The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

Everything Dani says is true but I still prefer LMA to Griffin personally.

But both are better than Love IMO and Davis while has the game and the potential hasn't proven to be better than any of them yet.


But at end of the day when it really matters I still would prefer Duncan and Dirk above them all.

I think Love is #1 right now, it's not just stat padding on a good team.. He's actually pretty fuxking dominant (on offense at least).. It's a toss up between Blake and Aldridge but I would take Blake..

In b4 Bosh destroys all of them this year

Pretty sure the majority in the thread pretty much agreed about 6 months ago that Love isn't number 1 because never making the playoffs and being meh when it mattered in reg season.

What changed? He's playing with Lebron now?

He's still got a hell of a lot to prove IMO, as for Bosh anyone see his quotes the other day about that he's apparently going to be playing a lot more in the post now?

I'll be interested to see that.

He never made the playoffs because his team was shit and he's in the West

It wasn't always and in any case that doesn't excuse Phoenix having a better record than them.

It also doesn't excuse 7 eastern conference teams having a better record than them and the only one who didn't was Atlanta and the only reason they didn't was Horford's injury.

Hell *bleep* Charlotte with Al Jefferson as it's best player had a better record, it's very easy to blame Minnesota but it's quite clear he has a lot things to prove.

But we all know that I just find it funny how he's now no 1 suddenly when he wasn't before because he joined Lebron.

I do believe Love is the best tbh.

I dont know about Leswagg's reasoning but I you guys know I have zero pro Lebron agenda

The reason is he is too dominant on the boards, best passer from the 4 spot, has 3 point range, scores inside and is basically the most prolific scorer of the lot. He is also the hardest to stop IMO because he doesnt rely on overpowering people (Griffin), doesnt rely on his jumper working (LMA) and is able to create his own shot and even if he cant, grab the offensive board and score inside. Basically he doesnt need to have the ball to be prolific and when he does have the ball he can score in a variety of ways too. His D is horrible and I said before and say now, if LMA or Blake were better on that end it would tip the scale on their favour.

The fact he didnt make the playoffs dont mean anything to me tbh. The Wolves are a better team than they appear, but they had too many injuries (Rubio, Pek both missed huge chunks of the season when they were trying to make a push at the end) and anyway the roster doesnt fit together.

Pek is an un-athletic inside scorer who cant protect the rim and Rubio cant shoot. That's their best 2 pieces and neither fit next to Love well.

Despite that, I 100% believed that if there had the easier Eastern conference schedule they would do better.

I've always rated him #1 though?? I don't know who came to the consensus he wasn't over here but I never did..

Neither Blake nor LMA are defensive stoppers so I'm just going with the best one way player who I believe to be Love

Besides it would be better for a LeBron fan to say he isn't #1 so that if they flop and people say 'LeBron had the best PF in the game and still lost', you can disagree

I dunno Leswagg, I really dont remember what everyone said before.

I more or less agree with your reasoning. None of those guys are defensive stoppers so it comes down to rebounding and offence and I think Love shades it due to versatility and range.

If Davis becomes the offensive player LMA is, he takes it. But I think he needs to get a bit stronger still. I see him on his drives still get knocked off balance and forced into taking floaters and layups when with some others it would be fouls and dunks.

Dunno I seem to recall that when we discussed PFs before that a lot didn't have Love as number 1.

I recall Zealous did but that's about it, I might be wrong but that's what I remember.

Anyway the reason I never had him no 1 was the criteria, looking purely at impact on games and there's quite a few above him personally.

Same goes for Davis, I still see despite the fact his boards are dropped dramatically that Dirk has a far bigger impact on games outside of raw stats especially in close games.

When it truly matters he can turn losses into wins that Love and Davis simply have not shown the ability to do so as of yet. Yes it can be argued Dallas have better coaching and players but put Love on that Dallas team and they don't make the playoffs.

They certainly don't scare the living daylights out of the Spurs in a 7 game series, there's lots of things to be considered here such as skillset, raw stats etc.

But the ability to win games when your team truly needs it is something I'd consider also, in some cases you don't even need to score a load of points to have that impact.

When I say "best" I can't just look at the skillset and the numbers and ignore the rest personally, if I say Love is the best because he has the numbers and skillset. I'd be ignoring the fact that in all likelihood i doubt he would outperform Griffin if you put him in the Clippers when it truly mattered, Duncan in the finals or LMA for Portland.

I don't believe any of those teams have better record with Love or go deeper in the playoffs with Love so IMO he's below those players and same goes for Davis.

If it was just about skillset and what numbers he can get I'd probably agree but my criteria is different.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
What changed?  He's playing with Lebron now?  

This is it lol

Never got his team to the playoffs once. Dominant numbers, yep. Dominant, nah.

Plenty of PF's in the past had much worse teams and still got them to the playoffs, namely the last great PF Minny had.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Hell *bleep* Charlotte with Al Jefferson as it's best player had a better record, it's very easy to blame Minnesota but it's quite clear he has a lot things to prove.

It's crazy how quick Charlotte turned around tbh.

They won 8 games two years ago. Clifford was an incredible hire and MJ finally hit a home run with Kemba. Who I think deserves a lotta credit for turning that franchise around. Not just because of his on court play but the dude is just a winner. And Al doesn't sign there without him.

I'm really looking forward to Charlotte this season as it goes.

Kemba Lance MKG random PF and Jefferson should be a fun team.

MJ deserves props tbh, especially considering how shit the decisions he was making before were.

The success thing doesnt work with me.

Because if Griffin and Love switched places, I cant believe the Clippers fail the make the playoffs and/or the Wolves do. I dont think anything would change, the Clippers would be just as good and the Wolves just as bad.

So its not ignoring the rest so to speak, its simply trying to play hypothetical, which is obviously hard. I have no idea what would happen in a playoff series if Love was there instead of Griffin...no idea at all.

I dont get why he is below Griffin if he cant improve the Clippers in this hypothetical situation though...why is that? If they both do the same results, then I dont see why that automatically means Love is lower.

I think team success is that, team.

The Franchise wrote:I do believe Love is the best tbh.

I dont know about Leswagg's reasoning but I you guys know I have zero pro Lebron agenda

The reason is he is too dominant on the boards, best passer from the 4 spot, has 3 point range, scores inside and is basically the most prolific scorer of the lot. He is also the hardest to stop IMO because he doesnt rely on overpowering people (Griffin), doesnt rely on his jumper working (LMA) and is able to create his own shot and even if he cant, grab the offensive board and score inside. Basically he doesnt need to have the ball to be prolific and when he does have the ball he can score in a variety of ways too. His D is horrible and I said before and say now, if LMA or Blake were better on that end it would tip the scale on their favour.

The fact he didnt make the playoffs dont mean anything to me tbh. The Wolves are a better team than they appear, but they had too many injuries (Rubio, Pek both missed huge chunks of the season when they were trying to make a push at the end) and anyway the roster doesnt fit together.

Pek is an un-athletic inside scorer who cant protect the rim and Rubio cant shoot. That's their best 2 pieces and neither fit next to Love well.

Despite that, I 100% believed that if there had the easier Eastern conference schedule they would do better.

I don't think with Love in place of LMA they beat Houston last year.

And he's a dominant defensive rebounder, not offensive. Not top 10 in that category.

Yeah sure Aldridge relies on his jump shot, but he can create his own at will. Even with that considered he shot a higher % from the field than Love. Not just last season but career wise. Love's a career 45% shooter(which is rather poor for any PF), LMA 49%. His back to the basket game is better too.

Love relies on his jumpshot just as much and not of his own creation. Spot up. Basically he'll play the Bosh stand around the 3pt line role with the Cavs.

Love had a good year defensively compared to his previous, but Aldridge is still quite a bit better imo. Aldridge can guard centers for long periods and protect the rim at an adequate rate. Love's 57% allowed at the rim is absolutely awful(PG's like Kyle Lowry did better) and will show up this season with the Cavs having even less of a defensive center than Pek/Dieng.

It's very close but I'm going with LMA for putting up those stats on a team that was top 3 in the West for most of the season. He was on everyone's mid season MVP watch. But that was last season, and with Love on the Cavs that could definitely change.

Thats probably true, but LMA had all time great level series..that was Barkley, Malone, Duncan level stuff..not something he could repeat for longer than a series.

Love isnt a dominant offensive rebounder, thats true. But thats because he is on the 3 point line more and more..you cant really have both.

LMA does shoot a higher % but Love shoots the 3 so thats not much of a surprise to me.

Love shoots the spot up sure, but I dont agree he cant create his own. He has step back moves, I seen him create the 3 off 1 dribble.

I dont think LMA or Love can hang their hat on defence, the difference to me is so minimal and neither are good so I dont even bother on that end.

Love to me is just harder to stop generally because what he does so hard to defend against. Its really hard to defend 4's shooting 3's, its even harder defending them if they can pump fake and 1 dribble into a 3. Its really hard to defend a guy who can get the offensive rebound (albeit at a lower rate than he might do) and put it back. I mean who do you guard Love with in an ideal situation?

Small guys cant stop him inside or on the glass and the big guys cant stop him on the 3 point line.

If I were to use Griffin as an example. Ibaka cant stop Blake but I seen him give him some big time trouble because he is almost as strong and just as quick. Put Ibaka on him and your defence still functions overall. He can guard him, still close enough to help at the rim, put him in the pick and roll and he can still bother people around the paint area.

Put Ibaka on Love and you pull him 6 feet+ further from the rim, so you open up your entire offence more when you put elite guys on Love. The same with Noah, someone who I think could give Love hell...but then your pulling him away from the rim too far.

Love's extra 6+ of range makes it harder to stop him and still keep your defensive principles.

Im not normally a fan of these big guys shooting 3, but when they rebound and play physical generally...your getting alot of value there.

Gonna agree to disagree.

I think can we agree that if you are picking either for your team, there's a going to be a different answer depending on roster(age aside).

Andre Drummond/Dwight Howard type center? Both would work but Love would definitely be the better choice.

Brook Lopez, Big Al types, I'll take Aldridge.

Griffins right there but I personally have him 3rd.

If he improves like he did two seasons ago to last season, he can easily become best.

In fact, he will be the best PF in the league by the end of the season.

dmize wrote:Gonna agree to disagree.

I think can we agree that if you are picking either for your team, there's a going to be a different answer depending on roster(age aside).

Andre Drummond/Dwight Howard type center? Both would work but Love would definitely be the better choice.

Brook Lopez, Big Al types, I'll take Aldridge.

Id agree with that, thats a fair statement.

Haven't been here in some time.....

Now that the media days are taken place, which players do you guys feel have a lot to prove this year?
For me;

1. Chris Paul: I wouldn't say he's overrated, but the way he's talked about, you would think that there is no other PG in his class and that he lights the rest of them up when he's on the court, which couldn't be far from the truth. BIG year for him imo.

2. Carmelo Anthony: I'm a (Big) critic, so this may come off as harsh. The dude is being celebrated for signing a max deal with the Knicks AFTER opting out and saying ALL season long that he wants to win NOW and that if the Knicks need him to take a pay cut, he will. Just ridiculous imo. A style over substance type of player who I believe gets way too much praise for his inefficient game.

3. Derrick Rose: I know the Fiba WC ain't much and he ain't really played in 2 years, but I gotta  see something that makes me believe he's ready to go this year.

4. Deron Williams: His numbers, his game last year and his contract should be enough.

5. Howard + Harden: One needs to improve on his very limited offensive game and the other needs a new heart. His defense is just disgusting.

6. Lamarcus Aldridge: A personal one. I would like to see him play a smarter game this year. He settles for J's way too much imo for someone who is a OK Jump shooter. I would like to see more posts up and him to play more closer to the basket.

Those are just some.

On Rose it's the same as before really, his athleticism and quickness hasn't really changed.

It's still there surprisingly, what isn't there is the skill. He is very rusty skills wise, it was exactly how it was before he broke down last season.

He just needs to stay healthy really, it will take time but if he can stay on the court eventually the skills will come back.

izzy wrote:Haven't been here in some time.....

Now that the media days are taken place, which players do you guys feel have a lot to prove this year?
For me;

1. Chris Paul: I wouldn't say he's overrated, but the way he's talked about, you would think that there is no other PG in his class and that he lights the rest of them up when he's on the court, which couldn't be far from the truth. BIG year for him imo.

2. Carmelo Anthony: I'm a (Big) critic, so this may come off as harsh. The dude is being celebrated for signing a max deal with the Knicks AFTER opting out and saying ALL season long that he wants to win NOW and that if the Knicks need him to take a pay cut, he will. Just ridiculous imo. A style over substance type of player who I believe gets way too much praise for his inefficient game.

3. Derrick Rose: I know the Fiba WC ain't much and he ain't really played in 2 years, but I gotta  see something that makes me believe he's ready to go this year.

4. Deron Williams: His numbers, his game last year and his contract should be enough.

5. Howard + Harden: One needs to improve on his very limited offensive game and the other needs a new heart. His defense is just disgusting.

6. Lamarcus Aldridge: A personal one. I would like to see him play a smarter game this year. He settles for J's way too much imo for someone who is a OK Jump shooter. I would like to see more posts up and him to play more closer to the basket.

Those are just some.

Interesting list but all those guys minus Rose, to me I feel I know what to expect from them and I have relatively low expectations for.

Howard and Harden are flawed players and will remain flawed. Howard after a decade is who he is and wont change. Less peices for him as the Rockets had a bad off season simply equals more excuses why he hasnt "done it". Harden is at least still young, but I dont see him trying any harder on defence this season because he already believes he is great and with less offensive peices this year he going to get the more leeway to slack off.

CP3 already I talked about extensively on here already. I dont rate him like most people do. Undisputed best point guard and 3 best player in the game status are shocking to me.

Williams is done. That time when he was on Paul's level is gone, call it too many injuries, call it needed the Jazz offence, but if he couldnt even get it going under his idol J-Kidd last year..im not sure what hope there is for him.

Im good with LMA. I did say he shoots too many jumpers, but for me is he playing above the level I expected him from him (overall). To think there was a time he was considered being the 3rd wheel to Oden and Roy. I feel he has come a long way, even though he was always a good player.

Melo is so polarizing. I am one of his fans, think he is a great player and he just needs an actual offence around him. The freelance crap under Woodson will always go against him because if others arent hitting shots or making plays then he will take it over in the only way he can...ISO, rinse and repeat. I believe the triangle will be great for him and I think the Knicks will do better than their average roster suggests it should.


The players I want to see prove something;

Durant - Said it before, will say it again. Needs to take over this team and stop being a softy and allowing Westbrook to go on wreck less solo missions. Westbrook isnt his equal and he needs to stop allowing him to think he is. Brooks doesnt help him AT ALL but this is his career, he cant spend it all waiting for someone to fix problems for him. Shame he doesnt even see the problem.


Hibbert - I think he is already at the crucial point. Which was is he going to go? Will he be the guy from last postseason or the guy from the Heat series the year before. Its up to him, but without Lance and George he has no reason not to get the ball and be the anchor of the team.


Thibodeau - Great coach but he has made miracles when he had little talent. But does he have some Hiddink about him? Over achieving with small parts and gets a ton of credit for it, but when he has all the peices, doesnt do the hardest thing and bring the team to the next level. If Rose plays the season, I dont see why they arent in the Eastern finals at the very least. Has a ton of bigs with various skills, has defensive wings and has enough viable scorers to put next to Rose. Needs to not run players into the ground during the season, no excuse with the depth they have.


Bradly Beal - I know he is still a really young guy with alot of time left. But I expect him to take a jump this season and become an all star contender. The Wizards have a good unit and with Pierce and Andre Miller he has vets to learn alot from. Such a great shooter shooting 42% isnt acceptable.

Chandler Parsons - A different kind of expectation here. He got a big contract, but does he realise he is still a role player and Ellis and Dirk are the guys on that Mavs team. Want to see if he knows how to stay in his lane.

Thibs only really had all the pieces in 2011, then they ran into Bron and healthy Wade.. Can't really ask for much there

I know, he didnt have the peices. What I am saying is he has had the "excuse" which is a legit one to not do anything in the playoffs because of injuries/not having good enough players.

Hard to make that case now, they have a ton of depth. There is zero reason to overplay anyone into injuries/late season fatigue and they have good scorers and Noah already proved they can run the offence without Rose.

Ah I see.. If Rose reaches his old form I think they make the Finals

Unless Cleveland turns out to be great defensively right away

I think if they dont make the Eastern finals, its a failure.

If they lose to the Cavs, wouldnt hold it against them. The Cavs may not have a strong D but really all they have to do is find "average" and they stand a chance.

Problem with the Bulls is despite how loaded their bigs are, that outside of Rose their guardplay is poor and even he is liable to turning it over at a high rate.

Not to mention the publicised problems they have on the wing, I think if Rose is healthy they beat Cleveland but they have too many weaknesses to go further.