Barclay's Premier League '15-'16 discussion V8

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:That's true about Lallana, he's wonderful technically but literally does nothing

I would say he's the AM version of Colback but Colback isn't wonderful technically

Fancy on the ball, but he's no better than Downing ffs.

Btw, congrats on signing Jonjo. Be a great signing for your lot, just needs someone to cover him as he's weak defensively. Didn't watch the game against West Ham, but he looked good in the highlights.

I still remember when we shipped off Jonjo to refuse to go in for Eriksen and buy Luis Alberto for a higher fee. Rodgers era. Wow.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Well Jibers you are not wrong

But still though Hans is right because despite some of the idiots on your team you do have 3 or 4 players who can win you a game ( or save a game in De Gea's success) which is more than what Liverpool has.

Utd got back in the game after an hour or so.

Before, Liverpool intercepted every pass to the forwards, got every second ball, took the ball of them all the time, didn't allow them possession, didn't allow them any chances.

Absolutely outstanding set up by Klopp.

Compare that to the way Rodgers' Liverpool were owned by prime van Gaal-United last spring.

Tbf Rodgers tactics were not that much different last time the 2 sides met at Anfield irc. They were on the back of like 10 wins or something deploying a very similar style of high pressing and high energy football using 3-4-3.
The only difference in that match was lvg actually got the better of the opposition manager with some smart counter tactics. Mata and Herrera ran the show and we actually played football. It was o great feeling after that match cos of that.

Here though we were lucky and the tactics which he deployed was a basic long ball which wouldnt have worked on another day.
But in terms of their gameplan i didnt spot much difference between klopp and B-Rod

We have some average players, some decent players, and some good players individually but sadly none of them can actually play with each other. It's a very unbalanced squad on top of lacking quality. Coutinho and Sturridge are the only two that actually are on the same wavelength and both have been plagued by injuries. Firmino I would say is similar and has quality but he's just so inconsistent at the moment. Doesn't help him to play with Lallana, Benteke, Ibe and Milner every match.

Our midfield is awful. Hendo, Milner, Can, Lucas, Allen is just not a good enough midfield depth for anything special. About 7th place is right for us with that midfield. Say whatever you want. Can, Milner, and Hendo are too similar. You only really need one of those kind of players. Can eventually might become really special but not right now. Allen isn't good enough for us. And Lucas has aged badly.

Our defense and GK are shambles. Forget about it. Not even top 10 in the league. None of our CB's complement each other. Sakho is the only one worth keeping of the senior guys. But he's hella injury prone. Gomez and Ilori are good back ups at their young ages and will come good I think. But not for now. Can't wait for Matip tbh. Fullback situation is weird. Moreno has no clue how to defend, he's all about attack. Clyne on the hand is complete opposite, he's really shitty offensively but has good qualities defensively. Back ups are some academy players that will be playing in the Championship (if lucky) in a few seasons. Flanagan has disappeared as if he never existed.

So yeah Klopp really does need a complete overhaul if he wants to take us forward. As great of a manager he is, if he decides he wants to move forward with this same squad he's not going to take us anywhere.

We need quality.

There's a reason Tottenham have finished above us for the 6 of the last 7 seasons.

blame the players all you like. and some of the blame should go to them. but good coaching can make a team play much better and so far klopp has not made us any better at all. just to give a good example of what good coaching can do. Leicester City are 2nd in the table on 44 points with a gd of plus 13 having goals against of 26. now in January last season they were bottom with 17 points. a GD of -16 with a goals against record of 37. now tell me what players they signed in the summer to turn that around. they didn't did they. they changed the manager and he stopped the goals going in at the back. and got the goals going in up front.

It's absolutely ridiculous you'd complain that Klopp has not made you any better after he took over midseason couple of months ago.

If you look at yesterday's game, and compare it to last season's game against Utd at Anfield, the difference is glaring.

Klopp has made you better. He is making you better.
Your tactics were spot on, your organisation was fantastic.

You didn't capitalize on that.

If you're so thick that your patience with a new coach expires after 2 months and you claim there's no difference, when Rodgers a) was at your club for 3 and a half years and b) accordingly had numerous tranfer windows and truckloads of money to assemble this squad you have, you really can't be helped

There's a huge difference already.

If Klopp gets credit for winning the ball back and pressing game he should also share the blame for not scoring too.

He played can-Lucas-Henderson-milner. Of course he was going to win the ball back alot but don't blame players for not getting the goal with v that line up. Ultimately his tactics back fired. United with that weak defense was happy to let Henderson and can shooting from distance.

Hans desperately defending the Bundesfraud.

Ever since Lewandowski stopped carrying him, Klopp's been exposed. It happens. Move on.

Maybe you're right

Hans how much have you even watched of Liverpool? There hasn't been a tactical improvement from Rodgers to Klopp. Maybe a bit more energy and confidence allowing the execution to be a bit better because things went very sour in the last season that Rodgers was there behind the scenes, but otherwise Rodgers was fine at setting up the team and instructing them. That's not a slight on Klopp as you seem to think it is -- Rodgers was a very good coach (and all of his high profile players have talked about it).

As has been mentioned many times the real issue with Rodgers was his team building and talent evaluation (from outside of the squad). He knew how he wanted to play, he was pragmatic, but unfortunately he didn't know how to find pieces to fit into his vision. That's where he fell apart and why I feel if we had a competent DoF and he had agreed to work under one he'd still be here.

Anyway, the past is the past. What we'll need to see moving forward is whether or not Klopp can bring in top class players or not.

Whats with Benteke not starting? Came in at last 10 mins ffs

Hapless_Hans wrote:It's absolutely ridiculous you'd complain that Klopp has not made you any better after he took over midseason couple of months ago.

If you look at yesterday's game, and compare it to last season's game against Utd at Anfield, the difference is glaring.

Klopp has made you better. He is making you better.
Your tactics were spot on, your organisation was fantastic.

You didn't capitalize on that.

If you're so thick that your patience with a new coach expires after 2 months and you claim there's no difference, when Rodgers a) was at your club for 3 and a half years and b) accordingly had numerous tranfer windows and truckloads of money to assemble this squad you have, you really can't be helped

There's a huge difference already.

klopp 4 weeks ago. we didn't defend the cross and lost a goal from the ball in the box. klopp 3 weeks ago. we didn't defend the cross and lost a goal from the ball in the box. klopp 2 weeks ago we didn't def.......well you know the rest. defending is more about team organisation than it is about individual talent. klopp plays with can milner Henderson and lucas. add a back 4 to that and you basicly have 7 defenders there. yet we defend like a team in the drop zone. we make the same mistakes at the back now that we did under Rodgers. teams let sakho have the ball. they back off knowing he will bring the ball forward. they wait till the gap between him and the goal kepper is big then they rush him. he will then give the ball away or kick it long. we then lose the ball from the lont kick and have lots of space in behind they catch us out. that hapends every week. now if I can see that why cant klopp. or if he does see it why don't he fix it.

Pirloisjesus wrote:Whats with Benteke not starting? Came in at last 10 mins ffs

Some of our fans share Klopp's apparent perception that Benteke isn't mobile or skilled enough for our system. Others, like myself, think our attacking woes don't lie in who plays the center-forward, but rather how we build up attacks as a team.

Personally I think Benteke should absolutely be starting, because we have so few real, instinctive goalscorers in the team. At least Benteke is a proven goalscorer and can convert even from sparse opportunities.

Side note but yesterday it hit me again how hilarious Mule League commentators are. Nothing new really, but: "Shades of Schmeichel", "need to come up with more to beat De Gea in this type of form" etc., after he makes absolutely routine saves against outside of the box long range efforts. It's as if they are going to suffer sudden death if they don't exaggerate and hyperbole everything and everyone at all times.

Curtinho wrote:Hans how much have you even watched of Liverpool? There hasn't been a tactical improvement from Rodgers to Klopp. Maybe a bit more energy and confidence allowing the execution to be a bit better because things went very sour in the last season that Rodgers was there behind the scenes, but otherwise Rodgers was fine at setting up the team and instructing them. That's not a slight on Klopp as you seem to think it is -- Rodgers was a very good coach (and all of his high profile players have talked about it).

As has been mentioned many times the real issue with Rodgers was his team building and talent evaluation (from outside of the squad). He knew how he wanted to play, he was pragmatic, but unfortunately he didn't know how to find pieces to fit into his vision. That's where he fell apart and why I feel if we had a competent DoF and he had agreed to work under one he'd still be here.

Anyway, the past is the past. What we'll need to see moving forward is whether or not Klopp can bring in top class players or not.

What I'm saying is not supposed to be a slight on Rodgers either.
Rodgers is a talented coach, but the reason he had to go was not that he's not a talented coach but that Liverpool wasn't going anywhere further after 3 years. Lackluster performances, bad squad building and questionable tranfer decisions, mediocre results.

Don't pretend like you don't know what I mean. Rodgers didn't have to go because he didn't make top 4 (I always agreed with you there that this is a tough ask, for example); but because on top of that stuff happened like failing to make Steven Gerrard's birthday FA cup final due to a lackluster loss against ASTON VILLA or some shit in the semis.

Rodgers might be a talented COACH but as a manager he wasn't going anywhere at Liverpool and it was obvious.

You guys are equating Klopp's work after 3 months with Rodgers after 3 years though

And I will insist on the difference on the field too. Rodgers got owned by van Gaal. Klopp's tactics were spot on. It's clear as day.

people saying klopp needs to buy his own players because players like benteke don't fit his style. have people forgot that klopp tried to sign benteke for BVB.

Liverpool goalkeeper Simon Mignolet has committed his long-term future to the club by signing a fresh contract extension at Melwood today.

The Belgium international joined the Reds in June 2013 and has made 122 appearances between the posts since his switch to Anfield from Sunderland
so who gets the blame for this one boys. Rodgers for buying this scrub. or klopp for giving him a new contract.

Unique wrote:people saying klopp needs to buy his own players because players like benteke don't fit his style. have people forgot that klopp tried to sign benteke for BVB.

If that's true, and I don't know if it is, it would be worth pointing out that, you know, BVB and Liverpool are different teams with different personnel and all.

But that's probably not important, I guess.

CBarca wrote:

Unique wrote:people saying klopp needs to buy his own players because players like benteke don't fit his style. have people forgot that klopp tried to sign benteke for BVB.

If that's true, and I don't know if it is, it would be worth pointing out that, you know, BVB and Liverpool are different teams with different personnel and all.

But that's probably not important, I guess.

is klopp trying to play difernt now than he did at bvb then. I mean so difent that a player can go from being wanted to cant get a game because a clash of styles

who watching swansea-watfrd here?

Everyone open chat imo

Spoiler:

futbol wrote:Side note but yesterday it hit me again how hilarious Mule League commentators are. Nothing new really, but: "Shades of Schmeichel", "need to come up with more to beat De Gea in this type of form" etc., after he makes absolutely routine saves against outside of the box long range efforts. It's as if they are going to suffer sudden death if they don't exaggerate and hyperbole everything and everyone at all times.

Seems like Louis van Gogh agrees with me.

“Everybody is saying that [he was man of the match] but so many of the balls he has not stopped, otherwise you don't need a goalkeeper.”

“I think that's why he is our goalkeeper,” Van Gaal went on. “I have to say he is always reaching a very high level so I'm very happy but I cannot say he has done a lot. He has stopped the balls he has to stop. Maybe that one-hand [he acted out the diving save to his right from Emre Can’s shot], but I think he has to stop that ball. I demand it also of the player, that's why he is playing for Manchester United."

And Whoscored also agrees with me:

Yet, up to a point, Van Gaal was right. De Gea made only four saves in the game. There was the early one from Adam Lallana, who ended up heading tamely at him as he came to the edge of the box after a long ball had sown confusion. There was a sidefoot effort hit straight at him by Jordan Henderson from the edge of the box. There was the one with the side of his right foot as Can was set free at a narrow angle. There was the diving one to his right from Can that Van Gaal acted out.

http://www.whoscored.com/Articles/_tzoxf79rukhsnypx_0zbw/Show/Player-Focus-Was-Van-Gaal-Right-to-Downplay-De-Gea-Display

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this.

You are the only one giving crap about it

I noticed too.
Been saying for months and years now, and have the discussions with the Dear Leader to prove it, that De Gea is mindlessly hyped for simple decent goalkeeping.

He catches 4 fairly standard balls, he's MOTM and the one true World Class player United have, frankly better than Neuer, don't come with Cech, Courtois, Navas, lmao.

I'm watching, Watford haven't been in the game at all. Commentators said it's Behrami's first PL start since September and I'm not surprised, he looks awful. Will probably be taken off at half-time.

Hapless_Hans wrote:I noticed too.
Been saying for months and years now, and have the discussions with the Dear Leader to prove it, that De Gea is mindlessly hyped for simple decent goalkeeping.

He catches 4 fairly standard balls, he's MOTM and the one true World Class player United have, frankly better than Neuer, don't come with Cech, Courtois, Navas, lmao.

I must remind u now I dnt have any leader, as I said "am a changed man". I still respect dear futbol though

Spoiler:

De Gea is a brilliant keeper dunno what you lot are on about lol.