Re: World Cup FINAL: Germany vs Argentina discussion

by BusterLfc Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:49 pm

Defending with 10 men? Messi never contributes defensively so that's not true at all.

And why is everyone talking about Argentina's defence?

Garay is really great, expected him to be like this. He's also a big aerial threat when going forward.

Zabaleta is Zabaleta.

Rojo doesn't offer much when going forward, but he is really good defensively, mainly because he is being played as a CB at Sporting.

Demichelis has experience and should be starting over Fernandez, I don't know why is everyone attacking this guy, he has been just fine.

And collectively they are playing really good and have a great cover from Mascherano and Biglia so I don't know why everyone expects Argentina's defence to suddenly crumble in the final.

by Babun Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:56 pm

The Franchise wrote:Argentina are defending with the same number of men as everyone else, if not less because Higuain and Messi barely do anything.

People just bitter because they insisted Rojo sucks, Garay was nothing special, his partner even worse and the goalie is a dud...and it turns out none of that is really true.

Garay is real quality. He becomes exceptional whenever his team doesn't play a high line. Romero isn't bad either as long as he isn't forced to play Neuer style. You can't convince me about Demichelis and Zabaleta though. Mascherano is playing like a GOAT. People should mention him too. They aren't bad but not exceptional either, average defenders. We'll expose them in the final.
We have one of our own btw (Höwedes). My conviction they'll is based upon the fact that they faced teams with no proper midfield all the way to the final. Argie's mids cover basic defensive duties and that's it. I'd like to see the defence and their men when their midfield is torn apart :coffee:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Babun wrote:I don't think Argentine's defence was out of this world. They basically had 6 peeps intheir half all the time. Only Messi, Higuain, Lavezzi and Di Maria sub were venturing forward. The Dutch were more busy canceling out Argies than looking for scoring opportunities themselves. I was disappointed. I also overrated Dutch midfield. They're good enough to keep possession but couldn't do sh*t to create chances or be incisive upfront. I was wondering why non of Dutch/ Argies didn't ressort to Mou football. The midfield didn't yield anything anyways, might as well have hoofed the ball over.

Back to the game, Germany has got a midfield so no, we won't have a hard time against Argies. They might score a freak goal via their talented forwards but it won't be enough. Their defence will be exposed too for the first time in the tournament. Sitting back isn't enough to stop Germany, they have to go gang ho at midfield and disturb the defenders at buildup which the Dutch coped easily with. Germany does the same on much higher level.

And please stop with the choker BS. Spain were the ultimate chokers, Argies have always been chokers etc. The only true chokers I know in modern footy are England and Arsenal.

Hilarious

That's called good defence They have played like that all tournament yet you and many others keep saying they will concede 2 or 3 today before each game.

Will you eat the humble pie afterwards? eco smile

by The Franchise Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:10 pm

Babun wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Argentina are defending with the same number of men as everyone else, if not less because Higuain and Messi barely do anything.

People just bitter because they insisted Rojo sucks, Garay was nothing special, his partner even worse and the goalie is a dud...and it turns out none of that is really true.

Garay is real quality. He becomes exceptional whenever his team doesn't play a high line. Romero isn't bad either as long as he isn't forced to play Neuer style. You can't convince me about Demichelis and Zabaleta though. Mascherano is playing like a GOAT. People should mention him too. They aren't bad but not exceptional either, average defenders. We'll expose them in the final.
We have one of our own btw (Höwedes). My conviction they'll is based upon the fact that they faced teams with no proper midfield all the way to the final. Argie's mids cover basic defensive duties and that's it. I'd like to see the defence and their men when their midfield is torn apart

What is there to convince you of Zabaleta about? He is a pretty decent defender and has been for a few years.

What exactly are you saying? If the midfield is exposed then the defence will look bad? Well thats not exactly rocket science right there...put any back 4 you want without a midfield and it will happen.

I think the truth is simple, we saw it with Brazil already. When teams are organised and have reasonable quality (Argentina have that) they do just fine. If they arent organised, they will have troubles.

by Brady2Moss Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:11 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:
Brady2Moss wrote:If Messi keeps dropping back deep into midfield, Argentina are gonna get trashed. Gotta find a way to get Messi the ball higher up the pitch.

Sabella is just another Maradona version. Clueless.

Not followed Sabella b4, but this is totally wrong. To have this Argentina defense which nobody rated pre tournament to perform like they have, top draw.

Argentina's defense is garbage tbh. Two main reasons why it looked so good so far:

1. It hasn't really been tested.
2. Argentina's backline got a 2 man wall upfront in Mascherano and Biglia. These two rarely make any forward runs allowing the defense to look comfy back there.

Netherlands played very cautious. Had they actually really gave it a go, they would have it in normal time. Argentina's lack of creativity in the middle of the park will come back to haunt them in the final.

by darixanboy Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:19 pm

Argentines are fighters. They will foul you, beat you, cheat you

If Germany dont park the bus they are in trouble. With Di Maria coming back it will be impossible to stop them without bus

Every team from Bosnia to Holland parked bus against Argentina. If Germany become arrogant and think they are too good to park the bus then they are finished

And if Germany approaches it with fear and respect then we will see boring game and 1-0 win by any team

by VivaStPauli Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:59 pm

BusterLfc wrote:And collectively they are playing really good and have a great cover from Mascherano and Biglia so I don't know why everyone expects Argentina's defence to suddenly crumble in the final.

I do not, at all, expect Argentina's defense to crumble at any time. I just hope it won't hold for 90 minutes.

by Collblanc Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:05 pm

darixanboy wrote:Argentines are fighters. They will foul you, beat you, cheat you

If Germany dont park the bus they are in trouble. With Di Maria coming back it will be impossible to stop them without bus

Every team from Bosnia to Holland parked bus against Argentina. If Germany become arrogant and think they are too good to park the bus then they are finished

And if Germany approaches it with fear and respect then we will see boring game and 1-0 win by any team

Agreed. Every team has parked the bus against Argentina and there is just 1 reason for that; dat attacking 4. give them some space and they will tear you apart. Dont be fooled by this Argentina side because they havent convinced yet- wich team have gave them the space like Spain did to Holland and Brazil did to germany? no one.

by LuckAndWin Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:58 pm

Germany for the win, you just can't deny it that Joachim Low side are composed of each individual with an equal divided talent, while for Argentina though they have their main star Messi, but it's not only Messi who would bring them each of them should showcase their talent.

by Mamad Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:13 pm

I don't agree about Argentina's defence being good.

lets see:

against Bosnia : didn't see the game
against Iran : ref didn't give Iran a clear penalty and Iran had another 2 great chances to score.
against Nigeria : 2 goals conceded
against Switzerland : they were lucky as hell they didn't concede
against Belgium : didn't see the entire game....but Belgium are crap.
against Netherlands : their best defensive performance. Robben had a very good chance to score btw but he didn't control the ball well and Mascherano who had a fantastic game blocked his shot.

Argentina's defence isn't that good really. what they needed to do against Netherlands was to shut down Robben and they did that. all due respect to Netherlands they were a one man team.

Defending against Germany is way more complex than defending against Netherlands. They will face a team with a fantastic midfield and great link up play not some young kids with Robben.

i may be wrong but i think Argentina will need to park the bus.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:17 pm

They haven't conceded any goals in the KO stage and 3 all tournament ( 2 in a game when they had already qualified)

Of course its good Laughing

by Mamad Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:18 pm

Every team from Bosnia to Holland parked bus against Argentina. If Germany become arrogant and think they are too good to park the bus then they are finished

Holland didn't park the bus.

by Mamad Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:20 pm

They haven't conceded any goals in the KO stage and 3 all tournament

numbers aren't important. The opponents, how the game went and other factors should be considered.

by McAgger Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:22 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:They haven't conceded any goals in the KO stage and 3 all tournament ( 2 in a game when they had already qualified)

Of course its good

Dude they've played absolutely fodder until the Dutch

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:27 pm

Ok....if you want to play this game.

Germany were very lucky not to concede against Algeria and France and despite Brazil being crap they still breached their back 4 many times.

I don't see anyone saying how their defense is crap..... just accept your slices of humble pie Laughing

by Babun Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:32 pm

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:37 pm

About them facing scrubs.... its funny i could have sworn this forum before playing against said scrubs they were going to concede 2 or 3 goals minimum.

I'm still waiting btw, just funny how after each round they get proven wrong and STILL instead of admitting ok we were wrong we are still searching for excuses.

I'm not saying they won't concede against Germany and they won't lose against Germany.... but it is funny after each round of everyone beefing their chest out saying this is gonna happen and each round being proven wrong.... yet we still are seeing excuses Laughing

by McAgger Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:39 pm

What excuses? Almost everyone in this forum called Argentina making it to the semis AT LEAST knowing that their only tough opponent will come at that stage.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:47 pm

"Argentina will have to score 3 or 4 to win today" i saw posts like that before Switzerland and Belgium.

"Holland will win by at least two goals"

The scrubs excuse only holds any weight if no one was actually saying before these games that Argentina wouldn't keep a clean sheet Laughing

Now after they keep the clean sheets.... its because they are scrubs apparently.

They have been solid the entire KO stage, scrubs are irrelevant because Germany played scrubs and they didn't look solid the entire time.

But apparently their defense is still shit because " HES NOT A WORLD RENOWNED NAME HERP DERP".

One has to wonder what their defense actually has to do to get some credit round here and everyone to actually accept the slice of humble pies they have waiting for them in the proverbial kitchen.

by messixaviesta Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:09 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I think you're all going to be deceived in what type of match its going to be.

Yes Germany were awesome but part of it was due to how much space Brazil gave them, they never got that space all tournament and thus didn't look as good and i expect the same in the final.

What we saw tonight is a prelude to what the final will be like IMO, Argentina will limit their space as much as possible and will try to get in behind in wide areas.

Not saying Germany won't win they are definite favourites, but those expecting it to be an open game and like the Brazil game are in for a rude awakening. I'm expecting something like the 1990 WC final and those who have seen that game will probably want to not bother watching the game.

mole, I agree completely.

by chad4401 Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:11 pm

seriously lets cut the crap argentina got lucky to face fodders up until the semi's, if half the team they faced could actually finish their defence would look very average or lower, did you not see the chances the swiss missed come on now Laughing

, or iran or nigeria or bosnia they could have been destroyed regularly fact

by messixaviesta Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:13 pm

Freeza wrote:Messi needs to show up against a good opponent though, only made a difference against lesser teams. Feel Germany can toy with Argentina like last WC, of course a bad day can change that.

I had a similar thought. Messi has defied all his critics to reach the world cup final but it hasn't quite been Maradona 1986. Messi's best was in the group stages and even after that he was decisive and contributed but the quality and the impact became less and less with his worst coming last night. To really be called a world cup superstar like Maradona Messi now has to make the final his own. Without it anyway Argentina are very unlikely to win. Without it the only way we can win is by luck through some deflected goal or corner or penalty shoot out but we have already had our share of luck in the tournament. Hence largely there are two possibilities for the final. Either Messi wins it for us and takes his place alongside Maradona or Germany show that they are quite simply the better team.

by messixaviesta Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:14 pm

BusterLfc wrote:86 to repeat again

Whether 86 will repeat or 90 time will tell but one of them will do.

by messixaviesta Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:15 pm

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Hope this goes to penalties

I couldn't disagree more. It was terrible to see a world cup semi final decided on penalties. At least let the final have a worthy winner.

by messixaviesta Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:17 pm

Zealous wrote:The flukiest world cup win of all time.

Earlier you said it was not possible to win the whole thing by fluke but now you have changed your stance?

by Winter is Coming Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:08 pm

Carles Puyol is set to unveil the trophy alongside Gisele Bundchen ahead of the World Cup Final on Sunday.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:00 pm

Why are you people talking about individual defender's quality? Laughing

Defending is all about spaces, and managing spaces is all about coaching. Hence why Iran, Greece and Costa Rica can create defensive masterplays whereas a much more defensively talented team in Brazil cannot.

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