The Ganso post WC reaction

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Post by Robespierre Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:40 pm

@Gil wrote:Yeah, the biggest winners today were Silva, Neymar and Alves.


Agreed about Neymar and Alves, not about Silva.
He will have on his conscience that ban . Brazil would have got knocked out equally , but probably not for 1-7

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Post by Insoucious Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:41 pm

@elitedam wrote:We have been disorganized since the beginning of the WC. Our defense has been wide open mostly due to our nonexistent midfield. We were a collection of individuals. Individuals with little talent and no balls. This is our worst team in at least 24 years and a lot of this is on Felipao. He'll be forever known as a clown and should never coach again.

Congrats to a classy German side.


You said it all.
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Post by Zealous Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:44 pm

Yeah Silva's dumbass yellow is the reason the score was this high. Brazil probably still get shafted but maybe not by 7 lol

As for Alves this is a guy who was dropped for playing poorly enough that Maicon had to come in to add some life to the right flank lol
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Post by farfan Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:46 pm

scolari shot himself in the foot by not taking players that could make the difference .

coutinho , lucas, benfica's rodrigo...

he should've taken a competent center back who could partner and fill in for thiago silva ( roma's castan, or even miranda )

still , germany was far too superior that i don't think few changes would've made them win it , but definitely not get thrashed like this .
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Post by Pedram Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:04 pm

Brazil should've been knocked out against Colombia.
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Post by farfan Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:05 pm

@Pedram wrote:Brazil should've been knocked out against Colombia.


you mean chile ?
colombia didn't deserve to qualify really.
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Post by FalcaoPunch Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:38 pm

@farfan wrote:
@Pedram wrote:Brazil should've been knocked out against Colombia.


you mean chile ?
colombia didn't deserve to qualify really.

lol
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:40 pm

Molenation

I won't deny that I enjoyed this thoroughly, but as someone that also knows what it's like to be raped by the Germans (although not quite this bad...) I sympathize with the Brazilian people. Now let's just hope the cup stays in South America.

Predictions for the fall out? Huge riots or was the defeat so demoralizing that people willl just cry in the corner of their rooms?
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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:51 pm

@Zealous wrote:Yeah Silva's dumbass yellow is the reason the score was this high. Brazil probably still get shafted but maybe not by 7 lol

As for Alves this is a guy who was dropped for playing poorly enough that Maicon had to come in to add some life to the right flank lol


The reason for this scoreline is not any player, but Brazil's inexplicable gung-ho approach.
Seriously what were they thinking? Storming ahead from second one?
Who did they think they were up against?

Giving us this kind of space?

They overestimated themselves, they thought they could play with us in an open game.
Other teams knew better, and even clubs like Real knew better.

Anyway, fair play to Brazil for a great tournament, Ganso, don't take it too hard as you will be back.

Fwiw, my team lost a CL final at home, and didn't come out of it worse.


Last edited by Hapless_Hans on Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Rebaño Sagrado Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:54 pm

gansito Sad
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Post by Rebaño Sagrado Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:54 pm

@farfan wrote:
@Pedram wrote:Brazil should've been knocked out against Colombia.


you mean chile ?
colombia didn't deserve to qualify really.
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Post by Bankz Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:55 pm

Neymar's the biggest winner here, if anything, he's been elevated in the football order..as a WC leader worthy of building team around. Same with silva
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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:57 pm

Neymar would not have made a tiny little difference.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:04 am

Neymar, Alves nor Silva will feel any better that they wasnt playing. That is for sure.

But as for the game, ill post my thoughts here because I figure the other is too cluttered anyway.

The saddest part, was the part which I didnt fully consider but once it was clear....was the deciding part.

There was no deep rooted belief in themselves. The first 10-15 minutes were just fine, the first 5 minutes were very good even...but once that first goal went in, it immediately fell apart.

I didnt think about what would happen if Germany scored first...especially from a very avoidable goal like a set peice. It crippled Brazil, totally.

Look at the second goal, Luiz gives up on the play before its even over. Not singling him out, but he was the most clear in that play..as soon as Fernandinho couldnt reach the interception attempt, he packed it in.

Without Neymar and Silva, there was no belief at all they could come back. And then the onslaught happened.

I was however wrong, I said I felt German would probably win, but I felt if Neymar and Silva was there it would be different. I think it would have been more respectable, but still a defeat..not because Germany are that much better than Brazil, but because to my total shock Scolari got the tactics 100% wrong.

Brazil for some reason decided they would try and keep the ball, play with a high line and pass their way forward. Why? They didnt do this in the group stages or Chile or Colombia...why on earth now? Without your best players against the best team they have faced?

Germany compressed and pressed the midfield easily. Brazil knocked it across the back 3 (2 cbs plus Gustavo who dropped)...Khedira marked Fernandinho, Piggy on Oscar and it was over. Fred didnt drop into midfield to occupy one of the midfield (thus freeing up Oscar) and Oscar didnt drop deep anyway. So Brazil ended up playing aimless balls into the midfield, it was lost and then...massacre.

It was made worse by the kamikaze performances of the back 4 (well not Dante). The game already over at 3 and 4 nil...both fullbacks still getting ahead of the ball, Luiz charging forward wrecklessly....the amount of spaces were Barcelona comical.

What were they doing? They want to get back in the game? Well not after suffering 4 goals in about 10 minutes...be solid for a while, keep some level of structure and then slowly work your way back in...Luiz, Maicon (who never played better than Alves in any of the games can I add on a personal level) and Marcelo (started this mess by giving away the corner so needlessly) needs to be kept in check...I dont know if Silva would of done this or not, thats just presumptuous, but it was horrible to watch.  

In the end, someone has to pay for this defeat. Half a dozen and the coach have to go, just on principle. This group wont recover from this beating.
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Post by rwo power Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:10 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Fwiw, my team lost a CL final at home, and didn't come out of it worse.
May I remind people of the semi in the World Cup 2006 when we were kicked out of our World Cup by the Italians? So we've been there, too.


Last edited by rwo power on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:10 am

Completely agreed Dani. I mentioned in the aftermath of the Chile game that these Brazilian group seemed mentally weak - what with crying before the penalties even started - and losing their captain and best player must have added too much pressure. It reminded me of the ARG-GER match in 2010 where as soon as we went 2 goals down in the 70th minute we basically gave up and rapidly conceded 2 others.

There were rumors that Big Phil called a psychologist to help the team, but it looks like that didn't work much (if that was even true).
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:17 am

sorry, that may be but for me that is not the deciding factor.

Imo this debacle is not because of the 'mental weakness' of the players but because of the ridiculous way 'Big Phil' set his team up to play.

He can send them to psychologists all day long, it won't help if he sends his young players out to be massacred.
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Post by Ganso Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:12 am

If Neymar and TS played,Germany would still be in the final, however the final result would most definitely not be 7-1.This squad is very limited and as I said on the match thread before the game, losing them is like cutting the total talent of our team by half.
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Post by FalcaoPunch Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:18 am

Brazil just broke down and seemed to just give up after the first goal.
Haven't seen something like that since barca smashed us 5-0.
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Post by Cruijf Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:48 am

@rwo power wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:Fwiw, my team lost a CL final at home, and didn't come out of it worse.
May I remind people of the semi in the World Cup 2006 when we were kicked out of our World Cup by the Italians? So we've been there, too.


I don't think you can even begin to suggest that's on the same planet as this...

2-0 AET is painful but by no means humiliating. This is something else, and I really wonder how Brazil will recover and how long it will take.
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Post by Peccadillo Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:54 am

1. Heaviest defeat by a host nation
2. Heaviest defeat in a semi final
3. 1 + 2 = much worse.
4. It's Brasil

Not the same at all to Italy v Germany '06.

dw Ganso I'm sure you'll have another dominant generation before you know it.

Do you think it would help if your top talents didn't go to the EPL or Russia of all places. Your GK has been playing championship football ffs.

Having such a strong Chelsea core, for example, appears to conflict with the Brazilian footballing ethos. Maybe that's rubbish, its just a thought.
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Post by Winter is Coming Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:58 am

@FalcaoPunch wrote:Brazil just broke down and seemed to just give up after the first goal.
Haven't seen something like that since barca smashed us 5-0.


When Bayern beat us 4-0 and 3-0?
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:10 am

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Post by Bankz Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:24 am

Its not like neymar would have stopped this defeat but he's absence lost brazil 40% of their belief and will power..with the mere presence of neymar and TS, germany would have had a different and more cautious approach, thats the truth and the germans knew even before d game started..Its just nature. *go ask santos*
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Post by Babun Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:34 am

@Ganso wrote:If Neymar and TS played,Germany would still be in the final, however the final result would most definitely not be 7-1.This squad is very limited and as I said on the match thread before the game, losing them is like cutting the total talent of our team by half.

Brazil has to learn from this defeat. That's what Germany did after 2002. This generation isn't as bad as most think. Your coach is super crap, the lineup is crap and the way Brazil is set up with the players you have is crap right now.
You've got realy good defenders/ DMs ( Silva, Dante, Luiz, Gustavo, Fernandino)and someone suitable for counters (Nerman, Hulk). Dunga got it right but was fired because he didn't want to play suicidal footy. It's possible to line up a team that would compete at top internaional level. I say, 70% of the blame goes to the bum Scolari and 30% to mentally weak players.
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Post by FalcaoPunch Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:41 pm

@Winter is Coming wrote:
@FalcaoPunch wrote:Brazil just broke down and seemed to just give up after the first goal.
Haven't seen something like that since barca smashed us 5-0.


When Bayern beat us 4-0 and 3-0?

That too
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