Nationalism in Europe [Controversial]

Myesyats wrote:

Pedram wrote:

Myesyats wrote:@Pedram The real reason is crime rates. You have a warped view of Europe and probably read too much bs on the internet.

The problem is failure of integration policies and largely uncontrolled influx of migrants in recent years. This is obviously not the same as simply a disdain for people of color.

People's neighborhoods are becoming unsafe and they cant go out after dark. This is real people problems and some chronically online b-shit.

What's the solution here though, deporting people who have lived in France for three generations or more?

The National Rally gained power through pure politics of fear, gotta admit the otherization works well with a very large segment of France's population.

I doubt Le Pen will do what she says she will anyway but that's not it. She is not talking about those that live there for generations but about illegal migrants. A vast number of them have entered France and other countries without a background check. She is walking the streets and talking to people saying those who are peaceful are not the problem.

I don't know what the policy should be specifically but definitely more strict than it is now. Stricter vetting process, more comprehensive background checks, and deportation of those who commit crime and organize themselves into gangs.

deportation sounds like the most obvious, so why don't they just do that instead of crying

Pedram wrote:

futbol wrote:

El Gunner wrote:jesus christ just say you hate them and you're racist af

Dude, you can do better than that in a debate. You don't honestly believe, after over 10 years that we've posted here together, that I'm hating on people based on their "race". So why resort to such cheap rhetoric?

I wish Germany would attract all the doctors, engineers, nurses and scienticsts from Japan, South Africa, Iran, Turkey or wherever. Instead we are getting this, because "hurr durr u say bad thing about my imaginary God":

Why can't you just respect what other people believe in instead of insulting and belittling them?

I'm an agnostic myself, i think Islam or any other organized religion is made for retards who can't think for themselves. still i don't believe in shouting in their faces that their god is false, why? because it doesn't work. these people have been indoctrinated from the day they were born, you're not gonna convince them to drop their faith.

You have no right to not be offended. That's why Europe is what it is today. I can say: "Fuck your imaginariy God", and you got to deal with it, not pull out a knife. Modern Europe is based on age of enlightenment, secularism and freedom of speech. If you can't deal with it, stay back in your country and knock your head on the ground 5 times a day among your fellows. Why enter the country of "kufrs"?

By the way, the 60 knife crimes every day in Germany don't happen because European people start arguments against Islam. There couldn't be more self-loathing, soft, woke people than modern Germans.

futbol wrote:

Pedram wrote:

futbol wrote:


Dude, you can do better than that in a debate. You don't honestly believe, after over 10 years that we've posted here together, that I'm hating on people based on their "race". So why resort to such cheap rhetoric?

I wish Germany would attract all the doctors, engineers, nurses and scienticsts from Japan, South Africa, Iran, Turkey or wherever. Instead we are getting this, because "hurr durr u say bad thing about my imaginary God":

Why can't you just respect what other people believe in instead of insulting and belittling them?

I'm an agnostic myself, i think Islam or any other organized religion is made for retards who can't think for themselves. still i don't believe in shouting in their faces that their god is false, why? because it doesn't work. these people have been indoctrinated from the day they were born, you're not gonna convince them to drop their faith.

You have no right to not be offended. That's why Europe is what it is today. I can say: "Fuck your imaginariy God", and you got to deal with it, not pull out a knife. Modern Europe is based on age of enlightenment, secularism and freedom of speech. If you can't deal with it, stay back in your country and knock your head on the ground 5 times a day among your fellows. Why enter the country of "kufrs"?

By the way, the 60 knife crimes every day in Germany don't happen because European people start arguments against Islam. There couldn't be more self-loathing, soft, woke people than modern Germans.

Fine if that's what you want, stoke racial and religious tensions in your society by attacking and insulting people of different faiths and ethnicities, let's see how is that gonna work for you.

We all reap what we sow, the people who are the biggest defenders of freedom of speech are the biggest hypocrites when the freedom of speech is on a different subject, like protesting Israel's genocide, then they become illiberal as fuck because it's not in their interest.

El Gunner wrote:btw @futbol what would Darwin say about how Europe and the White race is currently dying out?

Compared to 1950 Europe has almost doubled its population, it's far from dying out. With a certain standard of living, women in workplaces and the invention of the pill, people don't make 5 children anymore, in the hope that at least one of them will save the entire family in the future. That's a universal principle, even China has gone from 2,7 kids per woman in the 80s to 1.07 currently.

It's completely fine if Germany went back to 65 million from the 50s instead of the current 84 million (or 80 million without the "non-whites").

At some point it would even out anyway. If the population shrinks, housing gets cheaper because there is so much space, jobs pay better because there is no one else to do it, people will start to make children again. However, if a 3 bedroom appartment in the city starts at 1,500 € rent while you earn 2,000 €, you can't even afford the housing to accommodate for 2 children each with their own rooms.

Flooding Europe with unqualified Middle Easterners who make lots of children and live off of the welfare state is certainly not the solution though. Most of Europe has understood this at this point that's why right wing parties are being elected. Though it is too late anyway. As I said, you can't fix it suddenly after 10 years of wrong politics.

Pedram wrote:

Fine if that's what you want, help rise racial and religious tensions in your society by attacking and insulting people of different faiths and ethnicities, let's see how is that gonna work for you.

We all reap what we sow, the people who are the biggest defenders of freedom of speech are the biggest hypocrites when the freedom of speech is on a different subject, like protesting Israel's genocide, then they become illiberal as fuck because it's not in their interest.

Don't give me this "AGe OF eNLIGhtENMEnT" BS, just say you hate Muslims.

You are deaf. Germany's biggest Muslim population came to Germany decades ago: Turkish people. They didn't run around stabbing, group raping, driving trucks into Christmas markets, attacking firefighters during New Year's Eve, starting clan criminality. And I can assure you they came during and lived through times that were nowhere near as tolerant as today's western world.

You better don't give me this "wE ArE UNfAirLY TReaTed So wE aRE juST defENDing OUresELVes" BS.

There is obviously a discrepancy between European (and European influeced as post Atatürk Türkiye) culture and Arabic culture who value their religion and "family honour" more than education, science and freedom of speech and are willing to defend their ideals by the power of the knife. That's fine by me, they can do what they want. I'm not a supporter of "spreading democracy around the world" sheriff policy. Someone belittled Allah? Go and stone them to death, I don't care. Just live those values in your own country, don't try to turn Paris into Calcutta.

futbol wrote:

El Gunner wrote:btw @futbol what would Darwin say about how Europe and the White race is currently dying out?

Compared to 1950 Europe has almost doubled its population, it's far from dying out. With a certain standard of living, women in workplaces and the invention of the pill, people don't make 5 children anymore, in the hope that at least one of them will save the entire family in the future. That's a universal principle, even China has gone from 2,7 kids per woman in the 80s to 1.07 currently.

It's completely fine if Germany went back to 65 million from the 50s instead of the current 84 million (or 80 million without the "non-whites").

At some point it would even out anyway. If the population shrinks, housing gets cheaper because there is so much space, jobs pay better because there is no one else to do it, people will start to make children again. However, if a 3 bedroom appartment in the city starts at 1,500 € rent while you earn 2,000 €, you can't even afford the housing to accommodate for 2 children each with their own rooms.

Flooding Europe with unqualified Middle Easterners who make lots of children and live off of the welfare state is certainly not the solution though. Most of Europe has understood this at this point that's why right wing parties are being elected. Though it is too late anyway. As I said, you can't fix it suddenly after 10 years of wrong politics.

so you were overreacting when you said Germany is no more on the previous page?

also i read something before that European birthrates are much lower than African, Arab and Asian... that's what i was mostly referring to

looks like your education and science will be the death of you

It's a bunch of integrists who hire lawyers and they try to push their sharia way of life to the limits of what western society can allow. Prayers in the streets and what not, asking for pork to be removed from cafaterias and what not.

And you have white wokes who encourage for the sake of equality, but reality is, if you give them your hand soon they'll ask for your arm. People are not so foolish that's why all those leftist politicians are getting voted out.

So yeah extremists make a bad rep for muslims in general, and it seems like the muslim community is afraid to stand against them.

Make this about race if such simplicity satisfies you.

I love this entitled mentality immigrants and globalists have as if they are entitled to enter a country and be given welfare just for the sake of it.

For the ones who are defending it, who mostly seem to live in the richer parts of Europe and then anywhere in USA.

Just come to these countries and you will see what a mess has been caused by the zero immigration control, no screening no checks no background nothing.

Democracy as it is, is a broken concept and I dont care to embrace Muslim rules within Europe. Nobody has to.

And before anyone attacks me on my views of Muslims they dont even represent my views on them.

If anything Im too learned on the religion itself to know for a fact that this influx of refugees and immigrants quite literally do not follow their book's conduct as even the most right wing members here will agree on their likely lovely meetings with actual followers.

I can openly debate this and why the biggest religion in the world is also the most poorly followed.

futbol wrote:Let's not act like evil Europe invaded prospering, democratic, rich Middle East, took away all their wealth so they had no choice but come to Germany, crossing 7 or 8 different borders where they were already safe and now we have to live with their imported culture of gang-rape and knife crime

EL-G thought stealing was bad, and there comes futbol dressed in all-white with his culture of gang-rape and knife-crime

You've outdone me master

NATO, the CIA, Mossad, and other western intelligence agencies (I know nato isn’t an intelligence agency lol) have destabilized these countries though. That is a fact. Colonialism did actually happen pretty recently. However we have to critique these immigrants on an individual basis. Are they educated, smart, contributing to society? If the answer is no, then they have no one to blame but themselves and their culture for Le Pen and others getting into power. The victim mentality is strong in North Africans in France. Always crying about oppression and being proud of being ghetto losers. How about you just go to school (which is FREE in France) and get a job?


If you want to be Muslim, cool, worship your religion in peace and don’t push it onto others. That shit was utterly ridiculous to deal with growing up. Islam has a lot of great aspects to it but Salafism made it a cult and immortalized the Hadith which has some nasty aspects to it. As arq said, most of its practitioners aren’t even strict Muslims.

What a solid post.

The latter strikes me for Ive lost count in how poorly minorities are treated in Muslim countries but people from their land no only expect a red carpet for them to bum off the state but also everyone following their religious rules.


The religion is without flaw as I can prove that along with disapprove any misconceptions but its followed so poorly its become something else and reflects that in absolute trash that is let through the borders who mostly contribute fuck all to the state if not cause major problems.

33 churches burned in Canada not a peep of it anywhere and its obvious who has committed such arsons.

I think it's weird to pretend gang rapes and violence with knives are this new thing in Europe when Europeans themselves have become well known at both throughout the course of their own history. They spread out far and wide committing these acts on people they considered their lessers, hiding behind religion as their justification.

I posit that mass immigration would not have been a thing at all had the West not destabilized these regions with their imperialism and capitalistic greed.

Had the Western govts tried to reverse the damage they did to these regions, this situation may not exist today.

The chickens have come home to roost.

Myesyats wrote:

futbol wrote:Let's not act like evil Europe invaded prospering, democratic, rich Middle East, took away all their wealth so they had no choice but come to Germany, crossing 7 or 8 different borders where they were already safe and now we have to live with their imported culture of gang-rape and knife crime

EL-G thought stealing was bad, and there comes futbol dressed in all-white with his culture of gang-rape and knife-crime

You've outdone me master

haha, cool that we can add a bit of comedy to these serious talks (no sarcasm)

obviously it's crazy what futbol said

McLewis wrote:
Had the Western govts tried to reverse the damage they did to these regions, this situation may not exist today.

This statement implies that these regions had been stable before and we know history is not binary but way more complex.

Myesyats wrote:

McLewis wrote:
Had the Western govts tried to reverse the damage they did to these regions, this situation may not exist today.

This statement implies that these regions had been stable before and we know history is not binary but way more complex.

Actually they were quite stable (relative to its time) before the British decided to draw arbitrary borders that had nothing to do with reality.

Whoh, would not go that far. The French were disgusting and brutal in their colonization. Let’s not rewrite history. Yes, the Barbary vassal states were a problem but the French solution was beyond barbaric. All that I ask is for my people to be educated and strong and go to school. Theres no excuse for the crime. But McLewis makes a pretty good point. You reap what you sow.

McLewis wrote:I think it's weird to pretend gang rapes and violence with knives are this new thing in Europe when Europeans themselves have become well known at both throughout the course of their own history. They spread out far and wide committing these acts on people they considered their lessers, hiding behind religion as their justification.

I posit that mass immigration would not have been a thing at all had the West not destabilized these regions with their imperialism and capitalistic greed.

Had the Western govts tried to reverse the damage they did to these regions, this situation may not exist today.

The chickens have come home to roost.

Sure, sexually molesting minors in public swimming halls was a normal thing in Germany or Austria 15 years ago. Let's just burry our head in the sand.

Explain how Europe in particular apparently benefits from destabilizing the Middle East while voluntarily cutting of their gas supply from Russia and introducing European Union Emissions Trading System with an upper limit on CO2 emissions. "Hurr durr they want to steal oil" doesn't quite add up there.

Germany lost 2 World Wars, Japan ate 2 Nuclear Bombs, China was colonized by every Dick and Harry. They became 3 of the most technologically powerful, developed, civilized nations on the planet. Meanwhile Western woke people pretend that Africa or Middle East are what they are today because of Western injustice 300 years ago. This is based on the false belief that every culture is capable in the same way and if not then it's because of the bad evil white folks.

Go and make a holiday trip in Bangladesh then go to Shenzhen right after, maybe it will open your eyes. One place lives in the 1700s in the midst of garbage, the other in the 2100s with 250 mph trains. And it has nothing to do with "injustice and destabilization by the white guy".

Of course, he conceded, Britain’s list of sins was long. The colonial regime was racist. It promoted opium smoking, which ravaged countless lives in Singapore. Unemployment levels were high, and working conditions were often horrendous. And in the Second World War, Britain utterly failed to defend the colony against invasion by Japan, which subsequently killed countless Singaporeans.

And yet, and yet. “Unlike other colonial masters in Southeast Asia”, Koh wrote in the Straits Times, “the British did leave us with a positive legacy”.

“This includes the English language, the free port, free trade, open economy, good infrastructure, the rule of law, a good civil service and police force, town planning, public hygiene and modern medicine, a belief in science and modernity and an appreciation of nature and natural history.”

Singapore is now one of the most developed countries in the world, ahead of UK itself some would say

Pedram wrote:

Myesyats wrote:

McLewis wrote:
Had the Western govts tried to reverse the damage they did to these regions, this situation may not exist today.

This statement implies that these regions had been stable before and we know history is not binary but way more complex.

Actually they were quite stable (relative to its time) before the British decided to draw arbitrary borders that had nothing to do with reality.

The region was relatively stable for a time because the Ottomans exerted an authoritarian rule over it and stifled any unrest, but same tribal conflicts that you see now which did not start in the previous century

futbol wrote:

McLewis wrote:I think it's weird to pretend gang rapes and violence with knives are this new thing in Europe when Europeans themselves have become well known at both throughout the course of their own history. They spread out far and wide committing these acts on people they considered their lessers, hiding behind religion as their justification.

I posit that mass immigration would not have been a thing at all had the West not destabilized these regions with their imperialism and capitalistic greed.

Had the Western govts tried to reverse the damage they did to these regions, this situation may not exist today.

The chickens have come home to roost.

Sure, sexually molesting minors in public swimming halls was a normal thing in Germany or Austria 15 years ago. Let's just burry our head in the sand.

Explain how Europe in particular apparently benefits from destabilizing the Middle East while voluntarily cutting of their gas supply from Russia and introducing European Union Emissions Trading System with an upper limit on CO2 emissions. "Hurr durr they want to steal oil" doesn't quite add up there.

Germany lost 2 World Wars, Japan ate 2 Nuclear Bombs, China was colonized by every Dick and Harry. They became 3 of the most technologically powerful, developed, civilized nations on the planet. Meanwhile Western woke people pretend that Africa or Middle East are what they are today because of Western injustice 300 years ago. This is based on the false belief that every culture is capable in the same way and if not then it's because of the bad evil white folks.

Go and make a holiday trip in Bangladesh then go to Shenzhen right after, maybe it will open your eyes. One place lives in the 1700s in the midst of garbage, the other in the 2100s with 250 mph trains. And it has nothing to do with "injustice and destabilization by the white guy".

Oh my God holy fucking based

Myesyats wrote:

Of course, he conceded, Britain’s list of sins was long. The colonial regime was racist. It promoted opium smoking, which ravaged countless lives in Singapore. Unemployment levels were high, and working conditions were often horrendous. And in the Second World War, Britain utterly failed to defend the colony against invasion by Japan, which subsequently killed countless Singaporeans.

And yet, and yet. “Unlike other colonial masters in Southeast Asia”, Koh wrote in the Straits Times, “the British did leave us with a positive legacy”.

“This includes the English language, the free port, free trade, open economy, good infrastructure, the rule of law, a good civil service and police force, town planning, public hygiene and modern medicine, a belief in science and modernity and an appreciation of nature and natural history.”

Singapore is now one of the most developed countries in the world, ahead of UK itself some would say

Of course it's ahead of UK. What is your impression of UK as it is? It's a country thats been going downhill since WWII and at a total standstill.

Singapore, Dubai, etc. cities like these are all ahead of any city there.

South of UK to parts of Midlands are nice but up north its absolutely dire.

This reminds me of how Indians clamour on and on about how the British ruined them. Ruined what? Their clay and straw hovels and pieces of Gold along with the insanely discriminatory backwards Caste system?

I am not saying the Brits do not deserve praise for their brutal ruling of the country but for all that they quite literally set it up for the future. Indians still use:

Their education system
Railway system
I can go on.

Lets not forget how much Europe brought to the world quicker than any empire rather than just drawing mythological creatures across the poor cartography and saying no there's a giant kraken out west a dragon out east we cannot go there.

Few explorers chose to say fuck that and darted out west to explore.

^^modernity at what cost? who is to say things are overall better and spiritually healthier than it was when people believed in Gods, and strong forms of Patriarchy ran societies...

i just see it as part of evolution.... a thousand years from now, if we make it that far, things will look completely different than it does now... that's just how it goes, i guess

Society is better than ever and things are the best they have ever been.

Find me a few years ago here I said the complete opposite and was lambasted for it by more educated minds here.

Oh I'd choose to live in key times like 1700's England or 1950s USA but the above is a fact and the glorification of the past is a boomer or millennial thing if not any generation that gives birth to the next.


Your last point is a very good one.

I agree with the first point of spirituality and how religion can create beautiful societies but as of 2023 Ive turned on the embrace tradition, reject modernity because the conservatives and younglings who do that end up to be closeted repressive losers.

THE PEOPLE fighting pennies to dollar to survive in concrete jungles, breaking their minds and backs in bullshit office jobs, and live in a never-ending consumer mindset is the best we've ever done?

it's really just a perspective thing and not an objective fact