CL R16: Shakhtar Donetsk vs FC Bayern München

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Post by Black&White Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:32 pm

It would be great that Shaktar eliminated these germans =D

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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:33 pm

Just watch out that you don't get eliminated by the 15th of the Bundesliga, that would be embarrassing.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:43 pm

i thought lewandowski was indispensable for all things bayern, why did not he play?
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:38 pm

I do not know the answer to that.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:35 am

Anyway, it is a bad result, and the return leg will be a nailbiter.

Let's imagine us attacking them from the go and catch a counter goal after 20 minutes lol, doesn't seem too far fetched. Then we'd be in severe trouble.

Pep should have subbed off Alonso 10 minutes before his sending off as it was clearly just a matter of time.

Or better, Pep shouldn't have started Alonso at all, after he had muscular problems and was not missed against Hamburg.

Sometimes it seems to me the more players are back and fit, the more options Pep has, the worse his starting line up decisions get lol.
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Post by Helmer Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:37 am

I dont think Lewa will survive at Bayern untill Pep is there hmm

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Post by jibers Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:56 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
farfan wrote:Xabi " i don't think tackling is a quality for a footballer " Alonso seeing red for a shit tackle again rofl


At least he didn't soil his pretty little feet with the ugly tackling game of those northern brutes, so that's a win.

Also Pep didn't need to resort to that awful attacking football he hates yet again, so it really is a win for Pep if you think about it.



Why do you dislike Pep so much? Laughing
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Post by halamadrid2 Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:59 pm

rofl

Just realised Undiano Mallenco was reffing. Must've thought FINALLY I can show this sob a red card for his reckless challenges. He would probably have gotten away with it in a Classico if Mallenco waz refereeing
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:40 pm

jibers wrote:Why do you dislike Pep so much? Laughing

Because he turned something entertaining into something boring?
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:56 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
jibers wrote:Why do you dislike Pep so much? Laughing

Because he turned something entertaining into something boring?


the Bundesliga? hmm
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:46 am

Bayern.
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Post by RealGunner Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:19 pm

Decided to watch this instead of Chelsea-PSG.

The biggest problem Bayern had, imo, was upfront. Muller was quite poor, but it wasn't his fault. He isn't an out n out striker and struggled to perform. Most attacks were ruined by him and he should have scored at least one goal.

Robben and Ribery were the most(and only) dangerous players and Shakhtar managed to survive 90 minutes by mostly focusing on them as they knew there was no other threat in the team. I don't know what's going on with Goetze. He either isn't playing in his proper role, or he suffers for inconsistent performances. With his talent, he should be talked about in the same breath as with the likes of Hazard, Wilshere, Neymar etc. But he doesn't seem to have any type of role under Pep.

Alonso and bastian can't play together unless they have Martinez in the same midfield. Trust me, I have tried on fifa and the best combination I've found was Thiago-Bastian-Goetze.

Bayern should still win this because Shakthar were quite poor despite being at home and Bayern will score at least 2 at the Allianz. However Pep needs to sort it out before they face Monaco in quarters.

on a related note, is it me or Bayern have a poor bench? There is hardly anyone you would bring on to change the game. It really sucks on fifa specially. Bayern could do with a pacy player. Shame Shaqiri decided to leave.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:55 pm

Yes, the biggest problem was missing quality in front of goal and with the final passes.
So often Müller and Robben seemed allergic to finishing and instead made bad and clumsy layoffs or misplaced the last pass.

I do have a very bad feeling for the return leg though, as it's a bad result, they got us right where they want us.

I'm a bit pissed off that this problem isn't being adressed tbh, we're always set up perfectly, get into the final third easily and then don't manage to play it out for a good finishing.

Also, I get the feeling, we play with drive and intensity for 5 minutes in the beginning, the players start ot think that they can create chances easily (since we get one after a minute) and then take a gear out, while forgetting we haven't scored the much needed first goal yet.

The opponents then settle in and park their bus, and with less determination and speed we're much more easily defended.
Then after a while we get frustrated and the attacks get more stereotypical and less creative.
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Post by jibers Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:56 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Yes, the biggest problem was missing quality in front of goal and with the final passes.
So often Müller and Robben seemed allergic to finishing and instead made bad and clumsy layoffs or misplaced the last pass.

I do have a very bad feeling for the return leg though, as it's a bad result, they got us right where they want us.

I'm a bit pissed off that this problem isn't being adressed tbh, we're always set up perfectly, get into the final third easily and then don't manage to play it out for a good finishing.

Also, I get the feeling, we play with drive and intensity for 5 minutes in the beginning, the players start ot think that they can create chances easily (since we get one after a minute) and then take a gear out, while forgetting we haven't scored the much needed first goal yet.

The opponents then settle in and park their bus, and with less determination and speed we're much more easily defended.
Then after a while we get frustrated and the attacks get more stereotypical and less creative.


Pep doesn't have Messito bail him out anymore.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:05 pm

well Robben bails us out a lot, but it's frustrating because we outplay the teams until 12 meters in front of goal and then the quality drops significantly.
It all depends whether we happen to score a goal early, if we do we usually play better in an instant.
Götze, I don't know, he had some great games and he's doing good more or less, but I think he's actually not that very great player.
Or let's put it that way, he's by far not influential enough to be starring in the kind of 'elite' team we try to tell us we are.

Lewandowski needs to step us his goal threat too, his all around game is fantastic but he's not been much of a goal threat so far, and if then missed quite some sitters.

Oh well, Dortmund scrubs.
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Post by jibers Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:10 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:well Robben bails us out a lot, but it's frustrating because we outplay the teams until 12 meters in front of goal and then the quality drops significantly.
It all depends whether we happen to score a goal early, if we do we usually play better in an instant.
Götze, I don't know, he had some great games and he's doing good more or less, but I think he's actually not that very great player.
Or let's put it that way, he's by far not influential enough to be starring in the kind of 'elite' team we try to tell us we are.

Lewandowski needs to step us his goal threat too, his all around game is fantastic but he's not been much of a goal threat so far, and if then missed quite some sitters.

Oh well, Dortmund scrubs.


Meh, Peps tactics force this on you. The guy is too negative. He pins opposition back and limits the space your players have as well. Bayern can't counter as effectively as they used to. Gotze needs consistent playing time and he needs to play in his actual favoured position, which doesn't exist in Peps system. There is literally no chance for him to express himself at all.

Pep is van Gaal's heir as far as I'm concerned. Lewa has never been clinical, but now he gets far less service than he did at BVB and has no room to operate. Not eveyone has Xavi, Iniesta and Messi's freak close control. Gotze is wasted at Bayern and would have developed much better had he remained at BVB.

Tbf to Pep, if I had a cb like Boateg, I would probably want the ball as far away from my own goal as possible Laughing
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:15 pm

Nah it's not that easy. It's all about intensity and concentration.

If we play full throttle the tactics are just the best.

By that I mean, play full throttle until we have a goal, however long it takes.
Then there's nothing better than having 80% of the ball, crowd the opponents half, let them chase and get the ball back as soon as you lose it, it's fantastic.

Also, Pep has changed the build up significantly from last season, now it's actually much more direct.
At least, that's how we start, with fast vertical passes (watch the first couple of minutes of the Shakhtar game), but then the players go into control mode without having scored.
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Post by jibers Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:18 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Nah it's not that easy. It's all about intensity and concentration.

If we play full throttle the tactics are just the best.

By that I mean, play full throttle until we have a goal, however long it takes.
Then there's nothing better than having 80% of the ball, crowd the opponents half, let them chase and get the ball back as soon as you lose it, it's fantastic.

Also, Pep has changed the build up significantly from last season, now it's actually much more direct.
At least, that's how we start, with fast vertical passes (watch the first couple of minutes of the Shakhtar game), but then the players go into control mode without having scored.


I agree. TBH Pep's tactics are pretty advanced. When people said that he will come to United, I just lauhed and asked them if they could imagine Fellaini trying t grasp the intricacies of his positional play Laughing

Well at least now you guys have to win.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:21 pm

Also, Mr jibers, one more of those and you have a problem with me, Sir.
You know what I'm talking about.
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Post by farfan Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:27 pm

Pep making center forwards look like shit, what else is new ?
while heynckes managed to make that scrub Gomez look like a world class forward, even hitting double digits in the CL .
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Post by jibers Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:28 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Also, Mr jibers, one more of those and you have a problem with me, Sir.
You know what I'm talking about.


How highly do you rate him? Serious question.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:29 pm

Very, very, very highly.
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Post by jibers Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:34 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Very, very, very highly.


Why? He is too clumsy and rash. He is more Ramos than Ramos if that is even possible. Difference is he lacks goals so he has no redeeming factor. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. He has cost you against Bayern two years on the trot from his awful defending.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:39 pm

No one seems to be mentioning this but Pep basically built this Bayern aside around Thiago. They literally have nobody else who helps link the play between Schweinsteiger and the attacking players and who knows exactly how to transition from midfield to attack.

They looked good last year when he actually played, I still believe they would have won the CL if he stayed fit not so much because he's some grand saviour or anything but they have no one else like him.

It balances the whole team and helps everyone seamlessly into their roles, it simply doesn't work without him because there is no alternative.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:42 pm

Cost Bayern?

Lol, the last 2 seasons were the 2 record defensive years in Bundesliga history. In one of them we won the treble, then a double with, both with record low goals conceded.
Not to mention we're on track to beat the record of 2013.
We went unbeaten in the Bundesliga with 4 goals conceded until Wolfsburg, and he was beasting all the whole first half season.
Until Wolfsburg with Boateng starting we were 50+ games unbeaten.
He was more or less the best player on the pitch in the frigging World Cup final, saving Hummels ass against Messi and cleaning up everything in overtime.
And on top of that his build up play has exploded this season, where he makes these fast vertical passes. Have you seen the Dortmund game in fall?

Lol.

He's like the Benzema of defenders, playing at a consistent high level for a top team over years, winning everything, but every clown on an internet forums for some reason thinks it's casually adequate to call him a scub without any accountability.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:50 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
He was more or less the best player on the pitch in the frigging World Cup final, saving Hummels ass.


I have to jump in here because it's not quite fully true, well he did but only because Hummels was covering for Hoewedes who was all over the place due to being a CB at LB.

It started an entire domino effect which led to everyone covering for each other lol, even the RB( can't remember who it was)  was constantly covering for Boateng.

Luckily Argentina for some baffling reason took Lavezzi off because they were getting constant joy with the whole back 4 out of place.
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