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Post by lucianomoggi on July 27th 2016, 00:00

so because someone cannot prove it wrong has to run away, or insult, sure that is what people do,

if I would say Xavi could not score goals well I cannot say that because he did, and there is evidence to show good he was or other CM players out there, but there is no evidence, no proof which tells Marchisio is a good player

1. he cannot score goals or assits
2. he can easy be outsmarted when defending and is not like wins the ball back so often
3. he is no leader of the game

just like a player lost in a midfield who don't know what to do,

I don't understand now why someone feel insulted if I say that, same things have been said for Hernanes, so whats the problem if I say that about Marchisio?

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Post by Luca on July 27th 2016, 00:22

Marchisio could play in a wheelchair and influence the game better than Hernanes could right now.
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Post by rincon on July 27th 2016, 00:25

How can someone be so wrong about players they watch regularly?
Mindblowingly wrong. I can't even... :facepalm:
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Post by lucianomoggi on July 27th 2016, 00:28

show me how? I am pleased to learn

goals not
assists not
wins the ball back? sometimes
long balls? not really he is no Pirlo, Bekham kind of player
tiki-taka? not really he is no Xavi, kind of player


so how does he? show me what is that magic behind him that I cannot recognize?

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Post by Tomwin Lannister on July 27th 2016, 00:30

You ever seen a successful argument pulled off against a religious zealot? Me neither. This is the same thing.

The best you can hope for is to shut them down so I can't be arsed with it any more rofl


It's like trying to explain to somebody WHY 1+1 = 2. And when you walk them through it, they turn around and tell you that they still don't think you're correct.

Banter.

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Post by lucianomoggi on July 27th 2016, 00:34

what do you mean you cannot argument religion you sure can argument there is evidence you can show, and cannot be denied is a fact, is no imagination,

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Post by Tomwin Lannister on July 27th 2016, 00:37

Wrong. Die hard Religious folk have been shown evidence of things such as the true 'age' of the World. But they see the evidence and will still tell you that you're wrong.

Just like if I gathered every manager in World football together, asked them which player out of Marchisio/HERNANES they would take and why, they'd all say more or less the same thing and you'd still ask WHY

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Post by Warrior on July 27th 2016, 00:41

So Buffon is shit ?

Never scored a goal.
Decent long balls yet very few assists.
Never wins the ball back.
Is not as good passer as Xavi.

Might as well get rid of him !
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Post by lucianomoggi on July 27th 2016, 00:51

people can believe whatsoever they want but when something on discussion and you bring proof on the table it cannot be denied, you have proof about it

I read comments telling why 100 million for HIGUAIN. well maybe because his 36 goals? isn't that good enough evidence for someone who is willing to be open minded,

I ask you one simple question, what is so special about Marchisio that I cannot recognize, I am being honest

I believe Hernanes is better than Marchisio, I may be wrong there may be something I cannot recognize but if there a proof about it or we just choose to believe one is better than another just because he is italian


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Post by Luca on July 27th 2016, 00:52

@lucianomoggi wrote:what do you mean you cannot argument religion you sure can argument there is evidence you can show, and cannot be denied is a fact, is no imagination,  


I'll try luciano, just know this forum is all for fun discussion. I hope you don't take any of this personally because I truthfully think you're the man, homie.

Hernanes is living off the hype of yesterday. He was once a top midfielder in Serie A, he is no longer anywhere near that player. He used to have the flash, the power, the energy and the end product, now he doesn't. Now, he is a broken down pensioner to be honest, he is stealing a roster spot and offers nothing offensively or defensively. I'm very sorry to you because I know you're a fan, but he scored once last year, it was a failed project and I was actually borderline optimistic when he was signed. It had all the makings of a Marotta deal but it doesn't always work out that way.

Marchisio is a leader. Juventus in the 12 games to start the season without him and Khedira had 12 points (if I recall correctly), once they both returned, we went on a historic run. Do you really believe this is a coincidence? Marchisio is the midfield. He does all of the things that are unnoticed. He covers the space, he wins the ball, he starts the attack. He played in the holding role this season and he did an excellent job. He is one of the pillars of this team. He is the prince of Torino, he is everything that embodies Juventus. He's a true professional, a future captain and member of the Juventus board in some way. He's a legend.

I believe this is an argument of flash vs. class.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister on July 27th 2016, 00:54

Let's see.

He's 10x better under pressure. He distributes the ball better. He's positionally much, much better and does a better job defensively be it interceptions or tackles. He helps organise the midfield. His understanding with the team and the coach is clearly superior. His work rate is superior and he doesn't try to take 3 players on in a stupid position where there's a high risk low reward scenario going on.

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Post by Andrew on July 27th 2016, 01:02

Spoiler:
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Post by juve_gigi on July 27th 2016, 01:24

@lucianomoggi wrote:show me how? I am pleased to learn

goals not
assists not
wins the ball back? sometimes
long balls? not really he is no Pirlo, Bekham kind of player
tiki-taka? not really he is no Xavi, kind of player


so how does he? show me what is that magic behind him that I cannot recognize?


Serie A career goals:

HERNANES - 41
Marchisio - 37

HERNANES played his whole career as a CAM up until this year and Marchisio as a CM and DM and they almost have scored the same amount of goals...

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Post by lucianomoggi on July 27th 2016, 01:43

I read your comments I don't ignore something I just cannot replaay everything but to keep it short

1. you cannot say Buffon is a sh*t, for someone who cares about really knowing there is evidence that Buffon is no Sh*t, his charisma, his saves, and more,
he is one of the nominated for the best player in the world how can someone say is a sh*t? you can't

2. Marchisio I believe has good qualities, he is trustworthy player, I trust him as much as a champion like EVRA, ALVES, LAHM and those trustworthy playersI also believe he does everything that has been said, but thats it, it doesn;'t make him one of the top 5 CM , Pogba is there, INIESTA is there not Marchisio, Khedira, Hernanes they are second level players really good ones but not capable to be nominated for the best player like BUFFON, POGBA, PIRLO, VIDAL

but you cannot have all best in the starting XI, is good to have some of them that is good enough PJANIC will be one of the best CM, I can predict on that, Pjanic can be on the level of INIESTA, POGBA, the TOP 5 CM players he sure has lots of qualities, Higuain is already one of most important players like SUAREZ

you cannot say BUFFON is a SH*T he is nominated for one of the BEST PLAYERS


3. I believe HERNANES is a second level player, it belongs somewhere on the level of HONDA, he is no top player , but isn't that good enough to keep him on the bench? I believe yes starting XI maybe not, but for the bench he sure is worth it unless his wages are serious problem as you have said, that is not my concern I don't deal with the money if that is the case than he should leave, but I don't think Juventus is so desperate to sell a player because his wage is 3 million when other UCL TOP teams have players with 10 million wages in the bench , you don't count the pennies when you go UCL you need some trustworthy players instead of PADOIN who earn less but you cant trust them UCL

but hey lets make this simple: I no longer defend HERNANES until he shows something worth to be defended; goals, assists, ( best player of the week ) something like that, cam nromg me back to defending him, till then I surrender on this one, I let it as you win, but if he brings something that I am talking about, you should also be open minded and see it, because HERNANES had some really good games last season, his rating was 7, 8 ( Excellent ) from a websites that I followed and you cannot ignore stuff like that and keep telling he is worthless that is not fair,


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Post by lucianomoggi on July 27th 2016, 01:45

@juve_gigi wrote:
@lucianomoggi wrote:show me how? I am pleased to learn

goals not
assists not
wins the ball back? sometimes
long balls? not really he is no Pirlo, Bekham kind of player
tiki-taka? not really he is no Xavi, kind of player


so how does he? show me what is that magic behind him that I cannot recognize?


Serie A career goals:

HERNANES - 41
Marchisio - 37

HERNANES played his whole career as a CAM up until this year and Marchisio as a CM and DM and they almost have scored the same amount of goals...


Marchisio played SS few games, didn't work
Marchisio played AM few games didn't work, coach than decided to use VIDAL more advanced

it is not Hernanes problem why he could not play SS, AM ,


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Post by salmano9 on July 27th 2016, 02:37

@lucianomoggi wrote:
@juve_gigi wrote:
@lucianomoggi wrote:show me how? I am pleased to learn

goals not
assists not
wins the ball back? sometimes
long balls? not really he is no Pirlo, Bekham kind of player
tiki-taka? not really he is no Xavi, kind of player


so how does he? show me what is that magic behind him that I cannot recognize?


Serie A career goals:

HERNANES - 41
Marchisio - 37

HERNANES played his whole career as a CAM up until this year and Marchisio as a CM and DM and they almost have scored the same amount of goals...


Marchisio played SS few games, didn't work
Marchisio played AM few games didn't work, coach than decided to use VIDAL more advanced

it is not Hernanes problem why he could not play SS, AM ,


Hernanes was useless this season. He had no impact in our season except for a useless goal (which wasn't important) and cost us some of the games he played (ex. Leverkuson).
If I had to choose any of the players to sell from the midfield, the first one who comes to mind is HERNANES. Really, how could you say that Hernanes IS better than Marchisio? Marchisio is the leader in the middle.

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Post by DeviAngel on July 27th 2016, 02:38

Please keep in mind.


Regarding our squad players size(restricted to 25 over 21yrs):

We're currently on 28 players in the squad:

-3 needs to go.
-every new arrival of an over 21yrs should be backed by selling someone else.
-Gabigol is U-21 and there is no limit on U-21 so he can join us no matter what.


1.HG- Marchisio
2.HG -Audero(U-21)
3.HG- Romagna(U-21)
4.HG- Macek(U-21)/Marrone

Mandragora if stays (U-21)*
Gabigol if signed (U-21)*

+21 players on top of that:

GK : 5.Buffon, 6.Neto

DF : 7.Barzagli, 8.Bonucci, 9.Chiellini, 10.Rugani, 11.Benatia, 12.Evra, 13.Licht, 14.Alves, 15.Sandro

MID : 16.Pogba/CM, 17.Pjanic, 18.Khedira, 19.Sturaro, 20.Pjaca, 21.Asamoah, 22.Hernanes, 23.Lemina, 24.Pereyra

ATT : 25.Dybala, 26.Higuain, 27.Mandzukic, 28.Zaza

*(U-21) can be added as much as you want.


So probably: Zaza,Pereyra,Hernanes/Lemina - the 3 to go.
If Pogba sold -> replacement signed.
If we want another CM/DM -> another player has to go.

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Post by juve_gigi on July 27th 2016, 03:11

@lucianomoggi wrote:
@juve_gigi wrote:
@lucianomoggi wrote:show me how? I am pleased to learn

goals not
assists not
wins the ball back? sometimes
long balls? not really he is no Pirlo, Bekham kind of player
tiki-taka? not really he is no Xavi, kind of player


so how does he? show me what is that magic behind him that I cannot recognize?


Serie A career goals:

HERNANES - 41
Marchisio - 37

HERNANES played his whole career as a CAM up until this year and Marchisio as a CM and DM and they almost have scored the same amount of goals...  


Marchisio played SS few games, didn't work
Marchisio played AM few games didn't work, coach than decided to use VIDAL more advanced

it is not Hernanes problem why he could not play SS, AM ,


You missed my point. My point is Marchisio is a CM or a regista, not a CAM or an SS. Hernanes played his whole career as a CAM and yet only scored 4 more goals than Marchisio over the last 6 years. That tells me that Marchisio can score goals better than Hernanes, because he is doing so playing in more defensive positions. Understood?  

You said Marchisio can't score goals but he has scored almost as many as Hernanes playing in more defensive positions. So that means Hernanes really is the poor goal scorer, not Marchisio.

Also if Hernanes is the better player why does Marchisio when healthy play in the starting XI and Hernanes doesn't? Does Allegri not know what he is doing? How many games did Hernanes start last year versus Marchisio? When everyone is healthy Marchisio is a starter and Hernanes is a bench warmer. Why is that if Hernanes is the better player?

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Post by DeviAngel on July 27th 2016, 03:55

Marchisio can't score Laughing

The first season under Conte he and Vidal were our top scorers ffs rofl

We should be grateful we have such player

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Post by Warrior on July 27th 2016, 05:31

@DeviAngel wrote:Please keep in mind.


Regarding our squad players size(restricted to 25 over 21yrs):

We're currently on 28 players in the squad:

-3 needs to go.
-every new arrival of an over 21yrs should be backed by selling someone else.
-Gabigol is U-21 and there is no limit on U-21 so he can join us no matter what.


1.HG- Marchisio
2.HG -Audero(U-21)
3.HG- Romagna(U-21)
4.HG- Macek(U-21)/Marrone

Mandragora if stays (U-21)*
Gabigol if signed (U-21)*

+21 players on top of that:

GK : 5.Buffon, 6.Neto

DF : 7.Barzagli, 8.Bonucci, 9.Chiellini, 10.Rugani, 11.Benatia, 12.Evra, 13.Licht, 14.Alves, 15.Sandro

MID : 16.Pogba/CM, 17.Pjanic, 18.Khedira, 19.Sturaro, 20.Pjaca, 21.Asamoah, 22.Hernanes, 23.Lemina, 24.Pereyra

ATT : 25.Dybala, 26.Higuain, 27.Mandzukic, 28.Zaza

*(U-21) can be added as much as you want.


So probably: Zaza,Pereyra,Hernanes/Lemina - the 3 to go.
If Pogba sold -> replacement signed.
If we want another CM/DM -> another player has to go.




I'm a bit confused. Home grown players u21 take a spot on the 25 man list ?

Maybe i'm wrong but i count 26 "regular" players (including Marrone and Pjaca) + 5 u21... Which means we only need to sell one, isn't it ?
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Post by juve_gigi on July 27th 2016, 07:39

Santos accept €20m Juventus bid for Gabigol...

The Brazilian side's president Modesto Roma says they have notified the player's agent and parents of the offer, but the transfer is set to be a complicated one

Santos have confirmed they have accepted a bid of €20 million from Juventus for Gabriel Barbosa.

The highly rated 19-year-old, nicknamed 'Gabigol', has been linked with some of Europe's top clubs, with Paris Saint-Germain, Borussia Dortmund and Chelsea all credited with an interest, but Spanish champions Barcelona are said to have first refusal.

Despite the seemingly imminent arrival of Gonzalo Higuain from Napoli, Juve have made a move for the attacker, who must now make a decision on the offer before the deal can progress any further, according to club president Modesto Roma.

"We sent a letter to Wagner [Ribeiro, Gabriel's agent], Valdemir and Lindalva [his parents] with the terms," he told Globo Esporte.

"Santos are now waiting for their position. If they think it's interesting, then we'll go to the next step, including informing Barcelona."

Even if the forward accepts the proposal Barcelona will still have the final word on the deal as they can outbid other suitors to sign the player due to a first refusal agreement when they signed former Gabigol's teammate Neymar from Santos.

Barca could be tempted to match Juve's offer, with Luis Enrique eager to sign a striker before the start of the season, but any negotiations to sign the Brazil international outright would be further complicated by his registration.

Santos are reported to own 40 per cent of the player, while Gabriel and his family own a further 40 per cent, with funding group Doyen Sports controlling the remaining 20 per cent.

It is suggested the teenager, who has scored five goals in 10 appearances in the Campeonato Brasileiro so far this season and will represent Brazil at Rio 2016, would need to relinquish his share of his registration in order to facilitate a transfer.

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Post by sportsczy on July 27th 2016, 08:14

For all of Marchisio's talents... and he is a very good player...  scoring is not one of them.  He may have had a fluke season where he scored well.  But he's really pretty clumsy other than long distance shots.  You don't want him as a AM.  It's a waste.  Why take an excellent passing CM with a good long shot and put him further up where he has more troubles?

It's the opposite of what Madrid does btw... we take AMs who are superb in the final 1/3 and try to make them play lower Laughing  Juve aren't as stupid as we are.

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Post by juve_gigi on July 27th 2016, 08:40

Chelsea, Conte: “Matic is a fundamental player in my system, he knows this too”...

Juventus really like Nemanja Matic of Chelsea, as a possible Paul Pogba replacement.Antonio Conte spoke about the Juventus target today:

"Matic is an important player , he is fundamental for my formation. In my squad, to have a player with his characteristics is crucial and he knows this too. I have many options in the midfield but I am happy that I have this problem". For Conte, the player is not on the market....

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Post by juve_gigi on July 27th 2016, 08:46

West Ham transfer news: Hammers working on deal for Juventus striker Simone Zaza...

West Ham are working on a deal for Juventus striker Simone Zaza, according to reports in Italy.

The Hammers are desperate to land a new forward this summer but they have so far failed in their attempts.

The club have been rejected by Lyon star Alexandre Lacazette, while a deal for AC Milan hitman Carlos Bacca is still yet to materialise.

And so, according to Tuttosport, West Ham are now trying to complete a swoop for Zaza.

The 25-year-old is ready to leave Juventus this summer after making just 19 Serie A appearances last season.

As well as the Hammers, Milan, Napoli and Wolfsburg are all interested - but no club is yet to make a formal offer.

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Post by juve_gigi on July 27th 2016, 08:56

Bonucci ‘to sign new Juve deal and hand PL trio a £50m snub’...

A trio of Premier League clubs look set to face disappointment in their hopes of signing Leonardo Bonucci, amid reports he is on the brink of extending his contract with Juventus.

The Italy defender has been linked with a £50million move to the Premier League this summer, with both Chelsea and Manchester City keen. It appeared Pep Guardiola’s side had, however, moved into pole position to sign Bonucci, having had a €60million deal accepted by Juventus last week.

And amid reports on Tuesday morning that Manchester United were poised to launch a bid of their own for the centre-half, 29, it appeared the demand for Bonucci was set to reach fever pitch.

Bonucci was reported to be using a holiday in the Balearic island of Formentera to consider a potential move, with Juventus leaving it up to the player about whether he fancied a move to the Premier League.

However, Italian daily Tuttosport claim Bonucci has now decided to stay in Turin and pledge his loyalty to the Old Lady.

The paper claims Bonucci is poised to sign a new and improved contract with the Serie A champions and will be handed a new deal worth €4.5million a year, plus bonuses.

The report adds that Bonucci, regarded as one of the world’s best central defenders, has ambitions to win the Champions League but feels he stands a far better chance at Juve than he would at any of Manchester City, Manchester United or Chelsea.

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Post by juve_gigi on July 27th 2016, 08:57

"The report adds that Bonucci, regarded as one of the world’s best central defenders, has ambitions to win the Champions League but feels he stands a far better chance at Juve than he would at any of Manchester City, Manchester United or Chelsea."

:coffee:

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