Who will be the Democrats' presidential candidate against Trump?

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:48 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I'm just really angry that the best the Dems can do is Biden or Bernie...  even the last election; only reason Trump got elected is that HC was the most disliked person in America.

Complete tone-deafness.  Nobody wants Trump other than his avid supporters.  They're like 25-35% of America.  Just give people a semi-viable alternative and you win.

This is really all on the complete incompetence of the democratic party.

The good news is that the real talent showed itself in this pandemic:  Cuomo, Gavin Newsom, and Phil Murphy.  So there's great hope for the next cycle.  But when you think about it, it's not the dem party that emphasized these guys... it was circumstance.  The democratic party establishment is absolutely awful at highlighting their best people.


Again, though, the "establishment" only backed Biden when Biden won South Carolina and Bernie looked like he was going to take it all. Had Buttigieg won it instead, they would've backed him instead. I think people here are giving the DNC too much credit. They only backed a winner once it was effectively a 2 horse race.

@sportsczy wrote:
@Freeza wrote:Warren was the choice the establishment should’ve gone with.

Beto also had so much momentum going into it but he basically gave up all his personality and turned into a robot until he was virtually out of the running.

Everyone just entered the race and it hurt everyone’s chances. So many candidates ensures no one would question Biden through the campaign at all because there were too many dumb alternatives.
Bloomberg was a perfect decoy.

She's just another version of Bernie. Don't even remember who Beto was.

You want people who have a history of success at scale. Not idealogues.

You're never going to win an election in the US with idealogues. It's impossible. This is a capitalistic society. Appealing to 10-12% of the population is never going to win you a presidential election.


Warren was much more in line with the party elite than Bernie though, I wouldn't say she's an ideologue as she was able get things through congress. Although I think as a professorial (ie elite), coastal, old and female candidate it would've played similarly to Hillary in the battleground states.

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Post by Blue Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:33 pm

Well by definition progressives(left wing) have to be niche if they were mainstream then they would have to be the center again by definition. The political spectrum is ultimately decided by the majority of the group, regardless where they line up on the ideologue spectrum. Bernie Sanders ideas were popular, the data and polling suggest that. He probably should have ran more of a mainstream candidate, because he sucked as anti establishment candidate.

The biggest divide between Bernie and Biden was age, how one viewed themselves as liberal, moderate, or conservative was not conclusive.

Bernie won the voters under 50, while Biden was the favorite among older voters. That was basically the biggest divide, and older voters are the majority of the block voters in our election.

I am actually very interested to see the trend too, wonder if it is naivety as sports suggest.

I believe the trend will continue to favor Bernie Sanders politics, the 2008 market crash, COVID-19, and other dynamics in the economy. You guys had the capitalism vs socialism debate, it is interesting in America the favorability. of capitalism is declining and socialism is rising. I wonder how many that didn't live through the cold war era will continue to change this trend. I wonder how much of that is a factor, and i wonder how much is corporate media is a factor. Older voters are very dependent of corporate/cable media, while younger voters go through much more diverse media. Wonder the impact of that also.

Basically half of eligible citizens do not vote, i wonder if Sports is right that people change their views as they get older or is it that people become more cynical and stop voting and drop out of the electoral process. For example for myself i am much more likely to become a non voter then to conform to DNC and GOP politics.
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Post by El Gunner Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:00 pm

@CBarca wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:Progressive ideas are very niche in the US.  They are very popular with the liberal U44 crowd (and likely U30 really; but that not how the segments are counted)... but little popularity with any of the other demographic segments.  The numbers haven't changed at all since 2016, meaning that as people have gotten older and moved into the next demographic segment, the ideals haven't carried over.  I think we'll get a better idea in another 4 years.

The bottom line is that the very young, very liberal and (I hate to say it) very naive segment of the US population are the ones this old man speaks to.  As people become more realist, experience life and develop pragmatism...  they realize that it's the ideology and nothing more.  His ideas cannot be implemented in the US.  Not enough people want them.

Keep in mind that he represents a minority of the democrats... who are literally 50% of the votes.  The other half of the US is conservative.  So you when you extrapolate his reach... it's about 10-12% of the US population. In a presidential race, that's probably 45% because dems will vote for anyone other than Trump... except for Bernie supporters who cant' stand Biden (like Blue).

A nice minority... but very clearly a minority.


jesus christ, i think i just need to read your comments on sports (pun intended).

RG is there a way i can mute someone in particular sections of the forum.

Trump is gunna win again and people like you deserve it, thankfully


I've disagreed with Sports on a lot of things within the last couple of weeks, but I can't think of anything he said here that I disagree with. I guess maybe he's a bit harsh about "idealism" and people growing out of them, but I don't think he's that far off base.

What do you disagree with?


his entire mindset. It's the one that remains in a stationed loop of critical inaction and will never encourage to bring about change.

it's like he knows the truth and the right way (because i've seen him make very smart comments and deductions on the system) but then he short circuits his views with redundant criticism.
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Post by El Gunner Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:11 pm

@Blue wrote:
Basically half of eligible citizens do not vote, i wonder if Sports is right that people change their views as they get older or is it that people become more cynical and stop voting and drop out of the electoral process. For example for myself i am much more likely to become a non voter then to conform to DNC and GOP politics.


it's definitely your summation mate. People become more drained and technically "dumber" as they become older, it's the way the system works,
Tupac said it best - when you reach 30 they have already taken your heart and soul away.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:11 pm

@cbarca... btw, i may be using "idealism" incorrectly. What I mean is a concept or idea without any feasible plan of making it become law. Likely, the you will need to compromise some on the idea to make it more mainstream. But there is a way.

For example, universal education... excellent idea. It should happen. But how? Do you subsidize the state university systems (like University of California) so that people who make less than a certain amount can go for free? To increase capacity meet demand (if such extra demand materializes), do you subsidize private university attendance? Do you tax the private universities (which is how it should go) to finance this OR, in lieu of tax, you require them to dedicate a certain number of their student body for this program (like they do with low income housing in real estate)?

Increasing the tax pool by 2 trillion and saying that you'll tax the rich to get get there is no a plan.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:14 pm

I'm a capitalist through and through El Gunner... but i do believe some aspects of society such as education and healthcare need to be socialized in the US. That's who I am.

I am absolutely not looking for a systematic revolution. I certainly do not adhere to socialism or communism at all and I never will. A mild form of social democracy... yes.
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Post by El Gunner Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:25 pm

i can respect that you are upfront about that

good luck with your soulless life brother, let's hope you get a chance to reincarnate and become more awakened in future life states
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Post by Young Kaz Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:59 pm

@El Gunner wrote:
@Blue wrote:
Basically half of eligible citizens do not vote, i wonder if Sports is right that people change their views as they get older or is it that people become more cynical and stop voting and drop out of the electoral process. For example for myself i am much more likely to become a non voter then to conform to DNC and GOP politics.


it's definitely your summation mate. People become more drained and technically "dumber" as they become older, it's the way the system works,
Tupac said it best - when you reach 30 they have already taken your heart and soul away.


Spoken like a 23 year old. Your brain isnt even finished forming yet.

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Post by El Gunner Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:47 pm

^^how could you know that though

scientists have somewhat agreed that brain fully forms at age 25, which im not far off, but im more concerned about its peak performance
so many various opinions have been given in the name of science on when our brain is at its peak, some say it's 18-20 years of age, some say in your early 40s

in my case i definitely feel like my brain was at its sharpest when i was 17
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:25 am

just because your brain has peak performance doesn't mean you're not dumb

it might just mean your brain is on peak performance plotting and executing dumb shit

I too was much smarter 20 years ago. But now I know so, so much more.
Unbelievable how little I knew back then, and how smart I felt. I felt like I could do everything.
Now that's an extraordinarily dumb thought in hindsight.
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Post by Myesyats Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:20 am

Theres a reason why the founding fathers put the 35 presidential age limit in place. Because even they knew 20 year olds are dum dums who think they can revolutionize the world, in spite of people living much shorter lives on average Laughing

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Post by El Gunner Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:05 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:just because your brain has peak performance doesn't mean you're not dumb

it might just mean your brain is on peak performance plotting and executing dumb shit

I too was much smarter 20 years ago. But now I know so, so much more.
Unbelievable how little I knew back then, and how smart I felt. I felt like I could do everything.
Now that's an extraordinarily dumb thought in hindsight.


of course you would feel that way, you have your fragile ego to uphold Laughing

but it's all good folks, it is what it is. in the end we have to take care of ourselves and our loved ones, and pray for the best for humanity
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:34 pm

EG where are these string of ad-hominems coming from?

Calling Sports & I soulless due to our belief in capitalism then Hans with a fragile ego due to him if anything being humble about his neural progress?

If anything Hans is wrong he simply is more knowledgable of how little he knows compared to how we are far more sure of our knowledge in our nascent years.

Point being, what are you basing these statements on, exactly?




The brain declining due to age is mostly a myth if you keep yourself physically well and use it often.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:45 pm

@El Gunner wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:just because your brain has peak performance doesn't mean you're not dumb

it might just mean your brain is on peak performance plotting and executing dumb shit

I too was much smarter 20 years ago. But now I know so, so much more.
Unbelievable how little I knew back then, and how smart I felt. I felt like I could do everything.
Now that's an extraordinarily dumb thought in hindsight.


of course you would feel that way, you have your fragile ego to uphold Laughing

but it's all good folks, it is what it is. in the end we have to take care of ourselves and our loved ones, and pray for the best for humanity


If you read my post as being about my ego you misinterpreted it. Nor was it directed at your ego. I can honestly say that reading the posts of you young folks on here tells me you're all very smart and also wiser than I was when I was your age.
If it's the use of "you", sorry for the misunderstanding, I wasn't calling you dumb, it was used as a general pronoun.

But what can I say, aging is weird. One's younger and one's older self seem almost to be irreconcilable, in that it's rather difficult to really switch perspective and empathize with the other position. It's a weird, but essential kind of change.
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Post by El Gunner Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:27 pm

^^nah i got what you meant, no hard feelings directed either way.

Hans wrote:But what can I say, aging is weird. One's younger and one's older self seem almost to be irreconcilable, in that it's rather difficult to really switch perspective and empathize with the other position. It's a weird, but essential kind of change.
definitely haha Very Happy the self is the ego, and this statement flows in the same river as my earlier statement about how your ego wouldn't let you down regardless age

@Arquitecto wrote:EG where are these string of ad-hominems coming from?

Calling Sports & I soulless due to our belief in capitalism then Hans with a fragile ego due to him if anything being humble about his neural progress?

If anything Hans is wrong he simply is more knowledgable of how little he knows compared to how we are far more sure of our knowledge in our nascent years.

Point being, what are you basing these statements on, exactly?




The brain declining due to age is mostly a myth if you keep yourself physically well and use it often.


my statements are based on my own intellect, i can think for myself thank you very much Wink

and don't take the personal jibes too seriously, i mean i do mean them to certain degree when i say them Laughing but in all respects why would you want to take my ego too seriously.

Truth wins in the end in regards to the bigger scheme of things, and i only want to try and wake up my fellows in the meantime Wink
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Post by CBarca Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:12 pm

You need to justify why a belief in collectivism means that you are more aware than us capitalist pigs, though
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Post by El Gunner Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:32 pm

see the very act that you would write a sentence like that especially with the word "justify" shows me you still don't understand what im doing Laughing

it's okay CB, go wage slave once Corona is over
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Post by CBarca Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:17 pm

For someone interested in truth above all else, you don't seem to ground your arguments in the most objective truth we have -- reality.
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Post by Freeza Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:19 pm

Lay off the weed
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Post by El Gunner Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:10 pm

Freeza do you still want those articles i mentioned a while back on Existential Psychoanalysis?

edit: it's actually just a book, the other article while on the same issue is not really necessary, as the book guides you step by step and is more reader friendly

this goes to anyone else as well... I believe we owe it to ourselves to really understand ourselves and what we really are, and through that we will understand others and the world around us better. Just give me a shout if interested.
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:52 pm

Tsk no nowhere near am I personally offended as only in recent weeks I repeat how silly it is to be offended on an online forum.

Not not understand the basis behind your ad-hominem in reaction to such stances.


On that note cannot wait to see how I reflect back on my general thinking 10 years ahead.

If I laugh at it, then that means I have indeed evolved.
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Post by Warrior Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:53 pm

In french we call this process "intellectual masturbation"

Let's just hope you won't turn into a weird, pompous woke guru like the former poster Black Sheep, on the long term
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:55 pm

There is always quirky comfort the ones who preach subjective forms of theory or philosophy to perspective given you cannot reason with it.

Thus it evolves into a "you just don't know yet" kind of trade-off with the goalposts shifting included.
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Post by Arquitecto Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:59 pm

@Warrior wrote:In french we call this process "intellectual masturbation"

Let's just hope you won't turn into a weird, pompous woke guru like the former poster Black Sheep, on the long term


Warrior fra I forget usernames not people of course for many I value here who was Black Sheep again and what did he preach
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Post by Freeza Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:11 pm

@Arquitecto wrote:
@Warrior wrote:In french we call this process "intellectual masturbation"

Let's just hope you won't turn into a weird, pompous woke guru like the former poster Black Sheep, on the long term


Warrior fra I forget usernames not people of course for many I value here who was Black Sheep again and what did he preach


It was Dom.

Started writing a bunch of weird shit after he returned.
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Post by Warrior Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:15 pm

He posted often last year, i think he had another account a long time ago, before i subscribe here myself

Can't remember what he preached, it was mostly focused on self-development, which i believe is a trend followed by wankers, more or less
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