Re: Brexit: Should the UK stay or go?

by Tomwin Lannister Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:55 pm

Even if I was massively pro EU (Which I would have been if we had the ability to actually push for changes without getting shut down) I'd still be careful about all of this bullshit about a '2nd referendum' or *Insert high profile figure here* blocking the decision

Democracy has it's flaws but if you set the precedent now that democracy only counts when it leads to a pre-determined answer and the people in power can overrule democracy because YOLO then it won't be long before we're all voting on something like human rights and oh wait, what's that? The PM is saying our votes don't matter and he doesn't care?

What I would say, if imo for pulling out of something you should perhaps need a larger majority in the future. Closer to 60%.

by Unique Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:56 pm

VendettaRed07 wrote:It's unbelievable there's no ability to block, veto or filibuster the decision to allow a referendum on an issue this massive and complex, to go through on a vote of a simple majority, by a party who won on only 37% of the vote, from the other partys and elected officials all across the country.

This should never have been put up to a vote.

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:56 pm

Unique wrote:
ES wrote:Can't the Queen like override this decision
no. in years gone by the queen would behead the traitors that gave the country away in the first place.

What about the traitors that are giving away Scotland and Northern Ireland? scratch

by Unique Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:58 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Even if I was massively pro EU (Which I would have been if we had the ability to actually push for changes without getting shut down) I'd still be careful about all of this bullshit about a '2nd referendum' or *Insert high profile figure here* blocking the decision

Democracy has it's flaws but if you set the precedent now that democracy only counts when it leads to a pre-determined answer and the people in power can overrule democracy because YOLO then it won't be long before we're all voting on something like human rights and oh wait, what's that? The PM is saying our votes don't matter and he doesn't care?

What I would say, if imo for pulling out of something you should perhaps need a larger majority in the future. Closer to 60%.

if you watch that vid I put up just now its interesting to see how the swiss do things.

by Unique Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:00 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Unique wrote:
ES wrote:Can't the Queen like override this decision
no. in years gone by the queen would behead the traitors that gave the country away in the first place.
What about the traitors that are giving away Scotland and Northern Ireland?

she would behead them aswel Thumbs up

by zigra Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:01 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Even if I was massively pro EU (Which I would have been if we had the ability to actually push for changes without getting shut down) I'd still be careful about all of this bullshit about a '2nd referendum' or *Insert high profile figure here* blocking the decision

Democracy has it's flaws but if you set the precedent now that democracy only counts when it leads to a pre-determined answer and the people in power can overrule democracy because YOLO then it won't be long before we're all voting on something like human rights and oh wait, what's that? The PM is saying our votes don't matter and he doesn't care?

What I would say, if imo for pulling out of something you should perhaps need a larger majority in the future. Closer to 60%.

I don't think someone like the queen should block it but I think it's a really bad situation and it's because a simple majority is enough. The problem is that if the leave campaign would have lost 48-52, they would've just gone for another referendum. Farage even said exactly that. However now that it's the other way round there's no way for the other side to turn it around. The people who want to leave could always repeat it, even do it a third time in theory.
That's why imo something like that should never be decided by a simple majority. 2/3 or even 3/4 seem reasonable to me.

by Blue Barrett Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:33 am

Saw this post on reddit. A summary of the disaster.

If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected prime minister.
If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast.
If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the eu market.
If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.
If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.
If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie.
If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants.
If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar.
And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.
Well done, Britain.

by Unique Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:59 am

Blue Barrett wrote:Saw this post on reddit. A summary of the disaster.

If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected prime minister.but we can get rid of him in the next election if we wish to do so.
If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast. not a problem is it. better then anyone turning up on the door step whenever they like
If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the eu market. any company that manufacture anything in this country are doing it because it makes them the most money
If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.the uk grows plenty of fruit and veg. its not like we will starve is it
If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU. they didn't. but as soon as they came to Europe they will be free to come to Britain.
If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie. we know £350mil will not go to the nhs. but any money saved will help it
If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants. the £350mil can help with that plus why do we need young active and skilled migrants to do the same job that non that young active and skilled british people can do
If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar. don't sweat it. it will go back up anyway
And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.
Well done, Britain.
the threat is importing thousends of people into a country that cant cope with the population as it is. if the schools are full. the houses are full and the nhs is on its knees then basic maths tell you adding more people will only make things worst.

by Jonathan28 Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:35 am

I'm just reading the Welsh Government page on the massive benefits that being in the EU has to them and I can't stop laughing at how they've thrown it all away.

http://gov.wales/funding/eu-funds/?lang=en

I've never seen a country shoot themselves in the foot as badly as this. rofl

by Unique Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:46 am

Jonathan28 wrote:I'm just reading the Welsh Government page on the massive benefits that being in the EU has to them and I can't stop laughing at how they've thrown it all away.

http://gov.wales/funding/eu-funds/?lang=en

I've never seen a country shoot themselves in the foot as badly as this.

Through the EU Structural Funds, Wales has benefited from just over £4bn since 2000, supporting business, research and innovation, helping people into work, increasing skills, improving transport and digital networks, regenerating our communities, and enhancing our environment.

how on gods earth did the eu improve them things. what do they research in wales that is only possible by being in the eu. so who in Europe comes to wales and improves their skills. what on gods green earth does the eu do for the environment in wales. rofl

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:55 am

Surely the 500m annually help towards those things? Not sure what's so funny about that, that's a shitton of money

by Unique Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:02 am

this is getting silly now tbh. Britain was giving £350mil per week in benefits to the poor countrys of Europe. our bourders were open to anyone that landed in Europe. and we were told what laws we can and cant enforce.

by Unique Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:06 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Surely the 500m annually help towards those things? Not sure what's so funny about that, that's a shitton of money

the funny thing is that people think the eu are giving wales all these benefits. when infact what Britain gives to eu each week could cover wales 5 times over. we give the eu £350mil per week. they give a bit back to wales and then act like they are putting wales on the map. if that's not funny what is.

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:31 am

Unique wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:Surely the 500m annually help towards those things? Not sure what's so funny about that, that's a shitton of money
the funny thing is that people think the eu are giving wales all these benefits. when infact what Britain gives to eu each week could cover wales 5 times over. we give the eu £350mil per week. they give a bit back to wales and then act like they are putting wales on the map. if that's not funny what is.

So England will be happy to continue supporting Wales then? Smile

Also if that value is correct then how come Farage is now saying it won't be able to go to NHS?

by Jonathan28 Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:58 am

£350 million to the EU rofl

I never thought I actually find someone on GL who actually believed that figure. This country truly is lost.

by rwo power Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:27 am

Unique wrote:what do they research in wales that is only possible by being in the eu. so who in Europe comes to wales and improves their skills. what on gods green earth does the eu do for the environment in wales.

Wales has 8 universities that belong to the Universities UK. They are somewhat worried about the loss of EU funding and already stated "Specifically, the UK Government will need to consider the nature and structure of access to European research funding, consider making good any shortfall in funding, and mitigate the impact on the freedom of movement."

So it looks as if the UK government will have to allocate another amount of the money they save by not paying for the EU to support their Universities so that they will stay competitive.

Somehow I have an impression as if the politicians in charge will find that there are lots of organisations, academies, projects, farmers, towns, structurally weak areas and whatever who need a lot of money to replace what the EU paid for them until now.

And if you want to say "But now we can determine who will get the money!" - I hope for all the formerly supported entities that they will be of interest to the government still...

by Lucifer Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:18 am

From economic point of view it is very dreadful thing for India and whole world that Britain has exit EU. Pound depreciated to lowest of last 32 years. Same with Indian rupee and I think many currencies will be depreciated because in today's world we are tied economically with each other.
It is safe to say that the recovering world economy will be affected negatively for upcoming two years more.

by Lucifer Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:57 am

Art Morte wrote:
Robespierre wrote:David Cameron...

He believed to win and so the referendum had to consolidate his position , but conversely Brexit won ( and so he lost it ) and he was obliged to resign. It will be reminded as the man to have taken away England from EU . A real inept

I don't think the Brexit is on Cameron, if he didn't put it up for vote he would have caught a lot of hate for being anti-democratic about it. Cameron handled this well, imo, it just was 52% of the British people who decided to vote against him and the EU. Time will tell how wise that decision turns out to be. But all in all Cameron has done pretty well as the british prime minister, imo.

Art Morte wrote:
VendettaRed07 wrote:
This should never have been put up to a vote.

I don't know what the Queen would have decided if this was up to her, but a referendum is democracy at its best. However, I do think there should be a new Scottish independence referendum now.

Though it seems like referendum is good for democracy and let people decide what they want is best way, there is one major setback in it, majority of people generally of any country think emotionally instead of having a practical and economic perspective which decisions like this demand.Government on other hand has advisories and specilasist on respective subjects who provide it with the counsel on future impact of such decisions. People have elected you to look after them and take decisions on their behalf, so the actions of Cameron from neutral point of view seem cowardly to say the least. Irony is that in 1975 Margaret Thatcher criticised then PM Wilson for referndum and PM of her party did the same.

by Bellabong Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:38 pm

You wanted out?

then gtfo

http://www.news24.com/World/News/breaking-eu-chiefs-say-britain-must-leave-as-soon-as-possible-20160624

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:20 pm

In addition to the 2nd referendum petition (which already has 1m signatures) theres' now a petition for London to become independent with 100k Laughing

https://www.change.org/p/sadiq-khan-declare-london-independent-from-the-uk-and-apply-to-join-the-eu

by M99 Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:29 pm

Took Nigel Farage just a few hours to go back on his promise.

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:34 pm

by Adit Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:33 pm

I'm not sure people should get to vote for things like economic and international relations. Their ability to comprehend such matters and vote with out their emotional side affecting them is a big doubt.

by DuringTheWar Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:10 pm

1,018,215 scots voted leave. Leave won by 1,269,501. Thanks scots.

by DuringTheWar Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:25 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:In addition to the 2nd referendum petition (which already has 1m signatures) theres' now a petition for London to become independent with 100k

https://www.change.org/p/sadiq-khan-declare-london-independent-from-the-uk-and-apply-to-join-the-eu

Just, lol:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

by rwo power Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:14 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:In addition to the 2nd referendum petition (which already has 1m signatures) theres' now a petition for London to become independent with 100k

Considering the fact that London (Greater London) has a population of 8.5 mio people, this would be an even more populated country than Scotland (5.3 mio people) hmm

by Sponsored content