Re: The Ganso post WC reaction

by FalcaoPunch Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:41 pm

Winter is Coming wrote:
FalcaoPunch wrote:Brazil just broke down and seemed to just give up after the first goal.
Haven't seen something like that since barca smashed us 5-0.

When Bayern beat us 4-0 and 3-0?

That too

by Guest Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:17 pm

Oscar needs to never be called back up. Sorry, not good enough.

People booed Fred but he got nothing from him, nor Hulk. Watch him go back to Fluminense and score bucketloads. Because they feed him.

Copa America needs Coutinho,Firmino,Neymar, and Willian. Bernard maybe as I feel he was the best thing going forward, but he shouldnt have started.

by BusterLfc Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:11 pm

Yeah Fred has incredible numbers for Fluminense

by Valkyrja Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:18 pm

They should also call up Moura

by VivaStPauli Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:35 pm

I'm pretty sure if the old goal.com forums were archived somewhere, you could find posts by me and others saying that Dunga basically got it right, and should remain Brazil's coach despite the loss to the Dutch, back then.

Agree with Babun 100%, just set the team up for counters, which they have the players for, and start implementing some more active tactics when the suitable players come out of the academies.

by Lord Awesome Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:54 pm

The only thing Scolari got wrong was the team he selected in the end. TBH, it was amazing they even got this far but one has to consider that luck has been on Brazil's side since this game.

Anyway Scolari tried doing what Brazil did to Colombia. Score as many goals as possible in the First Half & soak up the pressure in the second half. Problem with that tho was the lack of real punch on Brazil's attack. Germany was already tested by a French offense, who punch even harder, and soak the entire pressure almost easily. The lack of attacking options was Brazil's downfall in this one. Scolari tried grinding in a goal like against Colombia but instead received. Lowe basically forced Scalari's hand to keep Brazil on offense and then the rest is history after the second goal.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:07 pm

With all due respect, we are not Colombia, so there's a fallacy from Scolari right there.

by Lord Awesome Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:47 pm

Not bringing in Lucas and Kaka or even Dinho along with Luis Fabiano was Scolari's real fallacy.

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:05 pm

RealGunner wrote:
I hope this result means the rebirth of Joga Bonito. The football Brazil has always been known for.

I said it before that this Brazil team heavily relied on spirit. The quality wasn't there. This was probably the weakest brazilian team I've seen. Brazil needs to re-think their ideology and go back to the ways which they have always been known for.

Very similar thoughts.

This thought also crossed my mind that if such football can't even yield results why don't Brazil go back to their Joga Bonito roots.

I said even before the tournament started that Brazil is overrated but I did predict them to reach the final.

Most importantly though ever since I began watching international football Brazil has by far been the most loved team. At times they have been like most people's second team with the thought that if my country cannot win then let it go to Brazil. This world cup is the very first time that I have come across a Brazil side so hated. Having grown up among countless worshippers of Brazil it's hard to explain how difficult it is for me to let this sink in.

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:07 pm

izzy wrote:Could be worse.... could have Nigeria as your national team.........

Or even worse ... Cameroon

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:09 pm

Fußball wrote: I said it a few days ago. They reminded me of Germany in 2006. Average team punching above its weight infront of the home crowd.

Didn't think of this one. Very good comparison. The difference though is that Germany with all it's limitations won the world's respect and affection while this Brazil receives nothing but extreme contempt and hatred.

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:13 pm

rwo power wrote:Well, I think in the end Neymar and Thiago Silva can be happy they were not on the pitch, so their reputation didn't get blemished. That way a new Brazil team can be nicely built around them.

Very much. People were asking before the match whose absence would count more. Now that is a moot point. Brazil really could have played this match without Neymar but for the next few months they better not even step on the pitch without Thiago Silva.

To be very honest though I don't think I can explain last night purely in football terms. There seemed to be a higher power at work. Maybe the curse of the Maracana. Even more maybe the curse of those people who were denied food to finance the expenditure of this world cup. Players simply froze in the moment in a manner whose exact like I don't think I have ever seen before. Top professionals looked like they were playing football for the first time and didn't even know each other's first names. It was so unreal. Even now the eyes are trying to digest what they saw last night.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:14 pm

Brazil should not receive hatred and contempt from the world, why?
They suffered a bitter defeat, why add insult to injury?

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:18 pm

Fußball wrote:
FalcaoPunch wrote:I'm glad neymar wasn't there.
The amount of hate he'd be getting for not carrying this sorry Brazil would be unbelievable.

And Alves.

I feel you. So glad that he didn't step on the pitch last night. Smile

Brazilian fans would be so much better off if they had lost to Chile in that penalty shoot out. Anyone can lose in a shoot out. So not much of a disgrace. Hate against them would be much less because they wouldn't have got the better of some of the neutral's favourite teams sometimes using some not so likable tactics. Most importantly of course last night wouldn't have happened. Neutrals around the world would have been so much happier seeing Chile go far and then see two of the favourite neutral's teams in Chile and Colombia play each other in a decider. Alas!

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:19 pm

elitedam wrote:He'll be forever known as a clown and should never coach again.

So his winning WC 2002 counts for nothing at all?

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:21 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
I won't deny that I enjoyed this thoroughly, I sympathize with the Brazilian people.

If the divine rage on Brazil is still not assuaged Argentina will play in the Maracana and lift the trophy.

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:23 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Brazil's inexplicable gung-ho approach.

The main approach in that gung-ho approach was hoofing the ball from the right flank to the left wing and from the left flank to the right wing.

by Ganso Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:26 pm

I'm sure we will die hugging each other in the 3rd place match.A derbie for the final and for the 3rd place match will be the cherry on top of the best WC ever.

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:28 pm

The Franchise wrote:Neymar, Alves nor Silva will feel any better that they wasnt playing. That is for sure.

But as for the game, ill post my thoughts here because I figure the other is too cluttered anyway.

The saddest part, was the part which I didnt fully consider but once it was clear....was the deciding part.

There was no deep rooted belief in themselves. The first 10-15 minutes were just fine, the first 5 minutes were very good even...but once that first goal went in, it immediately fell apart.

I didnt think about what would happen if Germany scored first...especially from a very avoidable goal like a set peice. It crippled Brazil, totally.

Look at the second goal, Luiz gives up on the play before its even over. Not singling him out, but he was the most clear in that play..as soon as Fernandinho couldnt reach the interception attempt, he packed it in.

Without Neymar and Silva, there was no belief at all they could come back. And then the onslaught happened.

I was however wrong, I said I felt German would probably win, but I felt if Neymar and Silva was there it would be different. I think it would have been more respectable, but still a defeat..not because Germany are that much better than Brazil, but because to my total shock Scolari got the tactics 100% wrong.

Brazil for some reason decided they would try and keep the ball, play with a high line and pass their way forward. Why? They didnt do this in the group stages or Chile or Colombia...why on earth now? Without your best players against the best team they have faced?

Germany compressed and pressed the midfield easily. Brazil knocked it across the back 3 (2 cbs plus Gustavo who dropped)...Khedira marked Fernandinho, Piggy on Oscar and it was over. Fred didnt drop into midfield to occupy one of the midfield (thus freeing up Oscar) and Oscar didnt drop deep anyway. So Brazil ended up playing aimless balls into the midfield, it was lost and then...massacre.

It was made worse by the kamikaze performances of the back 4 (well not Dante). The game already over at 3 and 4 nil...both fullbacks still getting ahead of the ball, Luiz charging forward wrecklessly....the amount of spaces were Barcelona comical.

What were they doing? They want to get back in the game? Well not after suffering 4 goals in about 10 minutes...be solid for a while, keep some level of structure and then slowly work your way back in...Luiz, Maicon (who never played better than Alves in any of the games can I add on a personal level) and Marcelo (started this mess by giving away the corner so needlessly) needs to be kept in check...I dont know if Silva would of done this or not, thats just presumptuous, but it was horrible to watch.

In the end, someone has to pay for this defeat. Half a dozen and the coach have to go, just on principle. This group wont recover from this beating.

Wonderful post.

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:32 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:I'm pretty sure if the old goal.com forums were archived somewhere, you could find posts by me and others saying that Dunga basically got it right, and should remain Brazil's coach despite the loss to the Dutch, back then.

I don't think there was a bigger supporter of Dunga at those forums than yours truly and the way he was treated post WC 2010 I am still bugged about.

Yesterday on Twitter Graham Hunter called Scolari a "football thug".

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:36 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Brazil should not receive hatred and contempt from the world, why?
They suffered a bitter defeat, why add insult to injury?

I am not saying they should receive. I am saying they are receiving. Big difference. Besides the hatred is more about them having gotten past Chile and Colombia whom the neutrals loved and them using means which are considered the antithesis of Brazil. Anyway after last night the hatred will die down but the contempt will only increase. Once again let me say this is not what I am saying should happen, rather what I think will happen.

by 6unner Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:36 pm

what happens to their FIFA ranking after that.

by futbol Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:37 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
Fußball wrote: I said it a few days ago. They reminded me of Germany in 2006. Average team punching above its weight infront of the home crowd.

Didn't think of this one. Very good comparison. The difference though is that Germany with all it's limitations won the world's respect and affection while this Brazil receives nothing but extreme contempt and hatred.

That's down to Scolari who is not only a fraud manager but also the most arrogant man you'll ever see. If people suggest him to nominate Diego Costa he will do the exact opposite just to piss people off. Until Costa decides he'll be part of Spain's squad - then Scolari will suddenly throw his toys out of the pram.

People often forget that Scolari got relegated 2 years ago (because it didn't happen in Europe), playing the most fraudulent brand of football you'll see with 3 DMs. Basically like his Brazil team but without talent like Silva and Nerman and a big home crowd carrying his ass. The thuggery he promotes is obviously another reason why this Brazil team is loathed.

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:40 pm

Ganso wrote:best WC ever

Some may say that but I would say the complete opposite. Yes there were lots of goals. Yes there were some individual moments of brilliance. However there wasn't the top level competition that for me matters most of all. My feelings are best summed up by what Carlo Garganese said last night.

"Has there ever been a world cup in which top teams were so poor? It's embarrassing."

He also said - "This generation of Germans deserve a world cup."

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:41 pm

6unner wrote:what happens to their FIFA ranking after that.

Fifa rankings as far as I remember are not affected by the scores. They should be announced immediately after the world cup.

by messixaviesta Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:43 pm

Fußball wrote:
People often forget that Scolari got relegated 2 years ago (because it didn't happen in Europe), playing the most fraudulent brand of football you'll see with 3 DMs. Basically like his Brazil team but without talent like Silva and Nerman and a big home crowd carrying his ass. The thuggery he promotes is obviously another reason why this Brazil team is loathed.

Yes that makes sense. I remember some angry comments from former Brazilian players when he was appointed mentioning this relegation and that Scolari had done nothing of note in the last few years.

That Diego Costa thing was just ridiculous - another of those happenings in football which didn't do any good for anyone.

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