CL R16: Shakhtar Donetsk vs FC Bayern München

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Post by farfan Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:33 pm

izzy wrote:
farfan wrote:" mad pressing " wasn't exactly a  Pep thing.
Dortmund  and Bayern pressed Barca and Real into oblivion in 2013.

" not parking the bus " is a Pep influence now ? Laughing


"Oblivion?"

We lost the tie 4-3...... Laughing give us a break.


i was mostly thinking of the first leg and how Madrid were totally helpless against  Dortmund's pressing Laughing .

you can easily credit Dortmund and Bayern for that BC .

2 german coached bundesliga  teams reaching the  CL final with a high pressing attacking style one year before the world cup ? that probably influenced Low more than anything Pep did the following year .

Pep's influence almost cost him against Algeria Laughing

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:56 pm

Yes but were those teams practicing high pressing before Pep the introduced it?
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Post by farfan Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:42 pm

pre 2008 Spain pressed very high too .

Ribery had half the field to himself from a Viera through pass even though Spain were leading 1-0.

come to think of it , Aragones doesn't get enough credit for Pep's success .
the term " tiki taka " was coined during his tenure at the national team, and he was the one who shaped that Xavi-Ineista partnership that became the cornerstone of Del bosque's team and Pep's barça .
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Post by McAgger Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:28 pm

The Spain of Euro 2008 was the most fun Spain to watch to date. Farfan is right that Aragones deserves some semblance of credit for Xavi-Iniesta.

Del Bosque is a dud. Guy has been feeding off those Aragones and Pep tactics since he took over. Useless coach.
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Post by Doc Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:52 pm

Don Vicente is very much the opposite of innovative and certainly no one would consider him any tactical genius (or tactical for that matter) but to say he is useless after winning 2 UCL titles, a WC, a Euro and a La Liga title is as bad as anything Gil would say.

And correct if/when I am wrong but Xavi's midfield partner was Senna in Euro 2008. Iniesta and Silva played inside forwards for the majority of the competition. So I probably would give Pep the credit for XavIniesta wombo combo. But the pressing part, yeah, Aragones definitely deserves serious credit for that.
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Post by farfan Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:59 pm

Doc wrote:
And correct if/when I am wrong but Xavi's midfield partner was Senna in Euro 2008. Iniesta and Silva played inside forwards for the majority of the competition. So I probably would give Pep the credit for XavIniesta wombo combo. But the pressing part, yeah, Aragones definitely deserves serious credit for that.


between 2006 and 2008 , Senna played in front of the defense .
and just in front of him a duo that usually consisted of Xavi-Iniesta or Xavi-Fabregas .

it was under Aragones that Iniesta rose to prominence .
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:52 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Seriously? What about the mad pressing, the fluid interchangeable structure, the audacity to not park the bus after reaching semis? Those were not there when Low coached the cup 4 years ago and have Pep's influence all over them. I don't think you can deny his influence, Bayern has so many Germany players that it was bound to have an effect on the team.
The fluid interchangeable structure is something we've had, or tried to have, ever since players like Özil broke through to the first team in the NT, and is something that Bayern had since the van Gaal days, and regarding the park-the-bus attitude...
Yes that's something that changed.

You all might remember the raging hate-boner I had after the 2012 and 2010 Semis where Löw each time elected to opt for the more defensive approach, which cost us each time, because it afforded our opponents too much time to attack us, but I am of the opinion that Pep is a pretty cautious coach himself, I think this is probably more a case of Löw trying to slow down the game, and going the perceived "safer" route, and getting kicked out because of it twice.

I know this is suggesting that Löw is capable of learning, but TBH his entire environment, the German press, fan base, tons of experts, were all crying for a reversion to the 4-2-3-1 with Lahm at RB - it was just painfully obvious.

And it was perfect for Löw to follow that suggestion, because if he succeeded, like he did, he adapted, no matter if it was to pressure or necessity, nobody questions a winner.
Had he lost, the experts couldn't really have slammed him for having followed their advice.

If anything, that simpleton Löw has an unbreakable admiration for Aragones' Spain, the fluid attack and interchanging, high-pressure that side employed, he's had a hard-on for that play style ever since. Even in his idiocy, I've never seen express overt admiration for the pussified version of playing keep-away that Peps Barca used, where you just defend by playing keepsies until Messi does magic. Not the least because Löw, even in his infinite idiocy, is able to grasp that we just don't have Messi.
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