AST Reaction to Jan. Window

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Post by Sri Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:34 am

AST Statement on January Transfer Window

The January transfer window is an opportunity for teams to strengthen for the future and provide a boost to the squad for the season run-in.

Once again, despite poor league form by our own high standards, we see extremely limited activity by Arsenal, who have decided that there is just one player, at a price deemed acceptable, capable of strengthening the first team squad.

We can only assume this is purely a footballing decision taken by the manager, and that across the squad he feels there were no other options better than the 'two per position' he maintains are both important and available to him.

The fact that there is money available for squad strengthening is not disputed. The AST's independent analysis suggests that the amount is somewhere between £50m-£70m. Ivan Gazidis confirmed recently that considerable funds were available to the manager.

Failure to qualify for the Champions League will cost the club in the region of £30m to £40m in lost revenue in the 2013-14 season, but this will be compensated for by increased TV and commercial monies that are due as well as income from the sale of the Queensland Road site. On this basis the financial 'hit' is manageable and the AST does not believe there is any case for the present financial austerity.

The AST believes that there remain important questions about the way player identification, recruitment and remuneration processes are managed at Arsenal. They seem to be a long way from what would be expected and we intend to raise these issues again with the club.

Arsenal supporters pay some of the highest ticket prices in world football, providing the club with considerable financial resources but the ambition and ability to use them appear to be missing.

Continued missed opportunities to strengthen are detrimental to the club and are causing long term damage to the squad's competitiveness, evidenced by the ever-increasing points gap between Arsenal and the top of the table.

The AST hopes that Arsenal's distant owner and its Board are looking at this situation as critically as its supporters.


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Post by Sri Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:37 am

In principle, I must agree that we could have done better in the window. The lack of a striking option on the bench is disconcerting at best.

However, I do not endorse the public posturing and public attacks being issued. We used to take pride in being a club with class. Where is all our class gone?

I see sections of us are no different from those Stoke or Norwich embarassments on live television yesterday.

There are problems, no denying that. But please, I request you all, lets approach it with some dignity and class.

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Post by urbaNRoots Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:01 am

What's so unclassy about that reaction? scratch

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Post by Sri Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:37 am

urbaNRoots wrote:What's so unclassy about that reaction? scratch


Well my later comment was not entirely directed at AST. Part of my reaction was because of the mileage the goal.com article based on the AST statement tried to create. 'scathing', 'angry fans' crap.

However, I did not agree with AST about having a need to spend 58-82m just because we have it.

Barca were not willing to negotiate on Villa. Jovetic was non-negotiable mid-season. The alternative was another stop gap replacement on high wages that we would not have been able to move on later. How difficult is that logic?

We complain constantly about lack of signings. When we make stop-gap/panic buys, we complain again.

But when AW and Arsenal do the right thing by not wasting the resources in January on a second grade solution and keep the option and money available for the summer, we complain yet again?

LB was a real problem area, despite all the focus on midfield and strikers. We have the numbers and quality in midfield. We are short of strikers but did try to get additions which would make a difference. Too bad it didn't happen, but heck we tried. Its January and mid season ffs. We haven't ever sold a contract rebel top star (and there have been a few of those) in mid-season. Why would other clubs do that?

And yet, all this bickering and complaining. Thats what is unclassy.

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Post by urbaNRoots Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:46 am

First of all David Villa would be a stop gap signing too, he's 31 and not an investement for the future - so stop gap signings aren't too bad if you know what you're buying.

AST are saying: "there remain important questions about the way player identification, recruitment and remuneration processes are managed at Arsenal." and I agree with that.

You want a top class striker? David Villa? Ok, but what if he's not available? What is the clubs plan B or plan C? Wenger today basically confirmed that we lack atleast one player because he tried to sign one more but failed to do so. Why didn't he have a plan B or C if plan A doesn't work out?

Matt Spiro a reputable french based journalist just said that Arsenal were after Capoue but didn't want to pay what the clubs president wanted (15million euros). Capoue is a quality player who would start every game for Arsenal and they didn't buy him because he's too expensive - even though there's money available. That's what Arsenal fans are questioning the transfer policy and rightly so.

What if Arsenal don't make the Champions League next season? The likes of Jovetic, Cavani and Capoue aren't gonna join a club that's not in the Champions League then we can forget about this kind of quality joining Arsenal, all this because Arsenal were reluctant to spend some extra money that WAS available.

Being positive is all good, but saying that the "situation is not so bad" is just being purely deluded, because the situation is pretty bad if we don't make the Champions League again. We're currently a 6th placed team in the league that has added NOTHING to the first team to make sure we go two positions higher at the end of the season.

LB was only one of the many squad problems. We only have 3 centre backs and neither makes any of us 100% comfortable, one of them is completely shite and still a starter, Song is still not replaced, Gervinho is our only backup striker... Gervinho who's not even a natural striker, Szczesny has become complacent and is 100% sure he'll start every game when fit because no one else is close to his level.

Yeah it's all good.
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Post by Highburied Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:57 am

Sri

FFS, you are getting on my nerves with your positiveness.

I dont endorse negativity either.

We have to look at the reality and speak as it is.

Btw, we have no rights to criticize AST. They are the most valuable asset to our club.

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Post by Highburied Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:11 pm

srigooner wrote:

However, I did not agree with AST about having a need to spend 58-82m just because we have it.

Barca were not willing to negotiate on Villa. Jovetic was non-negotiable mid-season. The alternative was another stop gap replacement on high wages that we would not have been able to move on later. How difficult is that logic?

We complain constantly about lack of signings. When we make stop-gap/panic buys, we complain again.

But when AW and Arsenal do the right thing by not wasting the resources in January on a second grade solution and keep the option and money available for the summer, we complain yet again?


And yet, all this bickering and complaining. Thats what is unclassy.

Please stop it.

Its simple:

Reduce the ticket prices and we lower our expectations but we dont mind to pay money when that money is being invested into the club.

Arsenal FC should be on top considering the fan base surrounding it.

In sports, the only solution is winning, there is no other way!

You CANNOT tell me NOT to complain when you and I know the reality of our club ffs.

Kapish?
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Post by Sri Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:30 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:First of all David Villa would be a stop gap signing too, he's 31 and not an investement for the future - so stop gap signings aren't too bad if you know what you're buying.

Partly, I disagree. We are reliant on Arteta and Sagna and Rosicky, who are not very far from that age. Rosicky is 32 infact. Villa would have given us atleast 2.5 years of quality. I don't see that as a stop gap. It is stop gap, if you compare him to Jovetic or Cavani.

AST are saying: "there remain important questions about the way player identification, recruitment and remuneration processes are managed at Arsenal." and I agree with that.

I am with you on this. I agree with AST on this point. I do not diss the entire AST statement, just parts of it I can not completely agree with.

You want a top class striker? David Villa? Ok, but what if he's not available? What is the clubs plan B or plan C? Wenger today basically confirmed that we lack atleast one player because he tried to sign one more but failed to do so. Why didn't he have a plan B or C if plan A doesn't work out?

We went for Jovetic. It was him or Villa, of this I am convinced. But what when there is no quality available mid-season? That is my point. AW is a smart man. He clearly realized that Benik Afobe is better than having the likes of Bendtner, Chamakh or Park to rely on. We can invest in a much better striker in the summer than waste money on an alternative now.

A lot of argument for a striker has also been based on the fact that we loaned out Chamakh. FFS, half the time, he didn't make it to the bench anyway! How does he count in the number of available strikers if he isn't even deemed fit for the bench?

Matt Spiro a reputable french based journalist just said that Arsenal were after Capoue but didn't want to pay what the clubs president wanted (15million euros). Capoue is a quality player who would start every game for Arsenal and they didn't buy him because he's too expensive - even though there's money available. That's what Arsenal fans are questioning the transfer policy and rightly so.

I see a lot of hype around Capoue. Maybe he would have been a good signing, but in terms of quality, I don't see him much higher than Diame. Again, experts of French football can prove me wrong here. My views are strictly personal.

We saw such hype around M'Vila. He now went to Rubin Kazan.

For two deep midfield roles, we have : Arteta, Coquelin, Wilshere, Ramsey, Diaby. Even if you count Wilshere as rotation for the advanced mid, with Rosicky and Cazorla, we still have four quality midfielders there. Ramsey has performed well enough in the last month. Arteta was crucial before his injury.

We are blinded here by the fact that we concede silly goals and do not have a strong bullish DM. Thats what the media feeds us. Take a moment to think of how we play our games from a tactical point of view. A player like Coquelin is what we need, not Diame or Capoue or M'Vila. But Coquelin is young and we keep throwing him at the deep end of the pool. Remember 8-2? Sign any player in that position and you kill Coquelin's chances and potential.

End December, I was also of the opinion that we needed a DM. I have changed my views since. I believe this is a team game and a review of the goals we have conceded the last 6 months makes me conclude that we don't need ONE DM, but we need our current bunch to become confident and play with more consistency.

What if Arsenal don't make the Champions League next season? The likes of Jovetic, Cavani and Capoue aren't gonna join a club that's not in the Champions League then we can forget about this kind of quality joining Arsenal, all this because Arsenal were reluctant to spend some extra money that WAS available.

While I am not disagreeing with this, I also find a need to point out that getting that 1-2 signings, especially from outside the PL, doesn't guarantee immediate impact and a top 4 finish. In principle, I agree with you that we are *bleep* if we don't make top 4 this season. Not in financial terms, not in terms of attracting quality, but in terms of morale. This bunch have faced a lot of really tough situations and defeats, and are mentally made of porcelain. Finishing out of top 4 would kill them mentally.

Being positive is all good, but saying that the "situation is not so bad" is just being purely deluded, because the situation is pretty bad if we don't make the Champions League again. We're currently a 6th placed team in the league that has added NOTHING to the first team to make sure we go two positions higher at the end of the season.

Whether we like it or not, we are stuck with this bunch till the summer. We have arguably the easiest run in of all teams for the 3/4 spot. We need consistent performances and a winnging streak to clinch third. We need to produce our second half performances for the entire 90 minutes.

LB was only one of the many squad problems. We only have 3 centre backs and neither makes any of us 100% comfortable, one of them is completely shite and still a starter, Song is still not replaced, Gervinho is our only backup striker... Gervinho who's not even a natural striker, Szczesny has become complacent and is 100% sure he'll start every game when fit because no one else is close to his level.

Yeah it's all good.

I agree its all messed up buddy. This is the worst season in a long time, by a country mile. Our options at the back are Sagna, Jenks, Vermaelen, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Gibboss, Nachos.
Individually, (not including Fish-n-Chips), they are all top top top quality. Among the best in the world. Yet they mess up.

You can replace a shite player by replacing him, a la Nacho Man for Fish-n-Chips. But our problem is a backline in pathetic form. The remedy for that is not in the transfer market, it is in the training ground. It is through a string of good consistent team performances and a string of wins and clean sheets. Maybe Nacho can galvanise the back line. Maybe not. But we need Per and TommyV and Sagna to dig into their reserves of experience and quality to provide the answer here.

On GK: Yes. Szczesny lacks competition right now and Vito is nowhere near the same level. But Fabianski is, and I wish we can have him back soon. Atleast till the summer, that is a viable option. It is difficult to find a keeper to match our requirements. We want someone who is competitive enough to bring the best out of Szcz, but ok with sitting on the bench too. Thats difficult. Maybe Steklenberg in the summer, maybe.

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Post by Sri Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:35 pm

highburied wrote:Sri

FFS, you are getting on my nerves with your positiveness.

I dont endorse negativity either.

We have to look at the reality and speak as it is.

Btw, we have no rights to criticize AST. They are the most valuable asset to our club.


I respect your opinions highburied. But whether we like it or not, we are stuck with the squad for the next few months.

Again, let me reiterate the fact that I am NOT criticising AST. I have utmost respect for them and their contributions.

But I will not hide behind that admiration and pipe down my opinions either. I have a different view of the reality is all.

Nor am I content with our transfer window. I feel as let down as any of you that we have no striker on the bench. I do not feel bad about not having a new DM or CB or GK however. I have put my views on the market in the earlier post.

If they are too optimistic, so be it. Its borne out of my rationale and I am content with that.

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Post by The Franchise Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:04 pm

I dont think Jovetic was ever a possibilty, especially not with the sort of pitiful offers I am hearing about.

So I agree with those who say you had no real plan B for Villa. But, I dont think Villa was a realistic target either, we said over 2 weeks ago we dont want to sell him...why you wasted your time with that I dont know.
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Post by Mudcat Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:07 pm

I haven't posted in months because I don't want to constantly be responding to all the negativity directed toward the club and toward Arsene Wenger, but I do want to make a couple of points.

What is the use in spending money to bring in players who aren't better than the players Arsenal already has? The players available in January are largely the sort of players that Newcastle and QPR bought -- decent players, but not players better than the ones currently getting the bulk of the playing time for Arsenal. Sure, there are two or three of those guys who might help strengthen the bench, but then you're stuck with even more players who aren't really the quality of players you need to win the league or the Champions League. The player moved in this window most likely to have been an asset to Arsenal had they bought him was the one Arsenal bought. It's very difficult to get a Cavani or a Jovetic in January. Those transfers are better done in the summer when their current clubs have time to plan and find replacements, not in the rush of January shopping. Sure, Arsenal could have bought Diame, but why? I think Big Sam was right on target when he asked "Where is he going to play there?" Arsenal already has better players.

Look, Arsenal bought three top quality players last summer in Cazorla, Podolski and Giroud. It's taken them some time to settle in, but all have now shown what they can do. Now it's a matter of being more consistent. As Wenger pointed out, Arsenal has actually scored more goals at this point than they had last year when they were so heavily dependent on Van Persie. They just haven't done it consistently. But let's give this team a chance to see if they can be more consistent down the stretch now that the new guys have had a chance to settle in. Then spend the money in the summer on quality, not on January panic buys to satisfy impatient fans. I find it quite amusing (and at the same time disgusting) that so many Arsenal fans accuse Wenger of "panic buying," yet in the same breath they're yelling "Why haven't we bought anyone?!!! Buy somebody!"

I actually agree with something Niall Quinn said on Sky Sports yesterday. He said the worst thing a chairman can do is listen to the fans. Look, this team probably isn't going to win the Champions League, but it has a shot at the FA Cup and still an excellent chance at a top four finish. Buying players in January just to be buying them wouldn't make Arsenal contenders for this year's league title. But waiting and spending the money wisely in summer might make them contenders for the title next year and beyond. Let's wait and see what happens. Bitching and moaning isn't going to change things either. It's just going to make you miserable.
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Post by Sri Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:16 pm

+1 Mudcat. :bow:

You should seriously find some time for the crusade more often. Wink

@Franchise -

Quote on our website from AW read that we were close to another player, but it came down to the club not wanting to sell. Could have well been Jovetic or Villa.

The one Internet Bullshit Artist who has gained my trust over the last few months (@geoffarsenal) spoke of a 30million bid. Thats the Jovetic valuation. Fact remains that he wasn't for sale this January. I don't think we willl make a 30 mill bid for Villa.

Tbh, there are no quality realistic targets in January unless there are exceptional circumstances - like contract situations or financial problems.

What would Plan B/C/.. have been? Who was available in the window past for sale without a massive exageration of the price tag?

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Post by The Franchise Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:34 pm

Well, if the club wasnt willing to sell how can he possibly say "we were close"? That doesnt make sense to me.

You wasnt ever close to Villa, not when the entire time we said we arent selling.

And if its true you offered 10m plus the corpse of Arshavin...you wasnt close then either.

If you offered 30, then thats a different story.

Whos available? It depends on who you want.

I think many players might be available, if your willing to spend. The problem is Wenger is consistently cheap, which is sometimes good dont get me wrong, but can cost you too. No question, teams dont want to sell in Jan unless they get a good offer so it depends on how willing you are.

I dont endorse panic buying at all, but I dont endorse standing pat just for the sake of it.

Now, I am not saying you need these guys, but there are players out there you think, you might be able to get.

Nani was probably available, Hulk might want a way of his the racist hell hole that is Zenit, everyone allowed Ba to go to Chelsea with no fight, Belhanda was half way out of the door at some point, Pastore is struggling at PSG, Damiao was/is willing to go to Spurs, Remy might of chosen QPR over Newcastle but I dont think he would of chose them over Arsenal, Vargas shunned at Napoli for no good reason has dropped down a level to Brazil...im sure there are others if you think hard enough, the question is are you willing to pay.

I dont buy that none of these players are better than some you have, and again this is me off the top of my head, im probably missing many more.

We can say good and bad things about these players, for example I wouldnt go anywhere near Pastore..but there are some players out there in some sticky situations you might be able to tempt at the right price.


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Post by urbaNRoots Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:51 pm

Mudcat wrote:What is the use in spending money to bring in players who aren't better than the players Arsenal already has? The players available in January are largely the sort of players that Newcastle and QPR bought -- decent players, but not players better than the ones currently getting the bulk of the playing time for Arsenal. Sure, there are two or three of those guys who might help strengthen the bench, but then you're stuck with even more players who aren't really the quality of players you need to win the league or the Champions League. The player moved in this window most likely to have been an asset to Arsenal had they bought him was the one Arsenal bought. It's very difficult to get a Cavani or a Jovetic in January. Those transfers are better done in the summer when their current clubs have time to plan and find replacements, not in the rush of January shopping. Sure, Arsenal could have bought Diame, but why? I think Big Sam was right on target when he asked "Where is he going to play there?" Arsenal already has better players.
Not true at all, Sissoko, Mbiwa, Ba, Capoue, Adrian all players who could've improved our first team, all failed to sign.

Also according to you Mudcat, Monreal has not strenghten us because he's strengthen our bench. I don't think you realize that having a strong bench is key to winning big titles.

Mudcat wrote:Look, Arsenal bought three top quality players last summer in Cazorla, Podolski and Giroud. It's taken them some time to settle in, but all have now shown what they can do. Now it's a matter of being more consistent. As Wenger pointed out, Arsenal has actually scored more goals at this point than they had last year when they were so heavily dependent on Van Persie. They just haven't done it consistently. But let's give this team a chance to see if they can be more consistent down the stretch now that the new guys have had a chance to settle in. Then spend the money in the summer on quality, not on January panic buys to satisfy impatient fans. I find it quite amusing (and at the same time disgusting) that so many Arsenal fans accuse Wenger of "panic buying," yet in the same breath they're yelling "Why haven't we bought anyone?!!! Buy somebody!"

So you suggest to risk "giving this team a chance" and if it fails miserably miss out on the Champions League and give us no chance of signing top quality in summer? Laughing

Instead of signing players and give you a better chance against your rivals who already have better teams.

Mudcat wrote:I actually agree with something Niall Quinn said on Sky Sports yesterday. He said the worst thing a chairman can do is listen to the fans. Look, this team probably isn't going to win the Champions League, but it has a shot at the FA Cup and still an excellent chance at a top four finish. Buying players in January just to be buying them wouldn't make Arsenal contenders for this year's league title. But waiting and spending the money wisely in summer might make them contenders for the title next year and beyond. Let's wait and see what happens. Bitching and moaning isn't going to change things either. It's just going to make you miserable.

I'm sorry Mudcat, but you need a reality check. This team doesn't have a shot at the FA Cup Mudcat, we struggled hard to beat Swansea and are yet to beat a team that is higher ranked than us (Spurs aside). Top 4 is reachable but that's simply not good enough for Arsenal.

Arsene Wenger has made Arsenal deluded fans into thinking that reaching top 4 is alright and that this team is good enough to win the league and cup, in my opinion that's miserable than anything else.
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Post by Sri Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:58 pm

The Franchise wrote:Well, if the club wasnt willing to sell how can he possibly say "we were close"? That doesnt make sense to me.

You wasnt ever close to Villa, not when the entire time we said we arent selling.

And if its true you offered 10m plus the corpse of Arshavin...you wasnt close then either.

If you offered 30, then thats a different story.

Whos available? It depends on who you want.

I think many players might be available, if your willing to spend. The problem is Wenger is consistently cheap, which is sometimes good dont get me wrong, but can cost you too. No question, teams dont want to sell in Jan unless they get a good offer so it depends on how willing you are.

I dont endorse panic buying at all, but I dont endorse standing pat just for the sake of it.

Now, I am not saying you need these guys, but there are players out there you think, you might be able to get.

Nani was probably available, Hulk might want a way of his the racist hell hole that is Zenit, everyone allowed Ba to go to Chelsea with no fight, Belhanda was half way out of the door at some point, Pastore is struggling at PSG, Damiao was/is willing to go to Spurs, Remy might of chosen QPR over Newcastle but I dont think he would of chose them over Arsenal, Vargas shunned at Napoli for no good reason has dropped down a level to Brazil...im sure there are others if you think hard enough, the question is are you willing to pay.

I dont buy that none of these players are better than some you have, and again this is me off the top of my head, im probably missing many more.

We can say good and bad things about these players, for example I wouldnt go anywhere near Pastore..but there are some players out there in some sticky situations you might be able to tempt at the right price.



Well the club willing to sign is but one of many things Franchise, we both know it. Its among the most important, yes. But thrashing out a deal is not merely about two clubs agreeing a fee. Thats not to say that the club not wanting to sell now implies wanting to sell never. For all we know, an agreement could have been reached but the club in question didn't want to see it through till the summer, given their domestic commitments.

Secondly, stranger things have happen. I know better than to believe what a club tells the media. Surely, the people at Arsenal who engaged with Barcelona in negotiations would know more than what we or the media were told. Arsenal is a professional club ffs, not a bunch of fools who will wait till the last minute hoping for a bunch of people in Spain to magically have a change of heart.

Props to Barca if they held on to Villa. Reported bids on deadline day were 12m from Arsenal and 17m from Citeh. Not saying they were actually bids made, but I wouldn't pay more than 12mil for a 31 year old with 18 months on his contract anyway.

And of those people you have listed. How many are improvements on the players we have and how many are quality strikers of Villa/Cavani/Jovetic calibre?

Its not about making an impact signing, for whatever money. Its about making a signing which addresses a problem in the squad and improves on what is already available, without having to pay 150k+ p/w in wages. I don't see any such names in your list, with a possible exception of Damaio.

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Post by Raptorgunner Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:16 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
Mudcat wrote:What is the use in spending money to bring in players who aren't better than the players Arsenal already has? The players available in January are largely the sort of players that Newcastle and QPR bought -- decent players, but not players better than the ones currently getting the bulk of the playing time for Arsenal. Sure, there are two or three of those guys who might help strengthen the bench, but then you're stuck with even more players who aren't really the quality of players you need to win the league or the Champions League. The player moved in this window most likely to have been an asset to Arsenal had they bought him was the one Arsenal bought. It's very difficult to get a Cavani or a Jovetic in January. Those transfers are better done in the summer when their current clubs have time to plan and find replacements, not in the rush of January shopping. Sure, Arsenal could have bought Diame, but why? I think Big Sam was right on target when he asked "Where is he going to play there?" Arsenal already has better players.
Not true at all, Sissoko, Mbiwa, Ba, Capoue, Adrian all players who could've improved our first team, all failed to sign.

Also according to you Mudcat, Monreal has not strenghten us because he's strengthen our bench. I don't think you realize that having a strong bench is key to winning big titles.

Mudcat wrote:Look, Arsenal bought three top quality players last summer in Cazorla, Podolski and Giroud. It's taken them some time to settle in, but all have now shown what they can do. Now it's a matter of being more consistent. As Wenger pointed out, Arsenal has actually scored more goals at this point than they had last year when they were so heavily dependent on Van Persie. They just haven't done it consistently. But let's give this team a chance to see if they can be more consistent down the stretch now that the new guys have had a chance to settle in. Then spend the money in the summer on quality, not on January panic buys to satisfy impatient fans. I find it quite amusing (and at the same time disgusting) that so many Arsenal fans accuse Wenger of "panic buying," yet in the same breath they're yelling "Why haven't we bought anyone?!!! Buy somebody!"

So you suggest to risk "giving this team a chance" and if it fails miserably miss out on the Champions League and give us no chance of signing top quality in summer? Laughing

Instead of signing players and give you a better chance against your rivals who already have better teams.

Mudcat wrote:I actually agree with something Niall Quinn said on Sky Sports yesterday. He said the worst thing a chairman can do is listen to the fans. Look, this team probably isn't going to win the Champions League, but it has a shot at the FA Cup and still an excellent chance at a top four finish. Buying players in January just to be buying them wouldn't make Arsenal contenders for this year's league title. But waiting and spending the money wisely in summer might make them contenders for the title next year and beyond. Let's wait and see what happens. Bitching and moaning isn't going to change things either. It's just going to make you miserable.

I'm sorry Mudcat, but you need a reality check. This team doesn't have a shot at the FA Cup Mudcat, we struggled hard to beat Swansea and are yet to beat a team that is higher ranked than us (Spurs aside). Top 4 is reachable but that's simply not good enough for Arsenal.

Arsene Wenger has made Arsenal deluded fans into thinking that reaching top 4 is alright and that this team is good enough to win the league and cup, in my opinion that's miserable than anything else.

Well said urban.

All our good players left us for a reason, our team is full of average players. The Arsenal board has no vision and Wenger is lost in delusional Ambition.
Our philosophy only works in football manager.

What the transfer window showed us is that neither the board or our manager have ambition for the club. Wenger defends his players by saying that it would be near on impossible to improve his squad in January, but surely he doesn’t mean it?

If we had good players City, United an other big clubs would be after our players, I dont know who Wenger is tying to fool.

The end of the season Wenger, Satan, Donkey Face and Hell Wood out.

Wenger has taken us as far as he can, we are on a big down fall. Making top4 with this team is a miracle. What the transfer window showed us is that neither the board or our manager have ambition for the club.

I am done with all this, no more talk about them, just want to watch Arsenal and hope we finish in the top4.
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Post by Mudcat Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:29 pm

srigooner wrote:+1 Mudcat. :bow:

You should seriously find some time for the crusade more often. Wink


Thanks. But I'm already seeing exactly why I don't. It's just easier to skip over the nonsense, some of which I'm about to reply to. Wink
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Post by Mudcat Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:06 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
Not true at all, Sissoko, Mbiwa, Ba, Capoue, Adrian all players who could've improved our first team, all failed to sign.


I wasn't aware that Capoue or Adrian had been transferred during this window. Besides, Adrian isn't even a regular for the club he plays for now. What makes you think he would be Arsenal's savior? Ba basically has no knee. Chelsea can afford it if it suddenly gives out on him. Let them have him. Besides, he's no better than Giroud. Not as good, actually, and certainly he wouldn't seem to have as bright a future. And who do you suggest Sissoko and Mbiwa would have replaced in Arsenal's starting lineup?

Also according to you Mudcat, Monreal has not strenghten us because he's strengthen our bench.

Where did I say that? In fact, I said that of all the players transferred this month, he was the one most capable of actually making a difference. Learn to read.

I don't think you realize that having a strong bench is key to winning big titles.

As I noted, Arsenal isn't winning the title this year. They could have brought in Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi and half a dozen other guys and still could not catch Manchester United. So why bring in a bunch of mediocre players to chase an unreachable title when you can better spend the money on real quality in the summer? Think, man. Think.



So you suggest to risk "giving this team a chance" and if it fails miserably miss out on the Champions League and give us no chance of signing top quality in summer? Laughing


First of all, clubs such as Arsenal can sign top quality players even if they miss out on the Champions League. Liverpool wasn't in the Champions League when they signed Suarez and they've added some other quality when they were a damn sight worse off than Arsenal is now. Hell, Spurs manage to buy quality players. How often are they in the Champions League? Do you really view Arsenal as such an inferior club to Liverpool and Spurs? Besides, you're bitching about not being able to sign quality players, yet your solution is to sign players that went to Newcastle? You're making no sense. Besides, signing the players you mentioned would not guarantee that Arsenal finish in the top four anyway. They might provide a little more depth in case some guys were injured, but that's about it. They would just fill up space and make it more difficult to buy true quality players in the summer.

Instead of signing players and give you a better chance against your rivals who already have better teams.

Again, Arsenal could have signed Messi, et al, in January and they still wouldn't catch Manchester United or City. Probably not Chelsea either, unless they totally collapsed. Buying the sort of players you want to buy would guarantee that Arsenal would be stuck behind those clubs for the foreseeable future. Realistically, Arsenal is battling Spurs, Everton and possibly Liverpool for fourth place. If you think those teams are really better than Arsenal, then maybe you're supporting the wrong team. I do not think those teams are better than Arsenal's and I think the Gunners have an excellent chance to get that Champions League spot.



I'm sorry Mudcat, but you need a reality check. This team doesn't have a shot at the FA Cup Mudcat, we struggled hard to beat Swansea and are yet to beat a team that is higher ranked than us (Spurs aside). Top 4 is reachable but that's simply not good enough for Arsenal.

If Arsenal doesn't have a chance at the FA Cup, all the more reason not to engage in a bunch of panic buying and bringing in a bunch of the crap other clubs didn't want anymore. And if you believe top four is not good enough for Arsenal, then why do you want to doom them to settling for that -- at best -- by bringing in Newcastle and QPR type players in a January panic?



Arsene Wenger has made Arsenal deluded fans into thinking that reaching top 4 is alright and that this team is good enough to win the league and cup, in my opinion that's miserable than anything else.

But you were just bitching about what a disaster it would be if Arsenal failed to make the top four. Now you say that's just as miserable as anything else. I wish you would make up your mind. And the fact that finishing in the top four is not good enough is exactly why Arsenal should not have brought in players just to be bringing in players in January, but rather should wait and bring in real quality -- as opposed to mediocrity -- in the summer.

*Now, Sri, you can see why I don't post anymore. It's just not worth the effort trying to get through to emotional, panic-driven fans.
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Post by RealGunner Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:12 pm

You have to experience every kind of fans and situation though Razz

Hoping to see you more often once again
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Post by Jay29 Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:15 pm

I dislike the attitude of the AST a lot, but find it hard to disagree with what they're saying. I've been saying similar things myself this month.

What's become readily apparent to me is the lack of a plan. Arsenal had clear needs going into the window and, by that point, should have identified several targets they could go after. But we didn't sign anyone until the 31st of January and only did so because of Gibbs' recent injury, which suggests that our plan for the window was to sign no one.

That's not good enough, is it? It's difficult for me to excuse the fact we're going to take chances on Diaby being fit, Giroud maintaining his form and Gervais actually being useful when we're struggling to get into the top four. With the money there, it didn't make any sense to me that we did not capitalise on the opportunity to put ourselves in a stronger position to achieve the bare minimum at Arsenal - that is, getting into the top four.

I wasn't aware that Capoue or Adrian had been transferred during this window. Besides, Adrian isn't even a regular for the club he plays for now. What makes you think he would be Arsenal's savior? Ba basically has no knee. Chelsea can afford it if it suddenly gives out on him. Let them have him. Besides, he's no better than Giroud. Not as good, actually, and certainly he wouldn't seem to have as bright a future. And who do you suggest Sissoko and Mbiwa would have replaced in Arsenal's starting lineup?

Adrian was benched due to contract issues, not because he's not good enough.

Ba's "dodgey knee" has not acted up in about three seasons. He is a more clinical striker than Giroud (check his goalscoring record since joining West Ham) and of a similar age.

Sissoko would have replaced Diaby easily since Diaby can't remain fit.

Mbiwa would have replaced one of Mertesacker or Vermaelen. He's of a similar level, if not better right now, plus he can play full back and defensive midfield.

No use crying over spilt milk, of course, but these players would have definitely strengthened us this window.

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Post by The Franchise Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:58 pm

srigooner wrote:



Well the club willing to sign is but one of many things Franchise, we both know it. Its among the most important, yes. But thrashing out a deal is not merely about two clubs agreeing a fee. Thats not to say that the club not wanting to sell now implies wanting to sell never. For all we know, an agreement could have been reached but the club in question didn't want to see it through till the summer, given their domestic commitments.

Secondly, stranger things have happen. I know better than to believe what a club tells the media. Surely, the people at Arsenal who engaged with Barcelona in negotiations would know more than what we or the media were told. Arsenal is a professional club ffs, not a bunch of fools who will wait till the last minute hoping for a bunch of people in Spain to magically have a change of heart.

Props to Barca if they held on to Villa. Reported bids on deadline day were 12m from Arsenal and 17m from Citeh. Not saying they were actually bids made, but I wouldn't pay more than 12mil for a 31 year old with 18 months on his contract anyway.

And of those people you have listed. How many are improvements on the players we have and how many are quality strikers of Villa/Cavani/Jovetic calibre?

Its not about making an impact signing, for whatever money. Its about making a signing which addresses a problem in the squad and improves on what is already available, without having to pay 150k+ p/w in wages. I don't see any such names in your list, with a possible exception of Damaio. [/quote]

I agree, so then by saying "we are close" to me is just lies given to the fans to make them feel better. But fans are not so stupid. I mean, Man City were as close to signing Messi as you were to Villa, we rejected both offers lol

As for the players, what is this calibre you speak of? Those players, not all, but more than half, without a doubt are better than what you have. And again, they are just random players I named...if we actually started to think about it, we could probably gather a list of 10 strikers/forwards you could of signed who are better than what you have right now.

Hulk is on big wages, but he is in a desperate position and he only went to Zenit in the first place because noone else wanted him. If you give him an escape from the hell hole, perhaps he takes a wage cut. But we would never know, because you didnt try.

Ba, you could of got him for less than that figure of 150k.

Nani, why not? He aint a striker, but if you have Giroud and Walcott as you two main striker..dont you even need another one? Wouldnt a forward who can play other roles be as good, if not better.

I dont know about you, but I am more confident in Giroud and Walcott in the center than I am about Gervinho, Arshavin, Ox and Ramsey playing in a wider role.

Vargas and Remy, another two who can play wide and improve what you have.

Other names you could of at least tried for if you wanted?

Adrian? Sturridge? Llorente ? Hunterlaar? Doumbia? Aubameyang?

I refuse to believe there wasnt options out there for you. None of these guys are just "buying someone for the sake of it".
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Post by Mudcat Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:06 pm

GoonerJay29 wrote:

Adrian was benched due to contract issues, not because he's not good enough.


I'm not saying Adrian isn't a good player, but there are better players out there Arsenal can get. Apparently Wenger is more interested in Cavani or Jovetic. Truthfully, so am I. Would you rather get Adrian now, or wait and get Cavani or Jovetic in the summer? Maybe Manchester City can afford to buy everyone, but Arsenal can't. Of course there's no guarantee Arsenal can complete a deal, but the same can be said for Adrian. So why settle?

Ba's "dodgey knee" has not acted up in about three seasons. He is a more clinical striker than Giroud (check his goalscoring record since joining West Ham) and of a similar age.

Ba's knee is a constant problem for him, even if he's been able to avoid missing time. He's always in pain. He suffered an absolutely horrendous injury, then the surgeon botched the operation and drove a nail into his knee while pinning his broken bones. He now has a degenerative condition that will end his career prematurely. It could be a few years off or it could be tomorrow. Stoke City refused him because his medical led them to believe that the knee is a "ticking time bomb." Also, Ba bitches and whines if asked to play anywhere but in the middle up front. And Giroud is just now getting settled. Give him a chance.

Sissoko would have replaced Diaby easily since Diaby can't remain fit.

Maybe. But that's still just a depth move. He's not replacing Arteta, Jack or Cazorla.

Mbiwa would have replaced one of Mertesacker or Vermaelen. He's of a similar level, if not better right now, plus he can play full back and defensive midfield.

He was a good player for Montpellier, but I'm not sure he could have walked in and taken one of those spots. His versatility would have been a plus. Not a real difference-maker, though.

No use crying over spilt milk, of course, but these players would have definitely strengthened us this window.

From a depth standpoint in the short term, this is true. But you have to look at the long term. Again, there are better players who will be available in the summer. Arsenal has had a difficult time getting rid of some of the players they want to see gone as it is. Are you going to buy these good but not great players for the sake of 15 games and then maybe want to replace them with better players in the summer? Or are you going to tie yourself to these players who aren't good enough to help you challenge for a title in the future and just settle? If the right players aren't available in January, I see no reason to buy just to be buying.
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Post by Wilson37 Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:07 pm

Mudcat wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:
Not true at all, Sissoko, Mbiwa, Ba, Capoue, Adrian all players who could've improved our first team, all failed to sign.


I wasn't aware that Capoue or Adrian had been transferred during this window. Besides, Adrian isn't even a regular for the club he plays for now. What makes you think he would be Arsenal's savior? Ba basically has no knee. Chelsea can afford it if it suddenly gives out on him. Let them have him. Besides, he's no better than Giroud. Not as good, actually, and certainly he wouldn't seem to have as bright a future. And who do you suggest Sissoko and Mbiwa would have replaced in Arsenal's starting lineup?

Also according to you Mudcat, Monreal has not strenghten us because he's strengthen our bench.

Where did I say that? In fact, I said that of all the players transferred this month, he was the one most capable of actually making a difference. Learn to read.

I don't think you realize that having a strong bench is key to winning big titles.

As I noted, Arsenal isn't winning the title this year. They could have brought in Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi and half a dozen other guys and still could not catch Manchester United. So why bring in a bunch of mediocre players to chase an unreachable title when you can better spend the money on real quality in the summer? Think, man. Think.



So you suggest to risk "giving this team a chance" and if it fails miserably miss out on the Champions League and give us no chance of signing top quality in summer? Laughing


First of all, clubs such as Arsenal can sign top quality players even if they miss out on the Champions League. Liverpool wasn't in the Champions League when they signed Suarez and they've added some other quality when they were a damn sight worse off than Arsenal is now. Hell, Spurs manage to buy quality players. How often are they in the Champions League? Do you really view Arsenal as such an inferior club to Liverpool and Spurs? Besides, you're bitching about not being able to sign quality players, yet your solution is to sign players that went to Newcastle? You're making no sense. Besides, signing the players you mentioned would not guarantee that Arsenal finish in the top four anyway. They might provide a little more depth in case some guys were injured, but that's about it. They would just fill up space and make it more difficult to buy true quality players in the summer.

Instead of signing players and give you a better chance against your rivals who already have better teams.

Again, Arsenal could have signed Messi, et al, in January and they still wouldn't catch Manchester United or City. Probably not Chelsea either, unless they totally collapsed. Buying the sort of players you want to buy would guarantee that Arsenal would be stuck behind those clubs for the foreseeable future. Realistically, Arsenal is battling Spurs, Everton and possibly Liverpool for fourth place. If you think those teams are really better than Arsenal, then maybe you're supporting the wrong team. I do not think those teams are better than Arsenal's and I think the Gunners have an excellent chance to get that Champions League spot.



I'm sorry Mudcat, but you need a reality check. This team doesn't have a shot at the FA Cup Mudcat, we struggled hard to beat Swansea and are yet to beat a team that is higher ranked than us (Spurs aside). Top 4 is reachable but that's simply not good enough for Arsenal.

If Arsenal doesn't have a chance at the FA Cup, all the more reason not to engage in a bunch of panic buying and bringing in a bunch of the crap other clubs didn't want anymore. And if you believe top four is not good enough for Arsenal, then why do you want to doom them to settling for that -- at best -- by bringing in Newcastle and QPR type players in a January panic?



Arsene Wenger has made Arsenal deluded fans into thinking that reaching top 4 is alright and that this team is good enough to win the league and cup, in my opinion that's miserable than anything else.

But you were just bitching about what a disaster it would be if Arsenal failed to make the top four. Now you say that's just as miserable as anything else. I wish you would make up your mind. And the fact that finishing in the top four is not good enough is exactly why Arsenal should not have brought in players just to be bringing in players in January, but rather should wait and bring in real quality -- as opposed to mediocrity -- in the summer.

*Now, Sri, you can see why I don't post anymore. It's just not worth the effort trying to get through to emotional, panic-driven fans.
Thumbs up
i really like your posts.. totally agree.. hope you keep posting...

i dont think there were many top top players who Wenger wanted who would improve Arsenal.. and there is no need to make signings just for the sake of it or to please fans...
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Post by Mudcat Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:08 pm

RealGunner wrote:You have to experience every kind of fans and situation though Razz

Hoping to see you more often once again

I know. All the negativity just gets to be a downer though. I'm getting way too old for that. But I'll try to be around more. Very Happy

And thanks Wilson! Thumbs up
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Post by DuringTheWar Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:23 pm

Imagine if Gibbs got injured tomorrow instead of last week Laughing :facepalm:

Anyway whether we could have done better in January or not, the awful faults are still there. Can't sign top players in Jan? Well why did we even start the season with one striker? Or were we expecting chamkh to play better? Why did we start the season with just one player that offers physicality to midfield? Who happens to be the most injury prone player join Europe.

All this with nearly 80 mil there to spend Laughing I think it's time to face reality, it's not the owner, it's not the board, it's the manager, he has compete an utter faith in his squad he is become deluded
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