Re: World Cup FINAL: Germany vs Argentina discussion

by Ganso Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:32 am

i would actually cheer for Argentina in this match if it was in another WC for South America's sake,but due to circumstances i can't.

got to say Argentina might give Germany some trouble as I can see them playing defensive football and counter attacking with Di Maria and Messi.They aren't going to attack and give space like we did.

also,one interesting stat:10 Euro x SA finals, 7 SA wins

by Katy Perry Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:35 am

Argentina is going to play very cautious after Germany display against Brazil and this will limit their attackers. I expect the match to go on penalties with Germany winning.
Every team that had penalty shoot out and therefore gave a chance to prepare the opponent eventually lost the next one.

by LeSwagg James Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:15 am

Messi can actually win the World Cup here.. The son of bitxh might actually do it Proud

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:17 am

Di Stefano is a GOAT and never got to a final.

Cruyff is a GOAT and only got 2nd place.

Messi doesn't need it, and probably won't get it, but if he does in Brazilian territory that's the stuff of legend Proud

by RealGunner Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:18 am

<-------------------------

by LeSwagg James Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:27 am

If Argentina wins the final, I wouldn't have a problem with people calling him the GOAT..

If he puts on a great performance after what Germany just did, he should be the undisputed GOAT..

Only because injuries ruined R9 though :coffee:

by Peccadillo Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:35 am

I picked Argentina pre-tourney and I'm not backing out now.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:40 am

Anyone know which country will wear the home colours?

by BarcaLearning Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:47 am

Argentina is still underrated, even after getting to the final. Germany wont repeat their Brazil game 'performance' since it was a one off incident where Brazil just messed up completely and Germany knew exactly how to beat them, Argentina is very compact in this WC as we have seen, Germany will not have it easy at all.

But Im worried about Messi, I thought he had returned to his form, but he just increasingly seem 'pass it' in terms of his explosiveness and pace, opponents are able to stop him now and in the past they cant if you know what I mean, he justs that split second slower and less strong now. With Di Maria out probably, Messi I dont think can do it on his own. The other teammates are they abel to be the key if Messi cannot? Tahts the big question mark, Aguero is back, Palacio is decent, Lavezzi is too, Higuain....

I think Germany's only weakness is their pace defensively which does suit Argentina's fast forwards, but thats about it, other areas Germany are stronger and they are the favourites.

by BarcaLearning Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:51 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I think you're all going to be deceived in what type of match its going to be.

Yes Germany were awesome but part of it was due to how much space Brazil gave them, they never got that space all tournament and thus didn't look as good and i expect the same in the final.

What we saw tonight is a prelude to what the final will be like IMO, Argentina will limit their space as much as possible and will try to get in behind in wide areas.

Not saying Germany won't win they are definite favourites, but those expecting it to be an open game and like the Brazil game are in for a rude awakening. I'm expecting something like the 1990 WC final and those who have seen that game will probably want to not bother watching the game.

Again I say that final should have been Argentina's win by PK right? It was completely the reverse, ref gave the wrong PK and didnt give the right one that should have been awarded to Argentina. Perhaps this is justice time for Argentina Smile

by BarcaLearning Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:59 am

Beautiful Football wrote:
RED wrote:I'm still trying to decipher how this dull Argentina team made it to the World Cup final. They had nothing going forward today, nada. Clueless gameplan, and their saviour Messi had a shocker. Only lucky that they met a Dutch team knackered from playing their second extra time match.

One thing I rate about this Argentina team is their defence. Organized well and in Mascherano, they have someone playing out of his skin. He played well.

Germany have nothing to fear. Overwhelming favourites, imo.

Netherlands Parked the bus despite beating team 5-1.If Netherlands Played open game we might have seen different game. Apart from Nigeria every other team played PTB Tactics against them.
Germany are much talented team so of course they are favorite. But don't write off Argentina yet.

After watching several WCs and Euros especially one should come to learn that being defensively solid and not conceding is probably far more important than having a good attacking game with great attacknig players. No need to give examples there are just too many of those in the past teams who won these or got far by doing this... having said that Argentina until probably Belgium were up against relatively easy teams. Netherlands was the only real test imo. Belgium are inexperienced. Still, Germany have it allm, and Argentina would be worthy winners if they do it Smile

by BarcaLearning Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:13 am

Brady2Moss wrote:If Messi keeps dropping back deep into midfield, Argentina are gonna get trashed. Gotta find a way to get Messi the ball higher up the pitch.

Sabella is just another Maradona version. Clueless.

Not followed Sabella b4, but this is totally wrong. To have this Argentina defense which nobody rated pre tournament to perform like they have, top draw.

by barca 2011 Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:45 am

As strong as Germany is I think Argentina have 3 three key historical factors going for them:

1. I feel the WC will stay in SA as it has every single time it's been played there. I think that tradition will continue.

2. Germany, as well as they play every tournament have been Footballs biggest underachievers ever since 2002.

3. Messi. He hasn't had the best season but he's also never played such a big game (think about that)! He knows how to step up and I believe it's his destiny ffs!

That said Germany is still strong as sh*t and while it's not an entirely newer team than in the past they've definitely got more of a winners mentality now more than they've had in a while. Too close to call

by Babun Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:21 am

I don't think Argentine's defence was out of this world. They basically had 6 peeps intheir half all the time. Only Messi, Higuain, Lavezzi and Di Maria sub were venturing forward. The Dutch were more busy canceling out Argies than looking for scoring opportunities themselves. I was disappointed. I also overrated Dutch midfield. They're good enough to keep possession but couldn't do sh*t to create chances or be incisive upfront. I was wondering why non of Dutch/ Argies didn't ressort to Mou football. The midfield didn't yield anything anyways, might as well have hoofed the ball over.

Back to the game, Germany has got a midfield so no, we won't have a hard time against Argies. They might score a freak goal via their talented forwards but it won't be enough. Their defence will be exposed too for the first time in the tournament. Sitting back isn't enough to stop Germany, they have to go gang ho at midfield and disturb the defenders at buildup which the Dutch coped easily with. Germany does the same on much higher level.

And please stop with the choker BS. Spain were the ultimate chokers, Argies have always been chokers etc. The only true chokers I know in modern footy are England and Arsenal.

by Toffer Harley Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:59 am

A team with that clown Romero and Demichelis is not gonna take us out. He can save as many penalties as he wants to but dude remains a crappy keeper. Lazer Toni is gonna take every open shot he'll get at this guy, enjoy! And Demichelis... Laughing

(is he really in a WC final?) is gonna get skinned like in the 2010 CL final.

by Onyx Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:31 am

WC final ball:

Spoiler:

by Art Morte Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:42 am

Argentina with a chance to win the World Cup in Brazil after the home nation got humiliated in the semis, this World Cup could turn out very sour for Brazil.

But I think Germany are easily the favourites to win it.

by Zizou Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:51 am

RealGunner wrote:This is Messi's time.

Germany huge favourites for this, but if Messi wants it, he will get it.

Going with Argentina win.

Do not underestimate Klose and Neuer.
Neuer will be very upset, if he can not keep his "Goal clean"...

and... I do assume that from the way Holland did neutralize Messi yesterday most of the time the team will be able to pick up some clues on how to deal with him to not let him "do his magic" while still creating space for Schweinsteiger/Khedira/Lahm to get the Ball where Klose/Müller/Schürle can create desater...

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:19 pm

Babun wrote:I don't think Argentine's defence was out of this world. They basically had 6 peeps intheir half all the time. Only Messi, Higuain, Lavezzi and Di Maria sub were venturing forward. The Dutch were more busy canceling out Argies than looking for scoring opportunities themselves. I was disappointed. I also overrated Dutch midfield. They're good enough to keep possession but couldn't do sh*t to create chances or be incisive upfront. I was wondering why non of Dutch/ Argies didn't ressort to Mou football. The midfield didn't yield anything anyways, might as well have hoofed the ball over.

Back to the game, Germany has got a midfield so no, we won't have a hard time against Argies. They might score a freak goal via their talented forwards but it won't be enough. Their defence will be exposed too for the first time in the tournament. Sitting back isn't enough to stop Germany, they have to go gang ho at midfield and disturb the defenders at buildup which the Dutch coped easily with. Germany does the same on much higher level.

And please stop with the choker BS. Spain were the ultimate chokers, Argies have always been chokers etc. The only true chokers I know in modern footy are England and Arsenal.

Hilarious

That's called good defence Laughing

They have played like that all tournament yet you and many others keep saying they will concede 2 or 3 today before each game. Laughing

by VivaStPauli Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:23 pm

I'm with Mole on this one. Argentina's defence has been very effective. Admittedly, this has also been because it has mostly been 10 men defending, but who's counting?

I'm cautiously optimistic, but we never do well when we're the favorite, so I hope we will be very, very careful.

We can probably nick this tie through either Müller heroics or a goal from a set piece.

That being said, we can also easily lose this. If Argentina fluke a single goal, or Messi has a moment of geniu, it will be unbelievably tough to get the equalizer once they really park the bus.

This final will be an ugly, boring match for neutrals, and wreck havoc on the nerves and sanity of all Germans and Argentinians.

by Sri Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:26 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:I'm cautiously optimistic, but we never do well when we're the favorite, so I hope we will be very, very careful.

VivaStPauli wrote:This final will be an ugly, boring match for neutrals, and wreck havoc on the nerves and sanity of all Germans and Argentinians.

+1.

by The Franchise Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:29 pm

Argentina are defending with the same number of men as everyone else, if not less because Higuain and Messi barely do anything.

People just bitter because they insisted Rojo sucks, Garay was nothing special, his partner even worse and the goalie is a dud...and it turns out none of that is really true.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:33 pm

I underestimated Garay myself, mainly because i only saw him in Benfica's highline. Turns out if you negate his lack of pace by playing deeper he's actually quite good.

Anyway i agree with Viva, expecting a very nervous and tense game.

by VivaStPauli Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:36 pm

Yeh, Franchise, do we really have to debate whether Argentina sit really deep, or can we just agree on that?

Yes they don't have more actual defenders on the pitch, but they do have a very conservative approach when venturing forward, letting their midfielders sit deep to supply cover - there probably isn't a team in the world that will give Germany less space than Argentina will.

Side note: How injured is Di Maria? Any chance of him making it? I really want both teams to have their strongest lineup.

by The Franchise Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:41 pm

Yeah sure, not arguing any of that.

But making sound like they are parking the bus is kinda misleading as is calling it "10 men defending"..especially as they dont even defend with 10 men.

by BusterLfc Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:49 pm

Defending with 10 men? Messi never contributes defensively so that's not true at all.

And why is everyone talking about Argentina's defence?

Garay is really great, expected him to be like this. He's also a big aerial threat when going forward.

Zabaleta is Zabaleta.

Rojo doesn't offer much when going forward, but he is really good defensively, mainly because he is being played as a CB at Sporting.

Demichelis has experience and should be starting over Fernandez, I don't know why is everyone attacking this guy, he has been just fine.

And collectively they are playing really good and have a great cover from Mascherano and Biglia so I don't know why everyone expects Argentina's defence to suddenly crumble in the final.

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