I hope it's Jared Kushner. Kushner2024 would definitely be my choice.
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Post by McLewis May 28th 2021, 20:29



Centrist Democrats showing their "wisdom" again, I'm guessing folks?

To me it looks like Centrist Dems just let complicit members of the GOP in Congress get away scot free of any involvement in that attempted coup 5 months ago and the kill a mechanism that may have led to them being held accountable.
These are the people we revere in America for their ability to "see both sides".

Fuck those people and fuck those that defend and support them.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico May 28th 2021, 21:17

Yeah wtf is Biden doing. I'm pretty centrist but it's been clear for a long time that there is no negotiating with McConnell, Biden should stop catering to the center and get shit done .
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Post by Myesyats May 29th 2021, 00:12

I cant believe the attempted coup was already 5 months ago wtf. Feels like 2 months

Already got used to this shit....Nothing ever gets done in politics
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Post by McLewis May 29th 2021, 00:24

Many on the left called this a long time. We were called reactionary and obstinate. We were told that both sides have to work together to get anything done and that the GOP wanted to do this because they wanted "unity". The GOP and Centrist Dems have done a fine job of proving that to all be bullshit.

The Centrist brand of governing just doesn't work anymore. Not when 1 side consistently sabotages the other, who are too weak-willed and paralyzed to do anything about it.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico May 29th 2021, 03:13

The underlying problem is that there is division amongst dems to on how to pay for the infrastructure bill and large it should be. You have the new york legislators saying they won't vote for anything without SALT (a highly regressive subsidy), everyone has their own pet project , so without unified dem support Biden tried to get some Republicans on board for leverage . But that was doomed to fail and he should have known that. He has a majority and should use it .
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Post by CBarca May 29th 2021, 05:41

Nothing wrong with being a centrist Dem. A centrist Dem won the white house (and successfully has pivoted pretty left). The blame for all of this is all on the GOP. Fuck them. Bernie gets us 4 more years of Trump. I'm not even a centrist Dem, but I don't understand why the reaction from the left to the headline "Dems fail to get enough votes for X" is "fuck you you stupid fucking democrats". The answer is to put more democrats in Congress. Unless leftists want to form a progressive party or something and destroy the union. It's just not a productive conversation at all.

I don't disagree that the obvious fix is to kill the filibuster and that Dems getting in the way of that are an issue, though. Kill filibuster and add DC/PR statehood. Need to get some sort of universal college or community college subsidy in there too -- education is huge for Dems. Won't pay dividends right away but could long term. Need to expand Dem electorate to get more Dems elected.

Anyway, it's all institutional. Institutional problems need institutional solutions. I agree the filibuster needs to be killed. I think it's fair to call out those Democrats who won't kill the filibuster, but I just always have an adverse reaction to "fuck the Dems" when there is no real alternative.

Like, I don't like the Democratic party either, but there isn't really any choice but to forge forward. We have to try and make the Democratic party as strong as possible, not infight.
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Post by CBarca May 29th 2021, 05:50

And, as always, the answer more than anything here is that Schumer is a fucking weak ass politician and McConnell makes Schumer suck his dick every morning

I hate McConnell but he has absolutely managed the GOP 1000x better than Schumer's weak ass. A strong leader could have brought down the filibuster by now and seen the writing on the wall
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Post by elitedam May 29th 2021, 06:40

I'm hoping all of this is just political theater to get rid of the filibuster.
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