Nationalism in Europe [Controversial]

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Post by guest7 Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:24 pm

This year I'm considiring voting for the nationalistic party in Sweden (Sverige Demokraterna/Swedish Democrats) and I'm curious to hear if this is a wise decision?

My reasoning is that Sweden has no requirement on immigrants in Sweden. They don't have to learn the language, work, or basically anything that contributes to the society. It's bad for their children who grows up with parents that are not integrated to the society. These kids are the same kids burning cars in the parking lot and causing mass hysteria in Sweden imo. Their parents just don't care enough about what their kids are doing in their free time. Restrictive immigration policy sounds right to me.

How has this worked out in different countries? Europe seems to be shifting to nationalistic values and in France and Hungary the nationalistic party has won. We have a couple french posters so I'm curious did it become better?

It's worth noting this is my first year I'm voting. I'm 23 but I have been very neutral on politics and I'm not that dedicated to it. I just want my vote to count.
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Post by rincon Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:51 pm

I'm bored as hell at work so I'm diving into this Molenation

I think we only have two Swedes right? so not many of us can comment too much on if it is a wise decision (unless other posters are more familiar with Sweden), as every case its different, you can't really transpose one party from one country to another just because they are nationalist.

In the case of France that you mention, Le Pen (nationalist) got soundly beaten by Macron. Iirc she only got half the votes he did.

If you are looking for debate, I always think its interesting. I myself am certainly not for most nationalist parties, and since I am the product of successful immigration and I am a successful immigrant myself, then I'm obviously for immigration and globalization.

That said I am also not on that extreme, I agree that in most cases conditions for immigration and more importantly, integration, have to be improved. This is something the government is responsible for.

So if the current Swedish government is failing at it, I have to ask (because I don't know), what do the Swedish Democrats propose to fix the issue?

If it is simply "ban immigration" then that's ignoring the problem and burying your head in the sand.

One problem with many of these parties is that people vote them in because they don't want non-integrated migrants (or simply no immigrants) and so they chose a party with alienating politics, and nationalistic rhetoric. This in turn results in having the immigrants that are in the country (and new ones incoming) becoming even less integrated, as there is now a larger barrier to enter the (Swedish) society. So it just aggravates the problem.

Unless of course, the ideal society you want is to simply have no immigrants and then going hard closing borders is the solution.

The government has to take a proactive stance with immigrants of very different cultures to help them integrate, if it is a problem. More often than not, nationalist parties achieve the opposite.

My view is that if you are from a different culture and you are made to understand that culturally you have to try to be 100% Swedish (or whatever else) or you are out. Then that's probably gonna result in having bubbles of sub-cultures pop up in the society as people naturally retaliate to no lose their identity. On the other hand, if people are welcomed and encouraged to bring some of their cultures to contribute in the society then probably you get a more productive exchange for both sides. And you form new identities.

That's basically how we got kebabs and now who can live without kebabs anymore? hmm
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Post by guest7 Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:27 pm

I myself is a succesful immigrant. I'm actually Palestinian but I was born in Sweden and speak Swedish more fluently than arabic.

I liked Jimmie Åkesson (the party leader) speech in "My Sweden 2028" where he basically said the ideal Swedish home must be built by Swedes and immigrants together, or else immigration will fail. He also said they won't ban immigrants all together, as that is unrealistic and Sweden has never done that before! So there will be no "ban" exactly. But there will be a more restrictive immigration policy... What he means by that I've no idea. I don't know if they are planning on forcing them to learn the language before they become citizens (which I think is a great idea) or if they are planning on taking EU immigrants only.

What I hate about them is the strategic voting by nazists and racists. They see the them leading and becoming big and use their votes on them. Thus it makes alot of SD's voters racists and nazis! This is noticable in their comments in their instagram and facebook where alot of their comments come of as racist to me. This strategic voting goes further too, some of their members are undercover nazis. There seems to be some behind the scenes work where they hide their nazist views to gain voters. This is exactly my complaint with SD; I have no idea if I can trust them.

But you can't deny that their policies and ideas are reasonable. There needs to be a more restrictive immigration policy where immigrants have to learn the language before they become citizens. What I dislike about Sweden right now is that alot of the people you meet don't speak the language at all. And they don't speak English either so communication is like zero. And they don't go to school to learn because they own a kebabshop or something where they speak their own language all day.

I like their party leader alot though. Seems like a perfectly reasonable man. But can I trust the party? I don't know at all.

But yes, I want a debate on nationalism in Europe. How has it been working? Is it the best for the country?

EDIT: After reading abit on the France nationalist party, she seems much dumber than Jimmie Åkesson seems.
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Post by Robespierre Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:40 pm

A  drift in right side also here, hoping it will end soon
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Post by Unique Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:05 pm

guest7 wrote:This year I'm considiring voting for the nationalistic party in Sweden (Sverige Demokraterna/Swedish Democrats) and I'm curious to hear if this is a wise decision?

My reasoning is that Sweden has no requirement on immigrants in Sweden. They don't have to learn the language, work, or basically anything that contributes to the society. It's bad for their children who grows up with parents that are not integrated to the society. These kids are the same kids burning cars in the parking lot and causing mass hysteria in Sweden imo. Their parents just don't care enough about what their kids are doing in their free time. Restrictive immigration policy sounds right to me.

How has this worked out in different countries? Europe seems to be shifting to nationalistic values and in France and Hungary the nationalistic party has won. We have a couple french posters so I'm curious did it become better?

It's worth noting this is my first year I'm voting. I'm 23 but I have been very neutral on politics and I'm not that dedicated to it. I just want my vote to count.
imagine taking in loads of immigrants giving them benifits and a nice house to live in and then have them shit on your country and your people. then do nothing about it because you are scared of offending them. thats the problem with the world today people are to soft. if i were in charge in sweden i would round them up and beat them until i couldent lift my arms up anymore then put them on a boat back to where they came from. thats how you deal with that problem. if people want to act like animals then you treat them like animals.
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Post by Thimmy Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:07 pm

guest7 wrote:I myself is a succesful immigrant. I'm actually Palestinian but I was born in Sweden and speak Swedish more fluently than arabic.

I liked Jimmie Åkesson (the party leader) speech in "My Sweden 2028" where he basically said the ideal Swedish home must be built by Swedes and immigrants together, or else immigration will fail. He also said they won't ban immigrants all together, as that is unrealistic and Sweden has never done that before! So there will be no "ban" exactly. But there will be a more restrictive immigration policy... What he means by that I've no idea. I don't know if they are planning on forcing them to learn the language before they become citizens (which I think is a great idea) or if they are planning on taking EU immigrants only.

What I hate about them is the strategic voting by nazists and racists. They see the them leading and becoming big and use their votes on them. Thus it makes alot of SD's voters racists and nazis! This is noticable in their comments in their instagram and facebook where alot of their comments come of as racist to me. This strategic voting goes further too, some of their members are undercover nazis. There seems to be some behind the scenes work where they hide their nazist views to gain voters. This is exactly my complaint with SD; I have no idea if I can trust them.

But you can't deny that their policies and ideas are reasonable. There needs to be a more restrictive immigration policy where immigrants have to learn the language before they become citizens. What I dislike about Sweden right now is that alot of the people you meet don't speak the language at all. And they don't speak English either so communication is like zero. And they don't go to school to learn because they own a kebabshop or something where they speak their own language all day.

I like their party leader alot though. Seems like a perfectly reasonable man. But can I trust the party? I don't know at all.

But yes, I want a debate on nationalism in Europe. How has it been working? Is it the best for the country?

EDIT: After reading abit on the France nationalist party, she seems much dumber than Jimmie Åkesson seems.



It's a similar situation here. The people who don't speak Norwegian nor English, still seem to be a relatively small minority here, although I've met quite a few immigrants who have lived here for nearly a decade and are hardly able to speak very basic Norwegian. There's a part of the city that I currently live in, where there's a large concentration of immigrants, and a substantial amount of them don't seem willing to adapt to the culture. They've basically created a small, middle-eastern/African society that doesn't require them to adapt or move anywhere else, unless it's required for work.

It's obviously an issue, but these things don't fix themselves, and there's little that can be done about it, since these immigrants can't be forced to come out of their comfort zone. Coming up with solutions for fixing such issues seems to be quite hopeless, since they can all be countered and shut down with "that's racist/xenophobic", and I suppose that's how it is in a lot of European countries, these days.

I used to live in Stockholm, and I went back there to visit some friends recently. The city has really changed over the course of 10 years Razz When I lived there, I got the impression that most Swedes had a "happy go lucky" attitude towards immigration. Nowadays, that positivity seems to have faded almost completely. I think Åkesson is right, though. For the sake of the best outcome for both natives and immigrants, both parts need to work together as a united population to the best of their ability. Currently, there are a lot of issues with this harmony, and I believe that's why more Europeans who used to consider themselves liberal and progressive, are now voting for nationalist parties. On the other hand, you have nazis who, like you mentioned, are driving people away from the nationalist parties. There's no easy and ideal party to vote for in these cases.

I voted for the nationalist party, myself, and some of my friends and colleagues seemed to think that was controversial, but I don't think they'd frown upon their politics as much if they actually knew what said party's politics are about. There's little that can be done about individual members of the party that may or may not be actual nazis, but I like to believe that in progressive countries like Sweden and Norway, those individuals won't have much substantial influence, anyway.
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Post by rincon Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:31 pm

Saying that there is little that can be done for integration is just saying that you don't want to deal with immigration. Norway has no history of immigrants from different continents so many citizens act like its hopeless, when these things have happened for centuries in other places.

Few people truly want to be excluded from their surroundings if there are tools available to them to live a more expansive life.

Having this attitude is part of what leads to integration being difficult. In Norway its such a small scale and small problem yet this is the reaction, supporting people who may be nazis to combat it. Not wanting there to be immigration from certain places it's a valid position to have, this is what this is in the end.
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Post by Unique Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:47 pm

rincon wrote:Saying that there is little that can be done for integration is just saying that you don't want to deal with immigration. Norway has no history of immigrants from different continents so many citizens act like its hopeless, when these things have happened for centuries in other places.

Few people truly want to be excluded from their surroundings if there are tools available to them to live a more expansive life.

Having this attitude is part of what leads to integration being difficult. In Norway its such a small scale and small problem yet this is the reaction, supporting people who may be nazis to combat it. Not wanting there to be immigration from certain places it's a valid position to have, this is what this is in the end.
it is the immigrants that need to change the way they live to fit into the country that has taken them in not the other way around. all to often the governments and people bend over backwards for these people and most of the time its just not good enough for them. not all of them because i think a lot of it comes down to where they come from and what background they come from. but most of the time they have that race card ready to play faster than a 6 shooter
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Post by rincon Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:07 pm

Unique wrote:
rincon wrote:Saying that there is little that can be done for integration is just saying that you don't want to deal with immigration. Norway has no history of immigrants from different continents so many citizens act like its hopeless, when these things have happened for centuries in other places.

Few people truly want to be excluded from their surroundings if there are tools available to them to live a more expansive life.

Having this attitude is part of what leads to integration being difficult. In Norway its such a small scale and small problem yet this is the reaction, supporting people who may be nazis to combat it. Not wanting there to be immigration from certain places it's a valid position to have, this is what this is in the end.
it is the immigrants that need to change the way they live to fit into the country that has taken them in not the other way around. all to often the governments and people bend over backwards for these people and most of the time its just not good enough for them. not all of them because i think a lot of it comes down to where they come from and what background they come from. but most of the time they have that race card ready to play faster than a 6 shooter

This is the case 99% of the time. We are talking about a small fraction of a small population. In the end most immigrants in most places end up learning the language and adapting. In irregular situations like a refugee crisis you have more of an issue as its sudden emigration due to an emergency. Then its about wanting to help people or not.

Is it worth your country's time to help integrate the outliers that may bother part of society, or is it better to act in such an inflexible way just to prove a point?
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Post by Thimmy Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:11 am

rincon wrote:Saying that there is little that can be done for integration is just saying that you don't want to deal with immigration. Norway has no history of immigrants from different continents so many citizens act like its hopeless, when these things have happened for centuries in other places.

Few people truly want to be excluded from their surroundings if there are tools available to them to live a more expansive life.

Having this attitude is part of what leads to integration being difficult. In Norway its such a small scale and small problem yet this is the reaction, supporting people who may be nazis to combat it. Not wanting there to be immigration from certain places it's a valid position to have, this is what this is in the end.



I don't even know where to begin with this comment. The core of the problem here is the progressive, liberal mindset in Scandinavia specifically - and in turn, our insistence on immigrating beyond our capacity and blaming ourselves for issues that can only be resolved through a mutual effort. I don't know how you perceived anything I said as unwillingness to deal with it. I simply can't think of a solution to the issues that could possibly bypass the overly sensitive, contemporary racism detector of Sweden and Norway. Even US and UK politicians have substantially more leeway, in terms of discussing topics concerning immigration. Also, there's a world of difference between this and the gradual immigration that occured over time, starting decades ago or longer, on other continents. I'm sure you realize that. There are several other countries in Europe that have increasing issues with immigration these days, even the ones that have a longer history of multiculturalism.

"Supporting people who may be nazis to combat it". What are you talking about? Even the left-wing parties may have nazis in them, for all I know. That wouldn't have prevented me from supporting them. The nationalist party here in Norway is multi-cultural, and the reason why they have to refute claims that they're a nazi party, is largely because people assume they are. I don't care about the nazis, I wish they'd been extinct by now. A potential concern would be how much influence they would have on the actions and decision-making of the party, but I find it hard to imagine that they would have any substantial influence, considering the Scandinavian mindset and our 0 tolerance for their ideologies. Norway's last remaining Nazi organisation used to have their HQ in the town where I grew up, and their influence amounted to a creating their own website, failing to create their own political party, and later, sudden disbandment. Their former group leader was recently on the news, where he talked about isolating himself in a cabin in the forest, where he's struggling with depression, poor health and and alcohol addiction Laughing Enough about that. This has nothing to do with not wanting immigration from certain places, it's about our cultural inability to integrate refugees, and our inability to adapt and resolve the resulting consequences. It makes no difference whether it's small scale or large scale, it's still an issue, and I want our mentality to change so we can better it in the future. Hell, I'd argue it's already a relatively large-scale issue in Sweden.

Both Sweden and Norway took in more immigrants from Syria than they were capable of handling. Sweden even continued the process of unsustainable immigration for a while after the obvious issue had been recognized, and it caused unnecessary economic issues, as well as stress and uncertainty for the immigrants with children who had to be moved around and put in temporary housing that sometimes offered relatively poor living conditions as a last resort. Generous business owners and celebrities chipped in to provide additional, temporary shelters and food, but the situation was far from ideal, and something tells me Sweden will repeat the same mistake again in the future. It may sound like a relatively trivial ordeal, but it's later been revealed that some of these cases left lasting psychological marks on the younger immigrants that had no disposible housing upon arrival. Don't tell me this couldn't have been prevented if the excess portion of immigrants had been sent to a different country.  

In Sweden's case, I think a problem that I've hardly heard anything about anywhere is that their shallow obsession with being a model country for a working social justice system is in some cases so extreme that the problems they may face in the process is something they don't seem to care much about until they're forced to resolve the issues it may result in. For about a decade now, I've discussed issues with Swedes relating to immigration and their most recent efforts to appeal to the LGBT community, again, as a means of being at the forefront as a social justice society. The last topic we discussed was their gender fluid schools that are experiencing surprisingly high suicide rates, among other issues. I'm all for combating discrimination and improving general conditions for transgenders, but that's a different discussion. My point is, I like to think that a sensible person would see the obvious links between the high suicide rates and schools that tell biologically male boys of transgender parents that they should wear pink dresses and play with Barbie dolls, and vice-versa. But no, the scandinavian mindset dictates that it's our society's fault and we just need to improve our tolerance. As a non-Scandinavian, I don't expect you to be able to relate, although you studied here for a brief period of time. As a Canadian, I'm sure you have some experience with the social justice movement, but I don't think even Canada rivals Sweden in terms of the aforementioned obsession for it.

If our government thinks that persuasion is the only way to integrate the portion of immigrants who don't want to be persuaded, then what can the common citizen do? Evidently, constructive criticism just gets struck down with the racism card, which is why we, in the most extreme cases, have to resort to BS, roundabout crap like, ineffective "rape prevention classes", disguised as "cultural integration classes" as a pre-requisite to be able to cash in on welfare checks. Surely it would be more effective to not beat around the bush, and inform them of the cultural differences, as well as the consequences of breaking our most essential, social norms.
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Post by rincon Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:32 am

Thimmy wrote:
"Supporting people who may be nazis to combat it". What are you talking about?
I was literally quoting your post when I wrote that.
Thimmy wrote:I voted for the nationalist party, myself, [...] There's little that can be done about individual members of the party that may or may not be actual nazis
I don't particularly know or care if these people are nazis, but upon reading your post I thought it was funny that the tone of it was fairly mild while also brushing under the rug that they may be nazis but hoping that in the end it won't matter much.

Now an argument against immigration doesn't have to be racist, I don't think this even the case at all here. But I wasn't the one who brought up voting for nazis Laughing

Lets talk more seriously now
Thimmy wrote:I don't know how you perceived anything I said as unwillingness to deal with it
Its that, or misinformation. Your wrote "there is little that can be done" "Coming up with solutions for fixing such issues seems to be quite hopeless" its not hopeless, and there are solutions. That is, if one is willing to look for them and pay the costs. Only thing that can make it hopeless is enough people thinking it so. This isn't a new phenomenon. There are always downsides with immigration, as there are upsides. There are obviously gonna be problems with taking in a significant number of refugees as they disrupt the status quo and to some degree change the nature of the existing society. This is exactly what I meant when I said that it is not something Norway seems to have experienced, or presently has experience with.
Thimmy wrote:Also, there's a world of difference between this and the gradual immigration that occured over time, starting decades ago or longer, on other continents. I'm sure you realize that
But who talked about gradual immigration? compare gradual immigration to gradual immigration and refugee waves with refugee waves. This situation exists, and has failed, and has also been successful, depending on how it was handled. Like I mentioned before, my family were immigrants, refugees. They came with as many more with them as they could, fleeing war to a different continent looking for a new life. Integration is absolutely possible and solutions do exist and can be created for different cases. Again the question is, how much effort are people willing to put in?
Thimmy wrote:it's about our cultural inability to integrate refugees, and our inability to adapt and resolve the resulting consequences. It makes no difference whether it's small scale or large scale, it's still an issue, and I want our mentality to change so we can better it in the future
Exactly my point. Now if this is the goal, then what are the steps to change this mentality to make it happen? We can believe it is possible change our mentality, or we can believe it isn't. If we believe that it is possible, like you (and I) say you want, then surely solutions exists and steps to take can be formulated. It goes back to my earlier point about your first post. You believe in working towards this. At the same time you see little that can be done, and think that finding a solution seems hopeless. Then it seemed to me as a matter of wanting to deal with it or not, at least not enough to make a change that you say would help.

We all basically have a different 'line' we aren't willing to cross in terms of lifestyle changes to accommodate foreign people in need. Like Unique with his hardline approach he embraces fully.

This is an issue that I know closely as my gf (norwegian) works in integration in Oslo. I'm here atm and every 6-7th week. I might settle here in the future. And while I can't (and probably won't ever be able to) vote, I take an interest as is an important topic, and relates to my gf's career.

Thimmy wrote:Surely it would be more effective to not beat around the bush, and inform them of the cultural differences, as well as the consequences of breaking our most essential, social norms
Absolutely. This is part of the things that must be done. Ignoring cultural differences and problems goes no way towards solving anything.
Thimmy wrote:If our government thinks that persuasion is the only way to integrate the portion of immigrants who don't want to be persuaded, then what can the common citizen do?
Everything. The reason we are having this conversation is because guest7 believes that his vote can actually have a big impact in his country's politics. I think most of us living in europe think so, otherwise we wouldn't be scared/relieved when we see left or right (depending on who we like) parties win in this section in GL. I'm assuming you mean the progress party in norway (scratch this if its not the case) so they won a bunch of seats and made it to power. I don't believe Norwegian democracy is screwed to the point where these things are worthless.


Last edited by rincon on Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by rincon Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:44 am

I'm not Canadian btw, those are my J-associates Luca and Warrior.
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Post by Thimmy Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:31 am

Why are you up so late, man? Razz Yes, I did mean the progress party. I chose not to write progress party, as I figured the name would cause confusion. People typically associate parties of this type with conservatism, after all.

I've talked to quite a few immigrants who are concerned about the immigration situation in Norway. In fact, immigrants seem to be more openly concerned and talkative about it than native Norwegians are. Norwegians don't like to talk about it. It makes them uncomfortable, and they typically attempt to dodge the topic entirely.

Now that I think about it, the only time I've ever had a somewhat honest discussion about immigration with another Norwegian, was last year when I witnessed a couple get beaten up and mugged by an assumed immigrant. Naturally, they were upset and felt like venting their frustration by saying some petty things in the heat of the moment that were uncalled for. But that was probably the only time I've had a discussion about immigration that wasn't either excessively positive or one that ended before it started. I'm under the impression that the average Norwegian just isn't culturally programmed to deal with issues like these. On one side, you have the ultra progressives who spend amazing amounts of brain power on suggesting name changes for job titles that sound too masculine or feminine. On the other side, you have people like me who are too fed up with their enthusiastically irrational responses to bother. I do care. Then again, I'll probably live a longer and more fulfilling life if I don't give them an arbitrary reason to write a blog about me on #MeToo. I didn't like the "nurse" title, anyway..
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Post by rincon Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:58 am

I'm in a *bleep* up work schedule so I got myself in this cycle of working till 3am but waking up late. :facepalm:

I agree on the not having an honest discussion about it many times in norway. This is a comment that I had from my old adviser and co-adviser in oslo once, as well as stuff my gf faces at work. Parts of Europe in general got hit by this topic while unprepared due to the refugee situation in north Africa.

This happened to venezuela decades ago. Countless Europeans went there as war refugees. Then as immigrants escaping the post war. Then other south Americans escaping dictators or looking for a better economy. Now it reversed and Venezuelans became first immigrants and now refugees themselves. So we are quite used to the topic as it is part of our identity (even originally our identity was born as a mix with Spaniards), even more so now as collectively we know what it is to be on both sides of this process.

It makes it clear for me, at some point everyone needs help. So I hope help is given by those that are in the position to do so and that it becomes beneficial for everyone in the end.

One thing that makes considering this more honestly I think is trying to think what your ideal society looks like. One shouldn't feel guilty if the answer is not 100 cultures living together, but then one should be honest about whatever it is. Then moving to thinking how much are you willing to change in order to accommodate people in need, as everything requires some sacrifice. Basically the same concept of high taxes, social democracy, and welfare states, but with the "national" part reduced. Everyone has a different tolerance, and most are reasonable answers.
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Post by Thimmy Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:36 pm

Must've gotten you mixed up with Luca. Apologies Razz
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Post by Nishankly Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:07 pm

I've said this a lot of times, this is probably the last time I'm going to say it. I don't understand how someone with no skills can enter Europe and stay permanently while you have 25 laws stopping an educated skilled professionals to immigrate or even do an internship for 2 months.

It makes your own country unsafer and your own countrymen dumber on the global scale. Your country is ultimately left with a bunch of Uniques who generalize cultures based on a bunch of shop keepers who are probably illegal from the 1990s.
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:14 pm

You still shouldn't vote for the nationalists, though.
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Post by Nishankly Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:15 pm

Nationalism is absolutely fair in Europe, majority of crimes are committed by immigrants who are on the streets. But right wing is not a solution, stricter immigration laws and a full review are.

I am more scared about my surroundings in France compared to India. I can get mugged at knife point in daylight in Paris but nothing like that would never happen in my country.
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Post by Adit Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:18 pm

Nishankly wrote:I've said this a lot of times, this is probably the last time I'm going to say it. I don't understand how someone with no skills can enter Europe and stay permanently while you have 25 laws stopping an educated skilled professionals to immigrate or even do an internship for 2 months.

It makes your own country unsafer and your own countrymen dumber on the global scale. Your country is ultimately left with a bunch of Uniques who generalize cultures based on a bunch of shop keepers who are probably illegal from the 1990s.


Because skilled white collar jobs are not in abundance. It is the unskilled jobs that are in abundance in Europe.
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Post by Nishankly Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:19 pm

Adit wrote:
Nishankly wrote:I've said this a lot of times, this is probably the last time I'm going to say it. I don't understand how someone with no skills can enter Europe and stay permanently while you have 25 laws stopping an educated skilled professionals to immigrate or even do an internship for 2 months.

It makes your own country unsafer and your own countrymen dumber on the global scale. Your country is ultimately left with a bunch of Uniques who generalize cultures based on a bunch of shop keepers who are probably illegal from the 1990s.


Because skilled white collar jobs are not in abundance. It is the unskilled jobs that are in abundance in Europe.


Since you know more about this topic, is it the currency strength? The fact that cheap labor from underdeveloped nations can account for these jobs?
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Post by RealGunner Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:20 pm

Nishankly wrote:Nationalism is absolutely fair in Europe, majority of crimes are committed by immigrants who are on the streets. But right wing is not a solution, stricter immigration laws and a full review are.

I am more scared about my surroundings in France compared to India. I can get mugged at knife point in daylight in Paris but nothing like that would never happen in my country.



Wait, what?
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Post by Nishankly Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:28 pm

Yeah, just spend enough time reading the official crime reports from any country. Every country has a list out of preparators per country of birth statistics from 09- onwards. Pretty easy to see unless you purposely ignore it.
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Post by RealGunner Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:34 pm

Nishankly wrote:Yeah, just spend enough time reading the official crime reports from any country. Every country has a list out of preparators per country of birth statistics from 09- onwards. Pretty easy to see unless you purposely ignore it.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/219967/stats-race-cjs-2010.pdf

80% of crime committed in the UK was done by white British nationals. 70% of the prison population consists of white British nationals.

"Between 2006 and 2010, the number of British nationals in the prison
population increased by 7% from 66,160 to 71,016. In the same period, the
growth of foreign national prisoners was 2%, rising from 10,879 in 2006 to
11,135 in 2010."
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Post by Nishankly Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:36 pm

Brexit means Brexit.
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Post by Nishankly Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:43 pm

Well regardless, I still hold the feeling that no country should allow unskilled immigration unless it's war refugees. Obviously that's just me and my personal opinion.
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