Re: World Cup FINAL: Germany vs Argentina discussion

by rwo power Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:10 pm

RealGunner wrote:if Messi wants it, he will get it.

I just stumbled over a nice quote by Jean-Paul Sartre which is nicely fitting here: "In football everything is complicated by the presence of the opposite team."

by Le Samourai Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:28 pm

If Argentina wins, there will be blood. Straight up. Brasilia, which is supposed to be pretty damn gentrified was on the verge of huge fights. Argentina travelling fanbase is trolling hard everywhere they go, it's a scene.

Good Luck to those who dare to go to Copacabana and the Maracana on Sunday.

by elitedam Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:44 pm

It might be even worse if Argentina loses. I don't think their fans will go home quietly.

by Adit Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:48 pm

Argentina winning will be like Pakistan winning Cricket world cup in India....unthinkable. Players will be for ever crucified until they leave the country Laughing

by El Gunner Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:58 pm

1-1 after normal time.
Argentina to grab one on a counter attack after the Germans go in search of a winner in ET.

by VivaStPauli Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:11 pm

Okay, just so I can have my prediction out there, in case it actually happens:

Very tight match, with both teams sitting incredibly deep, similar to the Argentina-Netherlands match; both unwilling to open up.
Messi will be utterly marked out of the match, with Argentina in turn clogging the midfield up hard, making it nearly impossible to release the speedy Özil and Müller with precise passes.

At the end of the first half, Müller receives the ball in mid-sprint from a neat Kroos finish, and gets axed in the box by Demichelis, Rizzoli wrongly does not give a penalty, though he does give a corner.
Kroos circles the ball neatly onto the head of the onrushing Klose, who scores the matches first goal in the 43rd minute.

After that Argentina do not open up, having been warned from the Brazil match what that might do, and also not wanting to repeat the 4-0 thumping in 2010, so they sit deep, still, waiting patiently, until finally, they get the opportunity to go level in the 64th minute. Mascherano releases Messi with a diagonal ball, who dribbles past Schweinsteiger and Höwedes, before being tackled by Boateng. The clearance, however, lands straight at Lavezzis feet who fires straight past the onrushing Lahm and Hummels, leaving Neuer no chance to parry.

Argentina go level.

Though immediately after the kick-off, the Germans unleash Schürrle on the left flank, who cuts the ball inside sharply from the byline, where Schweinsteiger flicks the ball towards the penalty spot, tunneling Demichelis, where the onrushing Müller converts, while tripping, awkwardly with the tip of his left boot.

After that, Germany cynically run down the clock for the last 30 minutes, which results in Gago getting sent off after he spits into Khediras hair, Germany win the world cup, Brazil erects a massive Müller statue, thankful that Argentina have been stopped.

The end.

by rwo power Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:37 pm

Müller versus Messi in numbers

Spoiler:

Source: http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/y=2014/m=7/news=muller-versus-messi-in-numbers-2403705.html

by Robespierre Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:24 pm

of course I will support Argentina for many reasons , definitely less rivalry, it wouldn't reach us for title won unlike of Germany , they've Inter players too (although benchers) . Anyway if Germany wins it's okay, it would be one of most deserved victories ever tbh.

by RealGunner Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:51 pm

According to @GoalArgentina, Angel Di Maria pulled up in pain after his final training session, and will not start in the final.

https://i.imgur.com/R96bVyk.png

by Beautiful Football Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:37 pm

Sabella Should call former Italian Coach and player for some tips to beat Germany, after all Italian are German antidote. It will make things easier for Argentina and greater chance of wining the world cup. :coffee:

by Raptorgunner Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:57 pm

Germany.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152542989884556&fref=nf

by Cruijf Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:22 am

Raptorgunner wrote:Germany.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152542989884556&fref=nf

Dead.

by dostoevsky Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:45 am

Beautiful Football wrote:Sabella Should call former Italian Coach and player for some tips to beat Germany, after all Italian are German antidote. It will make things easier for Argentina and greater chance of wining the world cup.

Napolitano should just award Italian citizenship to the entire squad before the match, that should do the trick :coffee:

messixaviesta wrote:dost, great post. I agree almost completely. Comebacks are what is needed to set the world cup alight in the later stages and that has been sadly missing in this world cup. Some of the key matches have almost completely depended on which side scores first just as you said. In fact the side scoring first in the final will have one hand on the trophy so to say. In previous world cups as in club football a one goal lead can often mean nothing but in this world cup a one goal lead is like the match almost won. If one team goes behind this being a world cup final they should give everything to get an equalizer but then they wouldn't want to be disgraced like the Brazil 1-7 either. So will they still be cautious? Maybe a bit of both sentiments will dominate their actions at that point.

The Cruyff parallel is coming to my mind a bit too often. If Messi ends up on the losing side then it will become the reality. However Cruyff played in only one world cup and he was the outstanding player of that world cup while as far as Messi is concerned you just need to skim through the various posts to realize that the opinion is very mixed as to how brilliant he has been in this tournament. So I can see a Messi defeat as clearly inferior to Cruyff's. A Messi victory though takes him ahead to a pedestal with Pele and Maradona. That may sound funny but the difference between winning and losing is that huge in football as in life.

For long I have been drawing the parallel with Maradona 1986 but one poster on this forum said something that I have been unable to forget. He said this is not Maradona 1986 but Maradona 1990. Messi has not been as brilliant as Maradona was in 1986. Instead he has been more like Maradona 1990 - decisive in key moments and inspiring a very average team to move ahead not just with the goals and creations but also the confidence that his presence gives to the entire team, all this while not being fully fit and not really playing like the magical footballer we know him to be. However only the result can actually decide this. It's 86 or 90 but which one we will only know at the end of the world cup final.

Thanks jd. Whilst the 7-1 blowout might be seen as a warning for those opening up to chase a game, it remains a freak result that I do not think teams will pay great attention to. Brazil's approach from the very start was fundamentally flawed which exacerbated the effects of conceding. Even so, the lack of leadership and composure displayed by a team which had not yet been asked to respond to adversity against a top side before was unusual. This Argentina side has also not yet had to deal with the pressures of being behind against strong opposition, however I do not think the team will deviate from their game plan unless time begins to run out. I think we are more likely to see a game such as Germany had in the quarter final against France in which both sides risked little and Deschamps waited until deep into the second half before trying his hand.

As for the issue of Maradona's World Cup performances, I personally do not consider it a deal breaker however many are invested in the argument of who is the greatest of all time. What would truly be more demonstrative of a player's qualities? To have Messi score a brilliant brace and dominate the game but end up on the losing side or to score a penalty to win the World Cup in a game in which others starred? Even in 1986, it can be argued that Maradona's impact was at its greatest early on in the tournament as he was relatively fatigued by the end of the tournament, having done so much to get Argentina to the final. I think it's a reasonable assessment to venture that Messi will never have another opportunity such as this to shine at international level though. To defeat a German side that is now riding upon incredible hype, the nemesis of Maradona's days and in the home of their arch rivals would be a very poetic way to replicate Maradona's achievement and enhance his own legacy.

Also viva's description of a likely Mueller winner is hilariously accurate. Laughing

by Onyx Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:40 am

Romero WC stats:

by Valkyrja Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:28 am

If Ozil performs, Germany will win.

by junkyard Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:42 am

Valkyrja wrote:If Ozil performs, Germany will win.

But Germany had won without Oezil's any noteworthy performance.

by Valkyrja Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:43 am

junkyard wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:If Ozil performs, Germany will win.

But Germany had won without Oezil's any noteworthy performance.

I didn't say that they won't win without him at his best. But if he performs, I'm pretty sure that they'll win

by VivaStPauli Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:01 am

dostoevsky wrote:
Also viva's description of a likely Mueller winner is hilariously accurate.

I am but a humble prophet.

by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:42 am

Viva I'm wondering how you're accounting for Argentina to play Pastore. Will the Argentine FA send a charter flight to Paris to pick him up?

by VivaStPauli Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:44 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Viva I'm wondering how you're accounting for Argentina to play Pastore. Will the Argentine FA send a charter flight to Paris to pick him up?

Heh, I just came into the thread to correct that. I meant to type Gago, dunno why I ended up writing Pastore instead.

by messixaviesta Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:39 am

Robespierre wrote:of course I will support Argentina for many reasons , definitely less rivalry, it wouldn't reach us for title won unlike of Germany , they've Inter players too (although benchers) . Anyway if Germany wins it's okay, it would be one of most deserved victories ever tbh.

I thought the same think a few days back that if Germany win this world cup they go ahead of Italy to #2 in the all time football world order because other than on the number of stars Germany was already ahead of Italy in every other way.

Yes if Germany wins it's it will be one of the most deserving victories in world cups ever - maybe the best since Argentina 1986 which is so ironic.

by Glory Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:44 am

Important thing will be prevent them from scoring early. if we can somehow restrict them to a 0-0 at half time. we can win it.

by messixaviesta Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:45 am

dostoevsky wrote:Thanks jd. Whilst the 7-1 blowout might be seen as a warning for those opening up to chase a game, it remains a freak result that I do not think teams will pay great attention to. Brazil's approach from the very start was fundamentally flawed which exacerbated the effects of conceding. Even so, the lack of leadership and composure displayed by a team which had not yet been asked to respond to adversity against a top side before was unusual. This Argentina side has also not yet had to deal with the pressures of being behind against strong opposition, however I do not think the team will deviate from their game plan unless time begins to run out. I think we are more likely to see a game such as Germany had in the quarter final against France in which both sides risked little and Deschamps waited until deep into the second half before trying his hand.

As for the issue of Maradona's World Cup performances, I personally do not consider it a deal breaker however many are invested in the argument of who is the greatest of all time. What would truly be more demonstrative of a player's qualities? To have Messi score a brilliant brace and dominate the game but end up on the losing side or to score a penalty to win the World Cup in a game in which others starred? Even in 1986, it can be argued that Maradona's impact was at its greatest early on in the tournament as he was relatively fatigued by the end of the tournament, having done so much to get Argentina to the final. I think it's a reasonable assessment to venture that Messi will never have another opportunity such as this to shine at international level though. To defeat a German side that is now riding upon incredible hype, the nemesis of Maradona's days and in the home of their arch rivals would be a very poetic way to replicate Maradona's achievement and enhance his own legacy.

dost, great reply. I agree largely with everything you said. The only point that I question is Maradona's impact in 1986. As far as I am aware his best performances came in the quarters and semis. In the final he was a little subdued as I remember reading he was man marked by Lothar Matthaus but even then he created the winning goal.

That last line that I have made bold is a clincher. When does one ever get the chance to get the better of both Germany and Brazil in such a big way in one match???

by messixaviesta Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:48 am

Lumiere_Blanche wrote:Important thing will be prevent them from scoring early. if we can somehow restrict them to a 0-0 at half time. we can win it.

As I said before I think whichever team scores first will have one hand on the cup.

by Onyx Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:09 am

Muller vs Messi:

by junkyard Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:05 am

Did Pele give any prediction for this match? I would feel much relaxed if he had opted for Germany!

by Sponsored content

Who will win?