2020 US presidential election

Hapless_Hans wrote:Don't think the American Jewish community is as monolithically "pro-Israel" (meaning pro-Netanyahu) as it's always purported to be in such faux-polit-strategical deliberations

I can't speak to whether you are right or not. Would need evidence to say. You might not be wrong. With that being said, I would argue that enough are of that ilk to make it politically savvy for politicians to support Israel.

There are obviously also other reasons, international politics wise, but I don't know enough about those to comment

CBarca wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Don't think the American Jewish community is as monolithically "pro-Israel" (meaning pro-Netanyahu) as it's always purported to be in such faux-polit-strategical deliberations

I can't speak to whether you are right or not. Would need evidence to say. You might not be wrong. With that being said, I would argue that enough are of that ilk to make it politically savvy for politicians to support Israel.

There are obviously also other reasons, international politics wise, but I don't know enough about those to comment

Obviously, I wouldn't know more about it than you either. But I have some basic observations, just for discussion.

In terms of political affiliation what's clear is that Jewish Americans are strongly Democratic leaning, and I would argue that quite obviously the main reason for that isn't the Democrats "pro-israel" stance, as if that was it, more would be voting Republican who are much more staunchly, or expressively so.
The main reason is that they prefer liberal policies. Israeli politics haven't been anything resembling liberal for a long time now, and I can't imagine liberal Jewish Americans haven't taken note of that.
Not to mention that Jewish Americans are, well, Americans, and not Israelis.

I think that the mantra-esque "stand-by Israel" line that is found in all Democratic establishment platforms has less to do with the desire to meet an actual policy demand from voters, than some kind of congealed element of a default campaign playbook: a mix of soothing the premised concerns of  Jewish voters, however urgent these concerns actually may be, and of not wanting to get blowback from an active political lobby, one that is alleging to be acting in the interest of some solidaric Israeli-Jewish coalition but is actually entangled with business and military industrialist interests from both the US and Israel that might have very little to do with anything like Jewishness. In terms of ideology maybe even more to do with Christian fundamentalism, really.

About how much Jewish actual voters have these concerns, and identify with this coalition, I have strong doubts.

It's similar to the second amendment discussion we had.
When trying to change the default playbook of not "violating the second amendment" which effectively requires all mainstream candidates to not push for any meaningful change in weapons policy, I don't think the famous 'ordinary, decent, salt of the earth Americans' who like to have a gun for protection or hunting, or what have you, would actually push back, or even care, about common sense gun laws. Polls suggest they would favour them. The push back comes from extremists and a determined lobby backed by an industry who have become proficient at invoking the will of the people, and some quasi-fictional artefact which is constructed from a sentence of the constitution, as instruments of their activism, while that instrumentalization is made highly functionable by a media environment that has no boundaries between news and PR and which makes voters 'targetable'.

I feel the same maybe true for the 'ordinary Jewish voters'. The figure of what the voter "wants" is a basic rhethoric topos of pushing and maintaining an agenda.

Klobuchar really got picked as VP

White power

Freeza wrote:Klobuchar really got picked as VP

White power

Would be an absolutely dumb pick in every regard. Warren is the correct choice to get elected. Is Klobuchar gonna sway any voters?

Warren can get the young, white people to vote Biden. More so than any other realistic pick.

Lets goooooo

Consolidate that rust belt vote

The idea that

1) liberals who don't like Biden will vote for him anyway

and

2) liberals who really hate biden aren't going to be swayed by Elizabeth Warren, will sit out regardless

I think those are two pretty reasonable assumptions, and it's why I think Warren isn't the ideal pick.

The way forward for Trump, especially post pandemic, is going to have to be a repeat of an electoral college/popular vote split. Essentially, he's going to try and repeat 2016. That means Trump has to win just enough voters in specific states (Michigan, WI, Pennsylvania...could maybe throw in Ohio/Florida) to win the entire thing. We know this. So the Biden campaign is going to have to be very careful about who they choose. They want to maximize the amount of new voters brought in by a VP in Michigan, WI, and Pennsylvania.

I think in that sense, bringing in a black woman doesn't change the narrative. It might help him in North Carolina/Florida, but by how much is an open question (Biden already has a good amount of appeal to Black Americans, as seen by his dominating performance with them in the 2020 primary).

This potential choice wouldn't be popular with twitter users, progressives who live in cities, city folk, or people who already live in blue dominated states. But Biden doesn't need any of those. Warren, perhaps even Kamala or Abrams probably help with those populations.

But Klobuchar is a play to double down on the most important states. If Biden repeats 2016, but flips WI, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, he wins the election. Double down on those, and see what can be done in Arizona, Florida, and North Carolina.

Smart choice, I think, even if it's uninspiring. As I've said before, people here like Amy. She's popular. In MN she's popular in cities and she's also popular in rural areas. She's got real Midwestern charm and real Midwestern appeal

On a side note, I'm just going to love seeing Twitter spiral into a meltdown over this, so I'm biased

I'm not so sure she's the definite pick yet.

I think we need to wait this out and see where it goes.

McLewis wrote:I'm not so sure she's the definite pick yet.

I think we need to wait this out and see where it goes.

Nah. I’ll be the vocal asshole.

It works. If anything is to be learned from SnyderCut movement is that it gets shit done

It’s better than Buttigieg at least

Biden snubbing Kamala, pour one out for our fallen #KHive soldiers on twitter.

Eh? Where's the reports on this?

Didn't think Biden would choose so soon. Thought the vetting process was just about getting started now?

Hapless_Hans wrote:Eh? Where's the reports on this?

Didn't think Biden would choose so soon. Thought the vetting process was just about getting started now?

I kind of was asking you since you claimed she was the pick?

Hapless_Hans wrote:I kind of was asking you since you claimed she was the pick?

They’re all being vetted. But only Klobuchar has been named in headlines and confirmed as a possibility.

Probably because the campaign wants to gauge public opinion. It’s important to complain about her.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/biden-running-mate-klobuchar-vetting/#click=https://t.co/QQBbdBpig5

So she didn't get picked yet

Hapless_Hans wrote:So she didn't get picked yet

Well she is the pick, but not confirmed or vetted yet. I wrote in my second post “she would be” the tense makes it clear I didn’t say it was official.

Hope to god she isn’t confirmed.

McLewis wrote:I'm not so sure she's the definite pick yet.

I think we need to wait this out and see where it goes.

Yeah don't want to jump the gun, but it's worth talking about

Freeza wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:So she didn't get picked yet

Well she is the pick, but not confirmed or vetted yet. I wrote in my second post “she would be” the tense makes it clear I didn’t say it was official.

Hope to god she isn’t confirmed.

But what are you basing the assumption on that she "is the pick", and not one of a few being vetted? On the fact that it's reported, or being 'leaked', that she's being vetted?

I'm not too sure.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Freeza wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:So she didn't get picked yet

Well she is the pick, but not confirmed or vetted yet. I wrote in my second post “she would be” the tense makes it clear I didn’t say it was official.

Hope to god she isn’t confirmed.

But what are you basing the assumption on that she "is the pick", and not one of a few being vetted? On the fact that it's reported, or being 'leaked', that she's being vetted?

I'm not too sure.

She’s the only one being confirmed by the Biden campaign to be vetted. That means something. It’s part of the vetting process. Seeing the public opinion.

Yeah, true. Like a test balloon, if the reaction is too negative, they can still present someone else.

I mean, I think she's a capable politician, and as I said she's got that no-nonsense, real-america, problem-solver, stern but heartful Marge Gunderson aura and look, which is appealing and reassuring no doubt.

But boy, do they signal taking the minority vote for granted, and that they don't give a rat's ass about the left wing, which got almost as many delegates as Biden, after all.

Hasn't Biden himself enough rust belt credibility, what with him being from a historical Pennsylvanian steel town and taking the fucking Amtrak train to Washington?

This fucking idiot is wild:

https://twitter.com/americarising/status/1263803921136603136?s=21

lmaooooooooooo what an idiot

I mean the point he's made about between him or Trump isn't a bad one, but the comment after that is absolutely horrific

Had a chuckle at the "oh I'm in trouble" comment though. Hilarious.

Joe really gonna be Trump 2.0 in terms of the gaffes and constant spewing of shit, but more enjoyable since it won't consistently be racist, sexist, white power embracing propaganda. It will only occasionally be racist, or sexist, or white power embracing propaganda.

2024 can't come soon enough

expect nothing less from a 80year old white uncle.

its mildly racist, more funny than racist imo

Honest question:

You think this will lead him to go for a black VP now? The comment has rightfully blown and it could be a way to appease the voters and show it wasn’t in ill-meaning.
Picking a white woman could seriously alienate black voters when he’s so openly racist.

It’s a lot like his poor people can be just as talented as white people comment.

Freeza wrote:Honest question:

You think this will lead him to go for a black VP now? The comment has rightfully blown and it could be a way to appease the voters and show it wasn’t in ill-meaning.
Picking a white woman could seriously alienate black voters when he’s so openly racist.

It’s a lot like his poor people can be just as talented as white people comment.  

I think any significant fallout from this comment will probably move the needle further towards a black VP candidate. I personally don't see that level of fallout coming though. This is a pretty typical Biden gaffe honestly. Been saying dumbshit like this for years. It shows not only his age, but his status as a political and cultural relic.

He's probably got a strong rebuke from prominent black leaders coming, but given there are no real alternatives to Trump right now, they're going to give him a pass on this probably. It sucks and it shows how broken our political system is that we even have a candidate like this, but it's the reality of where we are right now. Black voters are very pragmatic. Flipping to Trump or staying home just because Biden said something casually racist is not an option for us.

I mean, I think that the response to this will underline why what the first part of what Biden was implying is correct -- there really is no choice between him and Trump if you're interested in making things "better" for the Black community. People are going to let this go because, terrible as it is, it doesn't change the fact that he would be better for the Black community than Trump.

Obviously to put that thought together with gatekeeping who is Black and who isn't is...as I said earlier, horrific.