The Official WWE Thread - Part 25

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Post by Onyx Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:01 pm

Yeh that is a smark crowd, but he was over with the casual audience from September 2014 to WM 2015. A consistent reaction on a weekly basis from both crowds.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:02 pm

@Onyx wrote:Well he's great on the mic, charismatic and can play many different characters. His skillset is perfectly suited for the main event. But of course nowadays it's all about da look or ringwork, so he's cast aside.


Kevin Owens is great on the mic and as charismatic as anyone but according to you he doesn't have a character and shouldn't be main event.

Besides being charismatic and good on the mic has never been enough to be main event, there's millions of examples of guys even in the eras you like who were charismatic and great on the mic who were never main event.

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Post by Onyx Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:04 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Don't see what else he gives tbh Laughing

He's hilarious and i do find him funny but that's all it is, Big E is shit tonnes more entertaining than Reigns as well but that doesn't mean he should be main event.

The Godfather was as over as anyone in the Attitude era but that doesn't mean he should be pushed beyond Taker lol.

I will agree with one thing though, he should be on the show but main event? nahhhhhh.


But the godfather was over in an era where the product itself was over. Nowadays he'd get a generic reaction. Now here you have Sandow, where the product is at an all time low, getting main event level reactions as a jobber on a pre show.

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Post by Onyx Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:07 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Onyx wrote:Well he's great on the mic, charismatic and can play many different characters. His skillset is perfectly suited for the main event. But of course nowadays it's all about da look or ringwork, so he's cast aside.


Kevin Owens is great on the mic and as charismatic as anyone but according to you he doesn't have a character and shouldn't be main event.

Besides being charismatic and good on the mic has never been enough to be main event, there's millions of examples of guys even in the eras you like who were charismatic and great on the mic who were never main event.



Owens isn't over though and doesn't really have a character.

Sandow on the other hand:

Over as hell
Mic skills
Character
Charisma

What more could someone possibly need to warrant a main event push? Laughing

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:10 pm

Don't know why we are still having arguments over this anyway, it's about being a draw and always has been.

You make money for the company and you get pushed, that's how it works. Sandow never has been a guy who is a draw.

People don't come to watch Sandow, you have to deal with that. As i said i think he should be on the show because he's funny and charismatic but there is zero to suggest why he should be main event.

All the guys in the main event picture are draws and make money for the company ( including Reigns despite the negative crowd reactions )
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Post by Onyx Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:15 pm

A midcarder being a draw? Only main eventers are judged on being draws. Midcarders get over, get a push, become main eventers. Then you judge their drawing levels. They are midcarders for a reason, because they aren't the go to guys who the company rely on. At least up and coming midcarders that is.

I highly doubt Bryan was a draw before he become an established main eventer. He was just a super over tag team wrestler.

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Post by Jay29 Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:20 pm

For me, back during his Mizdow stint Sandow was over in the same way The New Day is over now. Nobody from The New Day is going to get a main event push because on their own they aren't as good as they are together. It's the same with Sandow. On his own nobody cared enough about him to warrant a push. With the Miz he was funny and people liked him. Great, give him more segments so he can entertain the crowd. But after that, what does he do? What does he fall back on? His intellectual saviour gimmick was a dud. And the moment you give him a new gimmick he has to get that over with the crowd as well; he can't rely on his comedy routine with Miz.

By all means, bring him back and let him entertain in the mid-card. Maybe give him a US or IC title run. Put him in a stable and let him do comedy. But the idea that all you need for a main event push is charisma and good mic skills is silly

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:23 pm

That hasn't stopped the likes of Owens or Zayn selling merch at a higher pace than most, whether they are main event or mid card is irrelevant.

They sell tickets or merch and they are a draw, Sandow has never been that guy despite the reactions he gets. Barrett was during his Nexus days and to a lesser disagree Bad News Barrett gimmick.

Not sure what's really hard to understand about it all, getting crowd reactions matter but it means nothing if you are not making the company money.
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Post by Onyx Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:34 pm

@Jay29 wrote:For me, back during his Mizdow stint Sandow was over in the same way The New Day is over now. Nobody from The New Day is going to get a main event push because on their own they aren't as good as they are together. It's the same with Sandow. On his own nobody cared enough about him to warrant a push. With the Miz he was funny and people liked him. Great, give him more segments so he can entertain the crowd. But after that, what does he do? What does he fall back on? His intellectual saviour gimmick was a dud. And the moment you give him a new gimmick he has to get that over with the crowd as well; he can't rely on his comedy routine with Miz.

By all means, bring him back and let him entertain in the mid-card. Maybe give him a US or IC title run. Put him in a stable and let him do comedy. But the idea that all you need for a main event push is charisma and good mic skills is silly


Well Sandow's still getting reactions on his own right now. Bryan got over with Kane, it didn't stop him becoming even more over when they split.

And Sandow doesn't need to fall back on anything. Nobody even has a character nowadays in the main event scene. He can just be himself + mic skills, which is better than Reigns who basically has nothing. Plus I'm sure he'd use the intellectual saviour character but tone it down and adapt it to the main event. He can play many different characters and he's one of the best actors in the WWE. Much better than a lot of the top guys nowadays.

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Post by Onyx Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:39 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:That hasn't stopped the likes of Owens or Zayn selling merch at a higher pace than most, whether they are main event or mid card is irrelevant.

They sell tickets or merch and they are a draw, Sandow has never been that guy despite the reactions he gets. Barrett was during his Nexus days and to a lesser disagree Bad News Barrett gimmick.

Not sure what's really hard to understand about it all, getting crowd reactions matter but it means nothing if you are not making the company money.


Well I'd like to see a site where it clearly shows who sells what before I believe anything. Being insanely over for a number of months is enough to warrant a push. Wasn't Ryder selling a ton of merch in his prime? He was over and selling merch, yet still got buried. It's all down to WWE at the end of the day.

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Post by Firenze Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:48 pm

Ryder should be salty as seawater over how he got buried. Got himself over through hard work, was moving a ton of merch during his prime and getting insane pops. Remember when Cena rode his coattails ffs? remember him acting like he was a massive fan of Ryder and that he wanted to work with him to do HIM a favor. Swear I didn't see Ryder on TV for 2+ years at one point. Where was good lad Cena to help out his friend then. Cena is a POS. FYI I don't even like Ryder and think he's corny tbh.
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Post by Kaladin Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:02 pm

Barrett is cringey, good thing he's leaving
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Post by Onyx Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:13 pm

He was good as the Nexus leader and BNB, but yeh, he's dropped off since then. Should have held the World title at least once, considering he's far better than 50 time champions Del Rio/Sheamus.

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Post by Kaladin Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:18 pm

'Dark segment' from Smackdown

Spoiler:
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Post by Onyx Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:19 pm

Barrett was actually scheduled to win the 2011 Smackdown MITB according to Bryan. But on the last day they decided they didn't want 2 heels winning both MITBs (Del Rio being the other winner), so they went with Bryan instead.

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Post by Onyx Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:24 pm

Jericho ffs, goat heel. :bow:

Hope the IWC turn on Styles now that he shook hands with public enemy no1. hmm

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Post by M99 Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:50 pm

Just repeating Owens does not have a character does not make it reality. He does have a character, he is  a prizefighter, a selfish douchebag. He is entertaining on the ring and on the mic. And as a heel, he is quite over. He can take the mic and make any crowd boo him.





These segments are an example on how entertaining he can be.
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Post by Onyx Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:06 pm

I think we discussed Owens' lack of character before. The question was, 'what exactly is a prize fighter'? What exactly does Owens do to be a prize fighter? It's just a label.

A prizefighter technically is a boxer. Does he box? No. Ok does he fight for money? No. He's there every week. Lesnar on the other hand fits the label much better. He shows up for matches whenever he wants purely for the money.

Russo explained it perfectly a few months ago.

"When we first see Kevin Owens, who is he? A sumo wrestler, a freak. The last 24 hours on Twitter, Kevin Owens' fans have said he's a bad ass, a bully and a prize fighter. So right there we have a problem. His own fans are giving us three different descriptions of who this man is. Bad Ass-- two weeks ago I watched as Kevin Owens stood in the middle of the ring, got a Coke and popcorn and thrown in his face. Dean Ambrose walked away and there were no ramifications. That's not a bad ass. Take that off the list. My understanding of a bully is, is someone that picks on someone not his own size, people he could take advantage of. Kevin Owens out the chute went after John Cena. We can take that off the list. What on Earth has Kevin Owens done in his character that is a prizefighter?

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Post by M99 Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:16 pm

Prizefighter doesn't exclusively mean boxer lol. He is a guy sho is a selfish dick, he is here for just success and titles, and he plays the role brilliantly.
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Post by Onyx Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:28 pm

Pretty sure everyone in the WWE is there for success and titles. Prizefighter has a very specific meaning and even in a vague sense Owens hasn't done anything to show he is one.

All I see is a generic heel with good mic skills. Basically a better, less cowardly version of Rollins.

Of course like I said before, in today's climate where Reigns is the benchmark, he's good enough to main event.

But for me personally, he's too generic and lacks uniqueness. That's just me though and I really can't see my view of him changing. Unless he suddenly gets super over, in which case yes, he should get a main event push.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:49 pm

@M99 wrote:Prizefighter doesn't exclusively mean boxer lol. He is a guy sho is a selfish dick, he is here for just success and titles, and he plays the role brilliantly.


Also that he fights for his family( that's quite a big part of his character tbh), which plays into his dickish heel role tbh as the best heels are ones who make you believe that they actually have a reason for all the dickish things they do.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:12 pm



Another example of how good their editing/promo guys are they probably don't get paid enough tbh. Laughing
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Post by Onyx Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:10 am

Scrubs booing the goat Elias Samson. Then they have the cheek to start a 'we want wrestling' chant. hmm


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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:30 am

Saw that lol, show was mainly a recap show though. hmm
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:34 pm

http://m.imgur.com/jugD4lJ

He's such a tease Laughing
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Post by Onyx Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:37 pm

Punk now a writer for Marvel. hmm


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