GAME OF THRONES - PART 5 - *NO BOOK TALK - READ THE RULES*

The snow looked pretty compact

This show is getting ridicules, they spent 10 minute walking a naked chick through a horny crowd.

Kit Harington(Jon snow)

'I'm not coming back' I loved how they brought Olly in to be the person who kills me.

Still think there's a chance he'll be alive next season.

Mellissandre coming to NW just before he dies means she knew things. Hopefully the bitch makes herself useful for once.

Man that was some depressing shit.

So '20 good men' somehow are able to surprise the "best military commander" (their own words) by burning the food supplies and killing horses who ESPECIALLY in those conditions should be guarded heavily. Then HALF of Stannis' forces desert exactly why? They are sellswords, they sell their sword and don't care if they are serving a monster so long as they get paid. And Stannis has the Iron Bank paying for him .... then the most anticipating battle since E1 is basically a slaughter and very conveniently Stannis survives the battle only to be killed by Brienne and NOT the thousand Bolton soldiers who will be plundering after the battle. And worst of all, Brienne decides that killing Stannis who was going to bring Sansa to safety and make her Lady of Winterfell is more important than looking after Sansa. Honestly Ramsay catching Stannis and FLAYING him would've been better than this.

And now the Baratheon family is GONE, how satisfying will Dany's eventual arrival in Westeros be when the house that usurped the Targaryens is gone? With Myrcella gone aswell, Dany will have an easy fight against Tommen first of his name, Cersei the shamed and Jaime the cripple.

I won't even go for Dorne, it was crap from start to finish. Seriously how stupid is killing Myrcella now that Trystane is with the Lannisters alone. They could flay the only heir Doran has for anything Dorne can do.

King's Landing was very well done, I loved Lena's acting and Mountainstein but I was hoping to see what happened to Margaery, Loras, Olenna, Littlefinger? As was Braavos by the way, that was some messed up shit and punishment was expected after breaking the first rule of the Faceless Men.

Last of all, Jon has the time to speak to Sam about Hardhome but not the angry dudes who are about to start a mutiny. Really David and Dan? Sure let's avoid this conversation so the mutiny can make sense

As I said the writing this season has been poor. They jumped from A to C without showing us the B and when they did it went too long (like the many foreshadowing that went on).

Hopefully next season they improve on the writing but I must say half the hype is gone already.

LeVersacci wrote:Still think there's a chance he'll be alive next season.

Mellissandre coming to NW just before he dies means she knew things. Hopefully the bitch makes herself useful for once.

Jon snow will come back as Azor Ahai?

Of course sellswords care who they fight for. Yes, they fight FOR gold but that doesn't mean they are mindless zombies. Kinslaying itself is considered probably the biggest sin one can commit and Stannis did not only kinslay, he burned his innocent daughter alive! For better weather! After ep9 I said I can't see a great tactician burn his own daughter in public because it kills morale and will lead to people deserting him.
I don't think this is illogical at all.
However Stannis really did a job of showing us how bad a commander he is Just walking towards Winterfell without even considering the possibility of the Boltons making a charge
Goat commander
Obviously not dead though. I'm ready to put money on him being alive.

Anyone know the song they use whenever "Previously on GoT" comes up? Can't find it on the OST and its quite catchy

Blame the writers for making him look like a scrub who's playing his first game in Battlefield smh..

Nope they don't really, they only choose the side that pays more and is more likely to win. Well most of them.

Sellswords are paid thugs, they don't choose who is the rightful/kinder/beautiful king worth fighting for, they choose the side that is more likely to win and get paid.

Look at the sellswords we know Bronn, Daario, Mero, the other sellswords in Yunkai/Meereen, they all chase the gold and want to win. Stannis would've won the battle 100% with the Iron Bank behind him but they needed him to lose so they made this up to "justify" desertion.

Would you guys be ok, with The Red Woman if she can bring Jon back?

urbaNRoots wrote:Nope they don't really, they only choose the side that pays more and is more likely to win. Well most of them.

Sellswords are paid thugs, they don't choose who is the rightful/kinder/beautiful king worth fighting for, they choose the side that is more likely to win and get paid.

Look at the sellswords we know Bronn, Daario, Mero, the other sellswords in Yunkai/Meereen, they all chase the gold and want to win. Stannis would've won the battle 100% with the Iron Bank behind him but they needed him to lose so they made this up to "justify" desertion.

They don't care if you're the right king, but that doesn't say they don't care about anything. Maybe you underrate what burning your own kin means in Westeros. Maybe I overrate it but personally I think it's not crazy that a part of the sellswords left him. Especially as it wasn't "just" that.
You have to consider the situation. They were marching on Winterfell. The weather was bad, people were freezing/starving. Siege weapons destroyed. And then the guy who hired them decides that he can solve the situation by burning his daughter Honestly even if I don't care about morale I'd say the guy is just nuts and would run to save my life.
Not all of them left after all.
Hilarious though that they were able to take all the horses with them.
Really in Stannis camp anyone can just do whatever he wants

LeVersacci wrote:Blame the writers for making him look like a scrub who's playing his first game in Battlefield smh..

Obviously it's their fault.

Nah man the weather improved, they even made a point of showing it to us. All they needed is one more push and they'd have Winterfell to plunder, get paid by Stannis and THEN move on if they don't agree with his ways.

Now instead of moving on with the plot we'll have another battle of Winterfell next year but now with Littlefinger involved, who'll conveniently win the battle despite having no military experience.

They'll weaken the Boltons with some shit excuse like "half of their army got sick" or "they lost many men in the battle against Stannis" despite it being a slaughter and incredibly one sided. Oh and the Vale will have 60000 men or something

urbaNRoots wrote:Man that was some depressing shit.

So '20 good men' somehow are able to surprise the "best military commander" (their own words) by burning the food supplies and killing horses who ESPECIALLY in those conditions should be guarded heavily. Then HALF of Stannis' forces desert exactly why? They are sellswords, they sell their sword and don't care if they are serving a monster so long as they get paid. And Stannis has the Iron Bank paying for him ....

Still that doesnt make them inhuman. They witnessed first hand what their leader did. And its not usually something someone does whatever be the circumstance or desperation.
So eventhough the reason is justified but still the way they presented in episode 9 when a couple of the soldiers's faces were shown in close up looking pissed wasnt exactly convincing. Thats the problem here.

urbaNRoots wrote:
then the most anticipating battle since E1 is basically a slaughter and very conveniently Stannis survives the battle only to be killed by Brienne and NOT the thousand Bolton soldiers who will be plundering after the battle. And worst of all, Brienne decides that killing Stannis who was going to bring Sansa to safety and make her Lady of Winterfell is more important than looking after Sansa. Honestly Ramsay catching Stannis and FLAYING him would've been better than this.

Whats the point in showing 2 despicable men fight each other and devoting precious screentime for that especially in an alarmingly rushed episode/book finale scenario like this ?
People wont care , or let's say most people wont care about the outcome of a stannis v boltons battle. Stannis got killed in their eyes in the episode 9. No act can redeem that.

And as for Stannis getting killed and not captured (and flayed), it makes sense as well. Whats the point of continuing an arc if theres no scope for it in the future.
His last and only ally at this stage, Melisandre leaving him at this juncture after basically wiping out his entire clan and relatives had made him totally lose it, its like. He knew theres no way back. Thats why the meek acceptance of fate. He was a broken man right from the point where he decided to put his daughter to stake.
I am not defending Stannis's death here btw. Its certainly not the ideal way to weave that arc, But still after the horrific deed of episode 9 this was the next best way to go. And more so now that Melisandre and davos have gone from his side.  

urbaNRoots wrote:
Last of all, Jon has the time to speak to Sam about Hardhome but not the angry dudes who are about to start a mutiny. Really David and Dan? Sure let's avoid this conversation so the mutiny can make sense

I dont think talking to them would have made things any different. The unrest and supposed conspiracy was set in place right from the point he left for hardhome and it got accentuated since Aemon's death. Remember Thorne threatening sam and then some of the brothers subsequently attacking him and gilly only to be saved by ghost. Its easy to assume every soul in Castle black was anti Jon at this point. Or simply Thorne had made sure that.
I dont think hence that a month long (assuming hardhome journey was of that much duration) planning and plotting involving basically everyone can be undone by a single speech.

Hasn't Winter arrived? I have a hard time seeing LF march in these weather conditions

urbaNRoots wrote:Nah man the weather improved, they even made a point of showing it to us. All they needed is one more push and they'd have Winterfell to plunder, get paid by Stannis and THEN move on if they don't agree with his ways.

Now instead of moving on with the plot we'll have another battle of Winterfell next year but now with Littlefinger involved, who'll conveniently win the battle despite having no military experience.

They'll weaken the Boltons with some shit excuse like "half of their army got sick" or "they lost many men in the battle against Stannis" despite it being a slaughter and incredibly one sided. Oh and the Vale will have 60000 men or something

When the weather improved, they were already gone as far as I see it. Once they were gone they couldn't return.

And of course there's still the question how they'd take Winterfell? Didn't the 20 good men destroy Stannis' siege weapons? You're talking like taking Winterfell was a sure thing when imo even with good weather the odds didn't favour Stannis.

You know I don't like the whole arc myself. I still hope we get an epic battle of winterfell in the books. But I really don't think that people deserting Stannis is illogical.

zigra wrote:Of course sellswords care who they fight for. Yes, they fight FOR gold but that doesn't mean they are mindless zombies. Kinslaying itself is considered probably the biggest sin one can commit and Stannis did not only kinslay, he burned his innocent daughter alive! For better weather! After ep9 I said I can't see a great tactician burn his own daughter in public because it kills morale and will lead to people deserting him.
I don't think this is illogical at all.
However Stannis really did a job of showing us how bad a commander he is Just walking towards Winterfell without even considering the possibility of the Boltons making a charge
Goat commander
Obviously not dead though. I'm ready to put money on him being alive.

This part aint illogical either.
1. They always feared weather. Remember Stannis's response when Daavos suggested them to return to castle black a couple of episodes before. He knew snow is unpredictable and wont get a chance again if he squanders this.
2. Already lost 'mentally' after Melisandre left him after doing all those things to him and his family. She was the one who made him do all the bad things and when shit hit her she simply left. That broke the poor man's heart like never before. So at this point he wasnt fighting a war at all. Instead he was just going through the motions and accepting his fate especially for killing his daughter.
It wasnt Stannis the strategist on battle field. Instead it was Stannis the man who lost everything and wanted an end to his sins.

My only hope is that Jon gets resurrected with dat Lord of light power. Would be a convenient way to get him away from the nights watch without breaking his beloved oath. But this is GoT and everybody is dead

Glory wrote:

zigra wrote:Of course sellswords care who they fight for. Yes, they fight FOR gold but that doesn't mean they are mindless zombies. Kinslaying itself is considered probably the biggest sin one can commit and Stannis did not only kinslay, he burned his innocent daughter alive! For better weather! After ep9 I said I can't see a great tactician burn his own daughter in public because it kills morale and will lead to people deserting him.
I don't think this is illogical at all.
However Stannis really did a job of showing us how bad a commander he is Just walking towards Winterfell without even considering the possibility of the Boltons making a charge
Goat commander
Obviously not dead though. I'm ready to put money on him being alive.

This part aint illogical either.
1. They always feared weather. Remember Stannis's response when Daavos suggested them to return to castle black a couple of episodes before. He knew snow is unpredictable and wont get a chance again if he squanders this.
2. Already lost 'mentally' after Melisandre left him after doing all those things to him and his family. She was the one who made him do all the bad things and when shit hit her she simply left. That broke the poor man's heart like never before. So at this point he wasnt fighting a war at all. Instead he was just going through the motions and accepting his fate especially for killing his daughter.
It wasnt Stannis the strategist on battle field. Instead it was Stannis the man who lost everything and wanted an end to his sins.

To 1: I know he had to march, but he should've prepared in some way for a charge. I mean come on, it's hardly something you wouldn't expect.

2:
When Stannis unsheathed the sword, that should have been such a Stannis the Mannis moment

zigra wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:Nah man the weather improved, they even made a point of showing it to us. All they needed is one more push and they'd have Winterfell to plunder, get paid by Stannis and THEN move on if they don't agree with his ways.

Now instead of moving on with the plot we'll have another battle of Winterfell next year but now with Littlefinger involved, who'll conveniently win the battle despite having no military experience.

They'll weaken the Boltons with some shit excuse like "half of their army got sick" or "they lost many men in the battle against Stannis" despite it being a slaughter and incredibly one sided. Oh and the Vale will have 60000 men or something

When the weather improved, they were already gone as far as I see it. Once they were gone they couldn't return.

And of course there's still the question how they'd take Winterfell? Didn't the 20 good men destroy Stannis' siege weapons? You're talking like taking Winterfell was a sure thing when imo even with good weather the odds didn't favour Stannis.

You know I don't like the whole arc myself. I still hope we get an epic battle of winterfell in the books. But I really don't think that people deserting Stannis is illogical.

That's exactly the point man, they made Stannis an idiot to make this happen all of it, the desertions, the 20 good men, and we know from previous seasons he's not an idiot. It's bad, rushed writing. They couldn't find another way so they went with the 'he's an idiot" route.

Some guy on reddit regarding Melisandre wrote:

Last week: *bleep* this crazy bitch, I hate her!
This week: LORD OF LIGHT LEAD US FROM THE DARKNESS

Melisandre was hilarious tbh, probably unintentional but it was f*cking hilarious


"The Lord has shown me the Boltons banner on fire"


*finds out his wife's dead and half his army has f*cked off*

*runs away*

My (really) short take on Stannis, is that he's become so obsessed that he can't see beyond his own desires. Just looks at his face when he sees his wife, he looked indifferent. The premise of his path was righteousness, but the path itself was unscrupulous, to say the least

Tbf I was so happy his wife killed herself, she annoyed the fk out of me

Glory wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:Man that was some depressing shit.

So '20 good men' somehow are able to surprise the "best military commander" (their own words) by burning the food supplies and killing horses who ESPECIALLY in those conditions should be guarded heavily. Then HALF of Stannis' forces desert exactly why? They are sellswords, they sell their sword and don't care if they are serving a monster so long as they get paid. And Stannis has the Iron Bank paying for him ....

Still that doesnt make them inhuman. They witnessed first hand what their leader did. And its not usually something someone does whatever be the circumstance or desperation.
So eventhough the reason is justified but still the way they presented in episode 9 when a couple of the soldiers's faces were shown in close up looking pissed wasnt exactly convincing. Thats the problem here.

urbaNRoots wrote:
then the most anticipating battle since E1 is basically a slaughter and very conveniently Stannis survives the battle only to be killed by Brienne and NOT the thousand Bolton soldiers who will be plundering after the battle. And worst of all, Brienne decides that killing Stannis who was going to bring Sansa to safety and make her Lady of Winterfell is more important than looking after Sansa. Honestly Ramsay catching Stannis and FLAYING him would've been better than this.

Whats the point in showing 2 despicable men fight each other and devoting precious screentime for that especially in an alarmingly rushed episode/book finale scenario like this ?
People wont care , or let's say most people wont care about the outcome of a stannis v boltons battle. Stannis got killed in their eyes in the episode 9. No act can redeem that.

And as for Stannis getting killed and not captured (and flayed), it makes sense as well. Whats the point of continuing an arc if theres no scope for it in the future.
His last and only ally at this stage, Melisandre leaving him at this juncture after basically wiping out his entire clan and relatives had made him totally lose it, its like. He knew theres no way back. Thats why the meek acceptance of fate. He was a broken man right from the point where he decided to put his daughter to stake.
I am not defending Stannis's death here btw. Its certainly not the ideal way to weave that arc, But still after the horrific deed of episode 9 this was the next best way to go. And more so now that Melisandre and davos have gone from his side.  

urbaNRoots wrote:
Last of all, Jon has the time to speak to Sam about Hardhome but not the angry dudes who are about to start a mutiny. Really David and Dan? Sure let's avoid this conversation so the mutiny can make sense

I dont think talking to them would have made things any different. The unrest and supposed conspiracy was set in place right from the point he left for hardhome and it got accentuated since Aemon's death. Remember Thorne threatening sam and then some of the brothers subsequently attacking him and gilly only to be saved by ghost. Its easy to assume every soul in Castle black was anti Jon at this point. Or simply Thorne had made sure that.
I dont think hence that a month long (assuming hardhome journey was of that much duration) planning and plotting involving basically everyone can be undone by a single speech.

Sure no one would care but we'll probably see the same battle with Littlefinger (another despicable man) now which is going to take half a season or more instead. If Stannis won as Littlefinger predicted, Littlefinger could've continued his plans immediately instead of fighting the Boltons instead. It seems more like a waste of time to me.

As for Jon, I agree it wouldn't have made a difference, but we needed to see it. Really the first thing after coming to Castle Black should've been rounding everyone up and telling them about what happened in Hardhome because all Thorne and the other mutineers saw was the Lord Commander coming back with a host of wildlings having lost many of his own men.

Sansa and Reek atm

lmao at Zigra's sig though, King Balon winner of the War of the 5 kings

Man just rustled the North and waited until everyone killed each other.