Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
+19
Pip
M99
Lord Awesome
RealGunner
zizzle
silver
Doc
BarrileteCosmico
Gil
Valkyrja
farfan
FennecFox7
Bankz
jibers
LeBéninois
titosantill
sportsczy
Dnmac4
Harmonica
23 posters
Page 4 of 5
Page 4 of 5 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
He scored 8 goals in 55 caps for France.... for a CF. People made fun of Dugarry in France because the rumor was that he only made the team because he was one of ZIdane's best friends. Guivarc'h, the other starting CF during the 1998-2000 period, had 1 goal in 14 caps. He made the team during the 1997 year, became a started in 1998 and was gone for good in 1999 lol.
Really too bad Anelka was such an idiot. They actually wanted to start him in 1999 after his breakout season but he made everyone mad on NT pretty quickly looool. Got 10 caps and 2 goals though but the job could have been his. Got a double in a friendly against England in that period and that was it.
So the 3 main CFs from 1997 until 2000 had a total of 79 caps and scored a grand total of 11 goals looooooooooool.
Really too bad Anelka was such an idiot. They actually wanted to start him in 1999 after his breakout season but he made everyone mad on NT pretty quickly looool. Got 10 caps and 2 goals though but the job could have been his. Got a double in a friendly against England in that period and that was it.
So the 3 main CFs from 1997 until 2000 had a total of 79 caps and scored a grand total of 11 goals looooooooooool.
sportsczy- Ballon d'Or Contender
- Posts : 21607
Join date : 2011-12-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
come on, there's no argument, dugarry was garbage, i don't know how he was in ligue un, but in england, spain italy, and the french team, he was crap, couldn't cut through a wet paper bag with scissors in his hand. even in 98, i was surprised the french team didn't still take papin, who had passed his sell by date by then. henry and trezeguet where still very new to me, i'm sure they were making names for themselves in france, but at that time, i didn't really know that
titosantill- Fan Favorite
- Posts : 5061
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
as far as the zidane messi thing i don't know, i never thought of such a comparison. the truth is, france in 98 had a better midfield and defense imo. argentina has a good team and whether anyone likes it or not, they've underachieved, considering they've got the best footballer in the word and some good players across the board. their defense in terms of personnel isn't all that, but one can say defensively, in the last two tournaments, their defense has actually outperformed their creativity....its just a weird comparison that gets into "who had more help", which in turn gets into fans either overrating average players to suggest the player they like had help, or disrespecting good players to claim the player they like had NO help....and we run around in circles yet again
titosantill- Fan Favorite
- Posts : 5061
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
Harmonica wrote:And you don't? The baguette goes into stomach, not in the brain.sportsczy wrote:And you think the WC best player award was legit I assume
James, Robben and Neuer. They had a better WC than Messi. If you truly believe his best player of the tournament award was legit then you're seriously biased beyond recognition.
As for the thread itself, it's laughable, really. Messi's international career is NOTHING compared to Zidane's. It's actually quite embarrassing the way you try to justify his legendary flopping.
Now we're trying to make being a "runner-up" look like a freaking trophy? Jesus Christ man, have some self-respect.
The Demon of Carthage- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 6655
Join date : 2015-01-25
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
That's a statement, not an argument. Learn how to argue your opinion if you want a serious answer from me.The Demon of Carthage wrote:
James, Robben and Neuer. They had a better WC than Messi. If you truly believe his best player of the tournament award was legit then you're seriously biased beyond recognition.
As for the thread itself, it's laughable, really. Messi's international career is NOTHING compared to Zidane's. It's actually quite embarrassing the way you try to justify his legendary flopping.
Now we're trying to make being a "runner-up" look like a freaking trophy? Jesus Christ man, have some self-respect.
Harmonica- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 14247
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
With one link I could provide the source, but you don't actually deserve that. You wouldn't have to question them if you think they don't matter.FennecFox7 wrote:and how do we know you are using opta? prove it. its that simple
also using tackles to display superiority of a player. jesus christ save me from this stupidity. i think we should compare xavi to de jong in 2010. hey guys, de jong had more tackles. he was a way more dominang player!!
Those 4 statistics are the most important statistics.
Goals - How much player provided attacking quality
Chances Created - How much player provided playmaking quality
Dribbles - How much player provided advancing play
Tackling - How much player provided defending quality
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC14
4 - 23 - 46 - 9 - Messi
5 - 17 - 12 - 7 - Müller
3 - 17 - 34 - 2 - Robben
6 - 11 - 15 - 6 - James
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC10
5 - 17 - 7 - 0 - Forlan
5 - 11 - 9 - 4 - Sneijder
5 - 13 - 11 - 1 - Villa
0 - 30 - 10 - 9 - Xavi
0 - 16 - 34 - 7 - Messi
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC06
3 - 12 - 15 - 4 - Zidane
5 - 15 - 8 - 8 - Klose
3 - 12 - 20 - 1 - Henry
1 - 24 - 11 - 17 - Pirlo
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC02
x - x - x - x - Kahn
8 - 13 - 11 - 4 - Ronaldo
5 - 13 - 14 - 7 - Rivaldo
1 - 24 - 7 - 17 - Schneider
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC98
4 - 7 - 16 - 3 - Ronaldo
6 - 9 - 15 - 6 - Suker
3 - 18 - 17 - 6 - Rivaldo
2 - 19 - 20 - 10 - De Boer
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC94
5 - 8 - 25 - 1 - Romario
5 - 12 - 14 - 10 - Baggio
6 - 6 - 14 - 7 - Stoichkov
3 - 18 - 17 - 11 - Brolin
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC90
6 - 8 - 9 - 2 - Schillaci
4 - 21 - 22 - 22 - Matthaus
3 - 24 - 3 - 17 - Brehme
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC86
5 - 27 - 53 - 11 - Maradona
5 - 18 - 9 - 3 - Careca
6 - 3 - 2 - 1 - Lineker
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC82
6 - 14 - 10 - 2 - Rossi
4 - 18 - 13 - 5 - Boniek
3 - 8 - 10 - 15 - Falcao
3 - 24 - 17 - 5 - Giresse
No stats for Rummenigge.
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC78
6 - 18 - 43 - 5 - Kempes
5 - 15 - 19 - 8 - Rensenbrink
2 - 19 - 10 - 24 - Haan
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC74
3 - 36 - 33 - 9 - Cruyff
3 - 30 - 23 - 17 - Deyna
7 - 13 - 8 - 14 - Lato
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC70
4 - 28 - 16 - 9 - Pele
7 - 13 - 47 - 4 - Jairzinho
10 - 14 - 4 - 0 - Gerd Müller
Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC66
3 - 18 - 15 - 15 - Charlton
9 - 10 - 35 - 10 - Eusebio
4 - 9 - 22 - 17 - Beckenbauer
The least controversial World Cup Golden Ball, based on most important statistics:
1. Maradona 86
2. Kempes 78
3. Messi 14
4. Cruyff 74
5. Romario 94
6. Rossi 82
7. Forlan 10
8. Pele 70
9. Schillaci 90
10. Charlton 66
11. Ronaldo 98
12. Zidane 06
13. Kahn 02
Harmonica- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 14247
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
Zidane had more success, based ironically on title statistics, but performance wise he isn't even remotely close of Messi with NT.
Messi WC14
4 goals from 3 great scoring chances
17 great scoring chances created
46 players beaten by dribble (OPTA)
11 tackles (OPTA)
Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)
7 (4 + 1 + 2) out of 8 team goals = 88% importance (+1 SO goal)
Goals Scored
Bosnia And Hertzegovina 1
Iran 1
Nigeria 1
Nigeria 2
Great Scoring Chances Missed
Belgium 1
Germany 1
Great Chances Greated
Bosnia 1
Bosnia 2
Bosnia 3
Iran 1
Nigeria 1
Nigeria 2
Switzerland 1
Switzerland 2
Switzerland 3
Switzerland 4
Belgium 1
Belgium 2
Belgium 3
Netherlands 1
Netherlands 2
Netherlands 3
Germany 1
Zidane WC06
3 goals from 6 great scoring chances
10 great scoring chances created
15 players beaten by dribble (OPTA)
4 tackles (OPTA)
Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)
5 (3 (2p) + 1 + 1) out of 9 team goals = 56% importance
Goals Scored
Spain 1
Portugal 1
Italy 1
Great Scoring Chances Missed
Brazil 1
Portugal 1
Italy 1
Great Chances Created
Switzerland 1
Switzerland 2
South Korea 1
South Korea 2
Spain 1
Brazil 1
Brazil 2
Brazil 3
Brazil 4
Italy 1
From the performance's I've watched, Zidane 06 is easily the least impressive:
- He coasted group phase, France tied twice with him and won crucially without him.
- Excluding the penalties he didn't create, scored only one goal from open play when the game was almost done an dusted.
- For a playmaker didn't create as much, only registered 12 chances created which is a lot less than other playmakers Cruyff 74 (36), Pele 70 (28), Maradona 86 (27), Messi 14 (23). Again watching the games confirm what statistics already pointed.
- The red card incident just about is the cherry on a hype crusted and half hollow cake.
Messi WC14
4 goals from 3 great scoring chances
17 great scoring chances created
46 players beaten by dribble (OPTA)
11 tackles (OPTA)
Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)
7 (4 + 1 + 2) out of 8 team goals = 88% importance (+1 SO goal)
Goals Scored
Bosnia And Hertzegovina 1
Iran 1
Nigeria 1
Nigeria 2
Great Scoring Chances Missed
Belgium 1
Germany 1
Great Chances Greated
Bosnia 1
Bosnia 2
Bosnia 3
Iran 1
Nigeria 1
Nigeria 2
Switzerland 1
Switzerland 2
Switzerland 3
Switzerland 4
Belgium 1
Belgium 2
Belgium 3
Netherlands 1
Netherlands 2
Netherlands 3
Germany 1
Zidane WC06
3 goals from 6 great scoring chances
10 great scoring chances created
15 players beaten by dribble (OPTA)
4 tackles (OPTA)
Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)
5 (3 (2p) + 1 + 1) out of 9 team goals = 56% importance
Goals Scored
Spain 1
Portugal 1
Italy 1
Great Scoring Chances Missed
Brazil 1
Portugal 1
Italy 1
Great Chances Created
Switzerland 1
Switzerland 2
South Korea 1
South Korea 2
Spain 1
Brazil 1
Brazil 2
Brazil 3
Brazil 4
Italy 1
From the performance's I've watched, Zidane 06 is easily the least impressive:
- He coasted group phase, France tied twice with him and won crucially without him.
- Excluding the penalties he didn't create, scored only one goal from open play when the game was almost done an dusted.
- For a playmaker didn't create as much, only registered 12 chances created which is a lot less than other playmakers Cruyff 74 (36), Pele 70 (28), Maradona 86 (27), Messi 14 (23). Again watching the games confirm what statistics already pointed.
- The red card incident just about is the cherry on a hype crusted and half hollow cake.
Harmonica- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 14247
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
Harmonica wrote:
From the performance's I've watched, Zidane 06 is easily the least impressive:
- He coasted group phase, France tied twice with him and won crucially without him.
- Excluding the penalties he didn't create, scored only one goal from open play when the game was almost done an dusted.
- For a playmaker didn't create as much, only registered 12 chances created which is a lot less than other playmakers Cruyff 74 (36), Pele 70 (28), Maradona 86 (27), Messi 14 (23). Again watching the games confirm what statistics already pointed.
- The red card incident just about is the cherry on a hype crusted and half hollow cake.
What kind of human being counts the number of chances created by a player during a game of football ?
Valkyrja- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 11357
Join date : 2011-11-10
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
@valk. Lol, tought i was the only one thinking it too. Whats even worse is those involved and great chances stats, in some cases wide assists. Now tell me, how ridiculous can it be?
Bankz- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 2888
Join date : 2014-06-17
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
The one who actually wants the relative and logical truth, rather than sheeping generalizations of the deluded mass. Those are actually OPTA-stats, my "great chance's" are counted above, with the actual video evidence.Valkyrja wrote:What kind of human being counts the number of chances created by a player during a game of football ?Harmonica wrote:
From the performance's I've watched, Zidane 06 is easily the least impressive:
- He coasted group phase, France tied twice with him and won crucially without him.
- Excluding the penalties he didn't create, scored only one goal from open play when the game was almost done an dusted.
- For a playmaker didn't create as much, only registered 12 chances created which is a lot less than other playmakers Cruyff 74 (36), Pele 70 (28), Maradona 86 (27), Messi 14 (23). Again watching the games confirm what statistics already pointed.
- The red card incident just about is the cherry on a hype crusted and half hollow cake.
Harmonica- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 14247
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
But there's nothing logical or rational about it.
You just SAY these are the 4 most important stats. You don't provide any kind of evidence.
You have Dunning-Kruger perchance? I think you do.
You just SAY these are the 4 most important stats. You don't provide any kind of evidence.
You have Dunning-Kruger perchance? I think you do.
zigra- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 4247
Join date : 2013-08-15
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
That's not an argument, but a statement, if you want me take you seriously, learn how to argue.
I already argued why they are the most important statistics, furthermore they are the top 4 factors described of great players generally.
I already argued why they are the most important statistics, furthermore they are the top 4 factors described of great players generally.
Harmonica- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 14247
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
What makes you think I want to argue with you? Are you really not even capable of understanding a post THAT simple? Really?
zigra- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 4247
Join date : 2013-08-15
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
You're in this thread, you can leave with that attitude, there's a lot of ignorant threads there for you.
Harmonica- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 14247
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
Zidane :
3 goals in world cup final .
Messi :
0 KO stage goals in 3 world cups .
3 goals in world cup final .
Messi :
0 KO stage goals in 3 world cups .
farfan- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 5820
Join date : 2013-05-30
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
Harmonica wrote:You're in this thread, you can leave with that attitude, there's a lot of ignorant threads there for you.
Or I could stay
zigra- First Team
- Club Supported :
Posts : 4247
Join date : 2013-08-15
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
France carried Zidane to World Cup final, where he stole all the credit, Messi carried Argentina to World Cup final where he lost all the credit.farfan wrote:Zidane :
3 goals in world cup final .
Messi :
0 KO stage goals in 3 world cups .
Harmonica- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 14247
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
Official MoM
WC06 France run
Group 1 Makelele
Group 2 Ji-Sung
Group 3 Vieira
R16 Vieira
QF Zidane
SF Thuram
Final Pirlo
Total 1 MoM, 1/5 of France or 20%
WC14 Argentina run
Group 1 Messi
Group 2 Messi
Group 3 Messi
R16 Messi
QF Higuain
SF Romero
Final Götze
Total 4 MoM, 4/6 of Argentina or 67%
Everywhere you watch you see the same conclusion.
WC06 France run
Group 1 Makelele
Group 2 Ji-Sung
Group 3 Vieira
R16 Vieira
QF Zidane
SF Thuram
Final Pirlo
Total 1 MoM, 1/5 of France or 20%
WC14 Argentina run
Group 1 Messi
Group 2 Messi
Group 3 Messi
R16 Messi
QF Higuain
SF Romero
Final Götze
Total 4 MoM, 4/6 of Argentina or 67%
Everywhere you watch you see the same conclusion.
Harmonica- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 14247
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
Messi Carried Argentina
a solid defensive bloc and grinding out narrow wins that Messi had very little to do with post the second round carried Argentina .
Messi was man of the match vs Bosnia ,Nigeria and Iran ? how can zidane's matches against Brazil in 1998 and 2006 , spain and portugal in euro 2000 compare to such lofty standards ?
a solid defensive bloc and grinding out narrow wins that Messi had very little to do with post the second round carried Argentina .
Messi was man of the match vs Bosnia ,Nigeria and Iran ? how can zidane's matches against Brazil in 1998 and 2006 , spain and portugal in euro 2000 compare to such lofty standards ?
farfan- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 5820
Join date : 2013-05-30
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
lmao @ "lofty standards" good one
titosantill- Fan Favorite
- Posts : 5061
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
It's a well documented fact that Messi can only stand out when he has at least 2 more top 5 players in the world alongside him. 4 years in a row when he won the Ballon d'Or Xavi and Iniesta were top 5 in the Ballon d'Or rankings. The moment Xavi in particular dropped off post 2012, Messi lost out 2 seasons in a row to Ronaldo and the talks of "decline" started. Now that Barca has bought 2 top 5 players in the world again in Neymar and Suarez to carry Messi, Messi is walking the individual awards again but, as usual, keeps flopping when he has to play with Argentina because there is no Neymar or Suarez to make the difference. System player who needs all-time great support cast. For that reason all-time top 10 - 15 at best.
:)
:)
futbol- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 11262
Join date : 2012-11-23
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
futbol wrote:It's a well documented fact that Messi can only stand out when he has at least 2 more top 5 players in the world alongside him. 4 years in a row when he won the Ballon d'Or Xavi and Iniesta were top 5 in the Ballon d'Or rankings. The moment Xavi in particular dropped off post 2012, Messi lost out 2 seasons in a row to Ronaldo and the talks of "decline" started. Now that Barca has bought 2 top 5 players in the world again in Neymar and Suarez to carry Messi, Messi is walking the individual awards again but, as usual, keeps flopping when he has to play with Argentina because there is no Neymar or Suarez to make the difference. System player who needs all-time great support cast. For that reason all-time top 10 - 15 at best.
this sarcastic post doesn't exactly make a case for Messi being better than Zidane in the NT stage.
farfan- Fan Favorite
- Club Supported :
Posts : 5820
Join date : 2013-05-30
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
The irony of quoting "on paper" strength to what actually happened on the field.
What next, learning how good players were from a book? Oh wait...
What next, learning how good players were from a book? Oh wait...
Harmonica- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 14247
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
If they're opta stats that are free, he could link them. He won't (that should tell you enough ). If he says he pays for them and can't link, he can make a still pic of a opta search either online or on one of their widgets. I paid for opta for a bit and it's very expensive. I know what things should look like.
If he refuses to post any proof whatsoever.... Well.
If he refuses to post any proof whatsoever.... Well.
sportsczy- Ballon d'Or Contender
- Club Supported :
Posts : 21607
Join date : 2011-12-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
Too late.futbol wrote:It's a well documented fact that Messi can only stand out when he has at least 2 more top 5 players in the world alongside him. 4 years in a row when he won the Ballon d'Or Xavi and Iniesta were top 5 in the Ballon d'Or rankings. The moment Xavi in particular dropped off post 2012, Messi lost out 2 seasons in a row to Ronaldo and the talks of "decline" started. Now that Barca has bought 2 top 5 players in the world again in Neymar and Suarez to carry Messi, Messi is walking the individual awards again but, as usual, keeps flopping when he has to play with Argentina because there is no Neymar or Suarez to make the difference. System player who needs all-time great support cast. For that reason all-time top 10 - 15 at best.
OP:
Harmonica wrote:
Xaviesta+Villa
WC10 champion (Villa Bronze Ball, EU08/WC10 9+1+2)
Euro08 champion (Xavi Best Player, EU08/12/WC10 1+6+9)
Euro12 champion (Iniesta Best Player, EU08/12/WC10 2+4+8 )
Involved collectively 25/32 goals.
Messi @28
WC14 runner-up (Golden Ball, 4+1+2)
CA07 runner-up (Best Young Player, 2+3+3)
CA15 runner-up (MVP, 1+3+6)
Involved in 25/34 goals.
Spanish national team had a club edge forming players from two teams mostly, and also a tactical edge. Germany has been similar without the general tactical edge, silver/bronze/gold run, most player from Bundesliga knowing each other well and working in well oiled system. Argentina hasn't had familiarity edge nor tactical edge, with players flying to NT from all over the world, constantly changing coaches and tactics. They've had Messi though. In club football familiarity and tactical edges aren't nearly as important, quality of the players is.
Harmonica- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 14247
Join date : 2011-06-07
Re: Messi vs Zidane at the highest level of int football
Already linked Dr. Watson.sportsczy wrote:If they're opta stats that are free, he could link them. He won't (that should tell you enough ). If he says he pays for them and can't link, he can make a still pic of a opta search either online or on one of their widgets. I paid for opta for a bit and it's very expensive. I know what things should look like.
If he refuses to post any proof whatsoever.... Well.
Harmonica- World Class Contributor
- Club Supported :
Posts : 14247
Join date : 2011-06-07
Page 4 of 5 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Similar topics
» Is De Gea proven at the highest level?
» 4 at the back will be dead at the highest level..
» Top 10 Highest Selling Club Football Jerseys
» Top 10 Highest-Paid Football Managers in 2014
» Highest Wages in Football (and in Sport)
» 4 at the back will be dead at the highest level..
» Top 10 Highest Selling Club Football Jerseys
» Top 10 Highest-Paid Football Managers in 2014
» Highest Wages in Football (and in Sport)
Page 4 of 5
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Today at 8:09 am by Robespierre
» Mbappe to Real Madrid - Official
Today at 6:06 am by Harmonica
» GL NBA fantasy 24-25
Today at 2:47 am by Warrior
» The US Politics Thread
Today at 2:22 am by BarrileteCosmico
» Champions League '24/25
Today at 12:25 am by Arquitecto
» Manga and Anime
Yesterday at 12:28 pm by BarrileteCosmico
» Balotelli Watch - OGC Nice
Yesterday at 1:21 am by BarrileteCosmico
» General Games Discussion
Tue Nov 05, 2024 11:00 pm by Firenze
» The Official Real Madrid Matchday Thread 24 - 25
Tue Nov 05, 2024 9:04 pm by halamadrid2
» Premier League 2024/25
Tue Nov 05, 2024 7:22 pm by Glory
» Barca '24-'25 under Flick
Tue Nov 05, 2024 11:07 am by Myesyats
» La Liga 2024/25
Tue Nov 05, 2024 4:24 am by BarcaLearning
» The Walking Dead III
Mon Nov 04, 2024 10:48 pm by RealGunner