Re: Ze German Thread

by sportsczy Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:44 pm

Papin had zero goals in 1986 too for France going into the WC as I recall. Thierry Henry had 1 I believe going into WC 1998. I think Trezeguet was sitting on 1 or 2 goals as well going into WC 1998 (maybe even zero lol).

Sometimes, you need to pick young talent over immediate results because of what they can possibly bring. Low decided against that. His choice.

by S Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Irrelevant how many goals Trezeguet or Henry had before they made it back then. Sane has FLOPPED every time he puts on that Germany jersey. How does this continue to escape people's minds ffs

He was once again dogshite in that recent friendly against Austria. He had his chances and he dint take it , period. No amount of dazzling performances against the Brighton's and the Swansea's changes that.

by Unique Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:54 pm

sportsczy wrote:Papin had zero goals in 1986 too for France going into the WC as I recall. Thierry Henry had 1 I believe going into WC 1998. I think Trezeguet was sitting on 1 or 2 goals as well going into WC 1998 (maybe even zero lol).

Sometimes, you need to pick young talent over immediate results because of what they can possibly bring. Low decided against that. His choice.

the only time you pick young talent over immediate results are when you have no chance of getting immediate results and thats not the case for germany.

by sportsczy Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:02 pm

Henry and Trezeguet did nothing before WC 1998 either for NT... but they were dynamic at Monaco.

by elitedam Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:17 pm

Didn't Henry and Trezeguet also do nothing during the WC in 98?

by sportsczy Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:46 pm

elitedam wrote:Didn't Henry and Trezeguet also do nothing during the WC in 98?

Henry was very good. Trezeguet never got much of a chance.

by elitedam Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:06 pm

I could've sworn that going into the final France's main problem was that their forwards were terrible. Am i wrong? Maybe my football memory is and has always been shit.

by VivaStPauli Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:55 am

Sané plays on the left.
Reus and Draxler also play on the left.
Reus is immensely more interesting and clinical than either of them, and Draxler has only had good games for the NT in recent memory.
If Sané had shown more versatility, which usually comes with experience, he might've come along.
But as it is now we have a dire need of right wingers, wo Brandt comes as the backup for Müller.

This isn't surprising once you realize Löw really, really wants to stop playing players out of position. As much as I still think Löw is a mid-range coach, he seems to have realized at the 2014 WC what all of us living room couch managers have realized in 2010: a good player in his position is probably better than a great player out of position. Germany vastly improved in 2014 once Lahm was back at RB.

Löw learned from this, we took exactly 2 players for each position, except GK.
Werner and Gomez
Reus and Draxler
Müller and Brandt
Özil and Gündogan
Khedira and Goretzka
Kroos and Rudy
Hector and Plattenhardt
Hummels and Süle
Boateng and Rüdiger
Kimmich and Ginter

Yeah Sané is probably better than Rudy or even Brandt, but Brandt hast been better for the NT and Rudy is a CM, so Sané stays at home until he starts bringing his A-Game for the NT.

Personally, I would've taken Sané as a wild card and left Rudy at home, midfield can rotate, plus Ginter can help out there. But I can perfectly understand Löws reasoning.

by Hapless_Hans Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:47 pm

Germany team vs Saudi Arabia

1 Neuer (C) - 3 Hector, 5 Hummels, 6 Khedira, 7 Draxler, 8 Kroos, 9 Werner, 11 Reus, 13 Müller, 17 Boateng, 18 Kimmich.

After the prospects and hopefuls played vs Austria, today it is the complete A team, only with Draxler for Özil who has some knee injury.
This team will start at the World Cup, with Özil for Draxler

by urbaNRoots Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:21 pm

I love Marco Reus, will have a big tournament!

by Hapless_Hans Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:44 pm

Shit on a stick football if I ever saw one

by elfmeter Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:18 am

I only managed to see the 2nd half of the Saudi game, but never the less, I am putting in a petition to FIFA to have the German national team replaced by Austria. If J-Low knows what is good for him, he will take that deal,they wont make it out of the group stage.
I can tell you, this team is worse than the 2002 team. Sane should be happy to not be on this team of sleepwalkers

by Babun Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:39 am

There is an unbelievable shitstorm vs Özil and Gündogan because they took a picture together with the Turkish president as an ad for the upcoming election. The act is regarded by most Germans as betrayal towards Germany.

Each time Özil/ Gündogan touches the ball or enter the field the fans whistle at them. From the PR perspective, in Germany, they are finished. I also don't think they can play 100% if own fans are actively protesting.

https://www.sportnews.bz/artikel/weitere-sportarten/events/fussball-wm-2018/treffen-von-oezil-und-guendogan-mit-erdogan-bundespraesident-ein-bisschen-ratlos

By the way, I support the view.

by Sri Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:13 am

I ordered an Özil jersey last week, so still within the 14 day period. I decided to return it when I saw this stuff in the news.

Going to get a trikot without a name instead.

by VivaStPauli Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:30 am

If Reus actually bords the flight to Russia, I might get a Reus jersey. Blank otherwise, I think. I wanted to get Boateng, but then I reminded myself he's a Bayern player, and I already broke my own promise when I got those Müller jerseys...

by messixaviesta Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:54 am

elfmeter wrote:I only managed to see the 2nd half of the Saudi game, but never the less, I am putting in a petition to FIFA to have the German national team replaced by Austria. If J-Low knows what is good for him, he will take that deal,they wont make it out of the group stage.
I can tell you, this team is worse than the 2002 team. Sane should be happy to not be on this team of sleepwalkers

Germany have a habit of peaking at the right time. I am sure they will make the semi finals at least.

by messixaviesta Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:02 am

elitedam wrote:I could've sworn that going into the final France's main problem was that their forwards were terrible. Am i wrong? Maybe my football memory is and has always been shit.

You are right. Guivarch was the striker. Dugarry and Djorkaeff were the support forwards. Henry was too young, not a starter and if I am not wrong in those days he used to play as a winger for Monaco.

by messixaviesta Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:08 am

sportsczy wrote:Mueller was an elite scorer in 2014... and Klose was still pretty decent to help him out. Problem is they don't have a prime Mueller that the defense needs to focus on this time around.

France won the WC in 1998 with basically no proven scorer... but we had an all time defense that allowed literally zero goals. You also had a transcendent player in Zidane that showed up huge in the Final. I don't see that great defense and a transcendent player in this squad.

Still a very good squad that deserves to be part of the favorites. But it's not THE favorite by any stretch.

Still in 1998 Brazil were the overwhelming favorites until Ronaldo had that mysterious fit.

by messixaviesta Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:17 am

BarcaLearning wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Reus... 7 goals all comps this season
Mueller.. 15 goals
Werner... 21 goals

Strong midfield means nothing if there's nobody that can finish. As a Real Madrid fan, we know this very well. Modric/Kroos/Casemiro were great to start the season... but we had no scorers with CR, Benzema and Bale all out of form. We couldn't score as a result. Only when CR became an alpha scorer once again did we string results together.

Nothing confusing about it. This Germany basically looks like Spain did once Villa and Torres were no longer there... a lot of good midfield play with very little final product since there were no scorers. In fact, Spain still has the same problem if Costa isn't ticking.

I agree with the no scorers problem, and I thought exactly that at the last WC though, but they still won it, and this has always been the Germany style in the years past I think?

The last WC they used Klose who did some, but he was more of a presence, and goals from Muller and others, or set pieces... often a WC can be won be emphasis on defense more than scoring goals, which isnt entertaining, but results is what matters in the end to winning. Just saying. Im not sure but this Germany despite so many talents, just doesnt feel that complete, but still probably the main favourite when comparing all the teams.

Germany had started off with Mario Gotze as a false number 9 in 2014 but that tactic just did not work. Neither did Mario Gomez. Only when Miroslav Klose was restored to the starting lineup did Germany begin to look really good. This caused Ozil to be shifted to the left and pretty much the fringes of the team but it still worked very well in the larger interests of the team.

Miroslav Klose is one of the best examples of a player with perhaps an above average (but not great) career at club level but an absolute legend at international level. He performed in not one, not two, not three but four world cups. Never a player from whom too much was expected but he delivered much more than he was asked to.

by VivaStPauli Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:08 am

So Löw made his decision and he's staying.

I'd rather he didn't. It was nice to enjoy the resurgence of German football that came along with him, he won us a title, after all. Yet there always remain the questions about whether we couldn't have had a run like Spain did, after all one can't help but feel like the titles in 2010 and 2012 were doable as well, though admittedly 2010 is probably BS, we already overachieved by reaching the Semis back then.

Some of the shortcomings of the team, I feel, are not at all Löws fault. Some players simply didn't ignite, and he certainly didn't order players to play shittily. We haven't found a suitable replacement for Schweinsteiger, or Lahm, but mostly Schweinsteiger, in terms of leadership and grit.

I don't mean this in the stupid tabloid way that always want some testosterone-driven semi-Neanderthal in the Ballack mould to yell, and spit, and grip his crotch. I really just mean someone like Schweinsteiger, who'd get angry when the team loses. Who plugs every freaking hole no matter where on the pitch it opens up. Who'll play on when his face is bleeding, who doesn't go down fishing for free kicks when his team clearly would profit more from a show of tenacity.

I feel like right now, German football needs a clear cut, like Löw did, when he came in, and kick out some players who probably deserve better. Or try to re-energize tired-looking established players with new ideas and a new game plan. I kind of refuse to believe that players like Müller are shit now, just because they looked absolutely apathetic during this World Cup. The man is leading the Bundesliga in assists, and I've watched his matches, he really had a decent season once Ancelotti left. I don't really have to judge Boateng after he just came back from injury.
But what the hell was up with Khedira, for example? Had a world-beating season with Juve and is absolutely scrubbing it for the NT.

A new coach would have no issue with dismissing established players. I know it is heartless, but I really believe it would do us some good if someone like Breitenreiter or Hasenhüttl came in until Klopp comes (obviously dreaming btw), and rejuvenates the whole squad.
Midfield can easily be run by the likes of Weigl, Goretzka, Meyer etc, none of which have the baggage people like Gündogan or Khedira have. With what we've seen at the WC we should probably be captained by Reus and start Brandt, take along Sané and forget we ever heard about the likes of Draxler.

And there's plenty of players Löw has always just plainly ignored. I am really appreciative of the obviously fighting types, the guys who don't give up. I know we came back against Sweden, but I want the kind of guys like Schweinsteiger, that would've yelled at their team so hard during the first 20 minutes of the Korea game we would've probably had to sub someone for shattered ear drums, yet would also be up 3-0.

Now it's on as it was. We'll probably win every game in the Euros qualifier now, yet not win anything. This will play on repeat until Löw goes. And that's the gentle interpretation of things. We might also suck now, until someone shakes it up. I just really wish we'd get rid of Löw. That weirdo. Throwing his worst performers on the pitch time and time again.

Maybe just take the risk of sucking because our squad is too young and roll the dice anyway. We did great with almost zero experience in 2010.
There's plenty of young blood. We got Henrichs, Havertz, Amiri, Dahoud, Weigl, Philipp, Klostermann, Younes, Uth, Gnabry, Eggestein and friggin' Sané all sitting at home, twiddling their thumbs. Of course not all of them will work out, but with that performance, we probably need to shake it up.

And enough with the bloody possession-based football. Our best football we played undoubtedly in 2010 with hard pressing, counter-attack and only a bit of possession to tire out the opponent, before Löws mind was poisoned by van Gaals insanity and Agent Pep's infectious boredom.

Get Löw out, throw some shit against the wall, and see what sticks, is what I say.

by VivaStPauli Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:34 am

PS: Just realize it's 2018 not 2014, so add 2016 to the list of titles we could've reasonably won. Of course, though, injuries.

by urbaNRoots Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:04 am

I don't know what else he has to do to get sacked? Not qualify for Euro 2020?

by Thimmy Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:32 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:

Get Löw out, throw some shit against the wall, and see what sticks, is what I say.

Wanna know what's German, brown, and really sticks to the wall? Nutella!

Ze German Thread - Page 6 Z

by iftikhar Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:59 am

VivaStPauli wrote:So Löw made his decision and he's staying.

The post though :bow:

by VivaStPauli Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:53 pm

Because of recent developments, Bierhoff should leave too, and Özil should start until he retires just to spite him.

by Babun Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:55 am

The situation is ridiculious. Bierhoff tried to make Özil into the scapegoat for the failure, it backfired at him so he had to "excuse" himself. DFB cannot take the shitstorm anymore so they want to force Özil to give a statement. Why couldn't they bother with it before? And how are players supposed to believe and give 100% for a coach who is so fickle?
Out with Bierhoff, Löw, Özil and the DFB president! Change is needed..

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