Re: Ze German Thread

by S Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:34 pm

Germany with or without Sane aren't going far. It doesn't matter really :coffee:

by M99 Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:33 pm

Sane was not entitled a spot in the squad. He got loads of chances, did not impress at all, does not not make the squad. Pretty simple.

by sportsczy Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:43 pm

Ok... I'll bite. Who are the starting forwards for Germany and who are you going to bring in who can make magic off the bench when you need it (and you will need it eventually). There was Goetze, Schurrle, etc. last time around. Who will it be this time?

by urbaNRoots Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:53 pm

sportsczy wrote:Ok... I'll bite. Who are the starting forwards for Germany and who are you going to bring in who can make magic off the bench when you need it (and you will need it eventually). There was Goetze, Schurrle, etc. last time around. Who will it be this time?

The starting forwards are Reus, Werner, Müller.

From the bench there are Draxler, Gomez, Gündogan, Brandt who can provide change.

by sportsczy Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:01 pm

Draxler isn't a spark in terms of scoring.... if you watch PSG, you would know that. That's why they moved him to CM mid-season. He's just a bit too slow to be a winger and isn't a central striker.

Gundogan has been a headless chicken at City mostly. Strange player. Great technique but poor decision-making. And again, he's a CM.

Gomes is 150 years old.

Brandt has never scored 10 league goals in a season... and his high is 12 all comps.

Sane had 14 goals and 17 assists this season.

How many CMs does Germany need btw?

Not saying Sane is the savior or anything... but that front line is putrid. I hate to say it... but I think Germany is going to have a lot of problems on the attack. Reus and Mueller need to find their WC form which they haven't had for 2 years.

There are no perfect team in this WC anyhow... so there's that.

by urbaNRoots Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:20 pm

sportsczy wrote:Draxler isn't a spark in terms of scoring.... if you watch PSG, you would know that. That's why they moved him to CM mid-season. He's just a bit too slow to be a winger and isn't a central striker.

Gundogan has been a headless chicken at City mostly. Strange player. Great technique but poor decision-making. And again, he's a CM.

Gomes is 150 years old.

Brandt has never scored 10 league goals in a season... and his high is 12 all comps.

Sane had 14 goals and 17 assists this season.

How many CMs does Germany need btw?

Not saying Sane is the savior or anything... but that front line is putrid. I hate to say it... but I think Germany is going to have a lot of problems on the attack. Reus and Mueller need to find their WC form which they haven't had for 2 years.

There are no perfect team in this WC anyhow... so there's that.

Again with the club level nonsense, none of it matters. Sane could‘ve score a hundred goals for City and it wouldn‘t have mattered when he can‘t do it with Germany, especially with limited play time.

Same with Draxler, I don‘t know what PSG do with him and quite frankly don‘t care. What I do know is that Draxler tends to play very well from that left side for Germany, and he can score very well.

I‘ve said it before but the attack will not be a problem, not when you have the likes of Özil, Kroos, Gündogan supporting you. The biggest problem Germany have is with the defence, especially the central defence and GK— no matter the names, I‘ve seen the games and they continue struggling and have been struggling for a while now. Without Hummels, Boateng and Neuer at their best, I don‘t see much hope when (I guess, if) we reach the semifinal.

by sportsczy Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:31 pm

I completely disagree urbie.... it will be a problem. You need scorers to score and they need to be mostly in form (with maybe an exception; but not all of them).

by urbaNRoots Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:39 pm

This squad is not short of goalscorers, Reus, Werner, Müller all capable of scoring goals, Draxler/Gomez from the bench. I don‘t know where you get the idea that this team lacks goalscorers. You don‘t need specialists when you have a strong midfield, which is probably what confuses people.

by sportsczy Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:56 pm

Reus... 7 goals all comps this season
Mueller.. 15 goals
Werner... 21 goals

Strong midfield means nothing if there's nobody that can finish. As a Real Madrid fan, we know this very well. Modric/Kroos/Casemiro were great to start the season... but we had no scorers with CR, Benzema and Bale all out of form. We couldn't score as a result. Only when CR became an alpha scorer once again did we string results together.

Nothing confusing about it. This Germany basically looks like Spain did once Villa and Torres were no longer there... a lot of good midfield play with very little final product since there were no scorers. In fact, Spain still has the same problem if Costa isn't ticking.

by urbaNRoots Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:31 pm

7 goals in the 14 games he played. Great numbers for Müller and Werner as well, it‘s not a problem at all but if you want to believe that then go on.

Thankfully the World Cup is not far away and this debate will be settled soon.

by Firenze Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:03 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
zigra wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Not when he didn't perform against Madrid.

Which let's be honest is the only games that mattered, performing against FC Leverburgender doesn't mean anything.

Meanwhile over the last 4 months Sane managed to impress against the mighty Brigton, West Ham, Everton and Arsenal. Powerful.

Brighton would finish 3rd in Germany let's be honest.

@Firenze

Pure nonsense. Only Bayern are above them. They'd finish a comfortable second.

Anyway, Sane has been one of the top 5 players this season in the PL. It's like us not taking Kane because he's been pretty shit the last few months in the PL. Even if he hasn't performed very well in the few games he's played for the NT, he's still quality and would be a solid bench choice. IDC though, glad to see one of Pep's stars snubbed.

by Warrior Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:07 pm

Just glad to see Reus finally playing in a tournament ffs

by Firenze Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:09 pm

wait, why is Mario Gomez still in the NT ffs

Low pls

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:33 pm

Firenze wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
zigra wrote:

Meanwhile over the last 4 months Sane managed to impress against the mighty Brigton, West Ham, Everton and Arsenal. Powerful.

Brighton would finish 3rd in Germany let's be honest.

@Firenze

Pure nonsense. Only Bayern are above them. They'd finish a comfortable second.

Anyway, Sane has been one of the top 5 players this season in the PL. It's like us not taking Kane because he's been pretty shit the last few months in the PL. Even if he hasn't performed very well in the few games he's played for the NT, he's still quality and would be a solid bench choice. IDC though, glad to see one of Pep's stars snubbed.

I thought I'd give respect to the Red Bull lads but you're probably right tbh.

by Hapless_Hans Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:01 am

sportsczy wrote:Reus... 7 goals all comps this season
Mueller.. 15 goals
Werner... 21 goals

Strong midfield means nothing if there's nobody that can finish. As a Real Madrid fan, we know this very well. Modric/Kroos/Casemiro were great to start the season... but we had no scorers with CR, Benzema and Bale all out of form. We couldn't score as a result. Only when CR became an alpha scorer once again did we string results together.

Nothing confusing about it. This Germany basically looks like Spain did once Villa and Torres were no longer there... a lot of good midfield play with very little final product since there were no scorers. In fact, Spain still has the same problem if Costa isn't ticking.

Dude, what are you talking about Laughing

Germany scored 43 goals in the 10 quali game. 43 goals.

How many did France score? 18. That's right. Eighteen. Vs. Forty-three.

Müller was the top goalscorer in each of the last two World Cups.
Sane has not once scored a goal for the Nt.

You guys are something, you live in a world of your own Laughing

by sportsczy Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:30 am

Against powerhouses such as...

San Marino (never been to WC)
Azerbaijan (never been to WC)
Norway (last WC in 1998)
Czech Republic (last WC in 2006)
Northern Ireland (last WC in 1986)

France played the Netherlands, Sweden, Bulgaria, Luxembourg and Belarussia.

And I won't get into how many of your goals were scored against Norway, Azerbaijan and San Marino.

So yeah...

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:42 am

I don't get Muller has been top scorer at the last two WCs either tbh.

One was 4 years ago and the other was 8 years ago, it's absolutely irrelevant to football in 2018.

Sane's performances for City are more relevant than something which happened 4 and 8 years ago.

by Casciavit Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:20 am

Sane doesnt really fit Germany’s system and he’s been given opportunities which he hasn't done much with. I can understand Loew's reasoning.

But he still should have been called up though. He has a different profile compared to the rest of the wingers. Even if he hasn't performed for Germany, he's talented enough that he could've been a useful option to have on the bench.

by Mr Nick09 Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:49 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I don't get Muller has been top scorer at the last two WCs either tbh.

One was 4 years ago and the other was 8 years ago, it's absolutely irrelevant to football in 2018.

Sane's performances for City are more relevant than something which happened 4 and 8 years ago.

of course Muller performances with Germany, even if we think back to 2010, matter. He has not regressed as a player and the core of the team has not changed. These NTs play on habit, and they already have built chemistry with him.

Whereas Sane is the new guy, yes he had a lovely season within Pep's specific tiki taka system, but that doesnt translate to his NT.

there was no way Low would have ever compared both scenarios. and as good as Sane is, he is NOT a show stopper.

by McLewis Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:22 am

Sane's time will come. Muller is mint for Germany. Doesn't matter who he scored against previously. He's proven he can deliver when they need him most. Sane can't say that right now, but I think he will be able to in the future.

by sportsczy Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:49 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I don't get Muller has been top scorer at the last two WCs either tbh.

One was 4 years ago and the other was 8 years ago, it's absolutely irrelevant to football in 2018.

Sane's performances for City are more relevant than something which happened 4 and 8 years ago.
of course Muller performances with Germany, even if we think back to 2010, matter. He has not regressed as a player and the core of the team has not changed. These NTs play on habit, and they already have built chemistry with him.

Whereas Sane is the new guy, yes he had a lovely season within Pep's specific tiki taka system, but that doesnt translate to his NT.

there was no way Low would have ever compared both scenarios. and as good as Sane is, he is NOT a show stopper.

Mueller has absolutely regressed as a player however

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:56 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I don't get Muller has been top scorer at the last two WCs either tbh.

One was 4 years ago and the other was 8 years ago, it's absolutely irrelevant to football in 2018.

Sane's performances for City are more relevant than something which happened 4 and 8 years ago.
of course Muller performances with Germany, even if we think back to 2010, matter. He has not regressed as a player and the core of the team has not changed. These NTs play on habit, and they already have built chemistry with him.

Whereas Sane is the new guy, yes he had a lovely season within Pep's specific tiki taka system, but that doesnt translate to his NT.

there was no way Low would have ever compared both scenarios. and as good as Sane is, he is NOT a show stopper.

This isn't even about Muller tbh.

I agree he should go, that's not within question. I was more questioning the logic of Muller scored goals in the WC 4 years ago and 8 years ago.

It's absolutely irrelevant to football in 2018.

Logic like this is how national teams fail.

by BarcaLearning Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:42 pm

sportsczy wrote:Reus... 7 goals all comps this season
Mueller.. 15 goals
Werner... 21 goals

Strong midfield means nothing if there's nobody that can finish. As a Real Madrid fan, we know this very well. Modric/Kroos/Casemiro were great to start the season... but we had no scorers with CR, Benzema and Bale all out of form. We couldn't score as a result. Only when CR became an alpha scorer once again did we string results together.

Nothing confusing about it. This Germany basically looks like Spain did once Villa and Torres were no longer there... a lot of good midfield play with very little final product since there were no scorers. In fact, Spain still has the same problem if Costa isn't ticking.

I agree with the no scorers problem, and I thought exactly that at the last WC though, but they still won it, and this has always been the Germany style in the years past I think?

The last WC they used Klose who did some, but he was more of a presence, and goals from Muller and others, or set pieces... often a WC can be won be emphasis on defense more than scoring goals, which isnt entertaining, but results is what matters in the end to winning. Just saying. Im not sure but this Germany despite so many talents, just doesnt feel that complete, but still probably the main favourite when comparing all the teams.

by sportsczy Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:43 pm

Mueller was an elite scorer in 2014... and Klose was still pretty decent to help him out. Problem is they don't have a prime Mueller that the defense needs to focus on this time around.

France won the WC in 1998 with basically no proven scorer... but we had an all time defense that allowed literally zero goals. You also had a transcendent player in Zidane that showed up huge in the Final. I don't see that great defense and a transcendent player in this squad.

Still a very good squad that deserves to be part of the favorites. But it's not THE favorite by any stretch.

by rincon Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:38 pm

Imagine debating this much about a player that has scored 0 goals for germany

GL :bow:

by sportsczy Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:44 pm

Papin had zero goals in 1986 too for France going into the WC as I recall. Thierry Henry had 1 I believe going into WC 1998. I think Trezeguet was sitting on 1 or 2 goals as well going into WC 1998 (maybe even zero lol).

Sometimes, you need to pick young talent over immediate results because of what they can possibly bring. Low decided against that. His choice.

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