Italia: La Nazionale II

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Post by rincon Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:01 pm

Amazing that a bitter Milan fan manages to pull out the "they don't play for Juventus so they don't get called up" card when June's grand total of 2 players on the field was matched by inter. Even managed to squeeze in praise for Montolivo in there Laughing

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Post by Casciavit Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:08 pm

Italcelona midfield of Bonaventura - Jorginho - Verratti NEEDED
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Post by GiancarloC Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:12 pm

rincon wrote:Amazing that a bitter Milan fan manages to pull out the "they don't play for Juventus so they don't get called up" card when June's grand total of 2 players on the field was matched by inter. Even managed to squeeze in praise for Montolivo in there Laughing


Weren't you the one that praised Spinazzola? The worst player in the backline? Seriously...? Is that because he's going to go to your team in a season? That guy looked totally out of his depth. Even the pro-Juve Football-italia site gave Spinazzola some horrid numbers. He needs to be dropped completely from a call-up. I don't think even Atalanta is playing him right now.

As far as Bonaventura... he's not fully fit right now.


Last edited by GiancarloC on Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by GiancarloC Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:14 pm

Luca wrote:Did you guys expect that Ventura, in a pivotal match, would not try to rely on the old guard? Like this would be the match to bench Buffon of all players? That's kind of an unreal train of thought Laughing

Because using that mentality worked so well in the past two world cups...


Were a team in transition, there are some talented players on the come up at the very least. I didn't believe in Ventura from the start so I'm not overly surprised.


This national team has been in transition for the past decade. How much longer does it need to go on?

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Post by Luca Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:22 pm

You missed my point brother giancarlo, I'm agreeing with you, I'm just genuinely perplexed if there are people who actually believe that in a must win match against Spain, in a 56 World Cup game qualification streak without defeat, we were then going to drop players like Buffon and Barzagli? Even if it was the right decision (and I vehemently do not think it would have been), it would never happen, especially with a manager like Ventura at the helm.

Its not like either of these two were the culprits. There isn't a single player or two to blame here. The tactics were wrong, the play was generally very, very poor, the players themselves were collectively poor. We got battered by a team that actually wanted to play. Thankfully its not the end of our qualification and there's enough time before the World Cup to improve.

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Post by Robespierre Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:25 pm

lol even I forgot we 've played with Spinazzola Laughing
Never played this year with Atalanta, not even trained with his club because he mutined ( for going to Juve) , But starter against Spain .  
Giampuppet Ventura Proud
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Post by GiancarloC Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:35 pm

Luca wrote:You missed my point brother giancarlo, I'm agreeing with you, I'm just genuinely perplexed if there are people who actually believe that in a must win match against Spain, in a 56 World Cup game qualification streak without defeat, we were then going to drop players like Buffon and Barzagli? Even if it was the right decision (and I vehemently do not think it would have been), it would never happen, especially with a manager like Ventura at the helm.

Its not like either of these two were the culprits. There isn't a single player or two to blame here. The tactics were wrong, the play was generally very, very poor, the players themselves were collectively poor. We got battered by a team that actually wanted to play. Thankfully its not the end of our qualification and there's enough time before the World Cup to improve.


Well italy will most likely qualify, but it makes the road a bit more tricky.

But the issue is this team is no better than it was in 2014. That's concerning.

Yeah the tactics were wrong. Terribly wrong. The result could have been perhaps a little better... or Italy could have at least made a better impression if they didn't play 4-2-4 away from home. That formation is suicide against a team like Spain. I can't wait to see Spain start to call up Suso more... that just speaks about how much quality they have now.

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Post by Kaladin Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:58 pm

The Juve brigade out here UpVentusing each other because of their benevolent attitude towards producing NT players

I suppose Sturaro deserves a shot at this Italy side? How about Giovinco or Zaza?

Stop rating every ass Italian player, stop seeing through rose tinted glasses

Italy 2026 and Juve will still find a way to defend Buffon starting

Buffon has expired since 2013 against Bayern, even Bayern's board said it, wake up man
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Post by rincon Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:03 pm

Incredible that Milan fans try to attack Juve in such an unrelated event.
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Post by Luca Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:11 pm

Goalkeepers: Gianluigi Buffon (Juventus), Mattia Perin (Genoa), Salvatore Sirigu (Paris Saint-Germain)

Defenders: Ignazio Abate (Milan), Andrea Barzagli (Juventus), Leonardo Bonucci (Juventus), Giorgio Chiellini (Juventus), Matteo Darmian (Torino), Mattia De Sciglio (Milan), Gabriel Paletta (Parma)

Midfielders: Alberto Aquilani (Fiorentina), Antonio Candreva (Lazio), Daniele De Rossi (Roma), Claudio Marchisio (Juventus), Marco Parolo (Parma), Andrea Pirlo (Juventus), Thiago Motta (Paris Saint-Germain), Marco Verratti (Paris Saint-Germain)

Forwards: Mario Balotelli (Milan), Antonio Cassano (Parma), Alessio Cerci (Torino), Ciro Immobile (Torino), Lorenzo Insigne (Napoli)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was the 2014 squad. I'm pretty sure the 2017 call up for these qualifiers is much better, particularly the attack. Insigne has become an incredible player, Belotti along with him represent the best attacking tandem that Italy has had in quite, quite some time. It does not rival our 2002 squad, and maybe no team will, at least for a very long time.

Personnel wise, I think were alright. I can't see Italy being even a dark horse for this World Cup, especially with Ventura but even in the squad, there isn't enough difference makers.

Disclosure- I upventus the majority of Rincon posts. First of all, it triggers you guys. Second of all, I would rather spread positive thoughts in place of negative posts attacking legends like Buffon and Barzagli- who are apparently at fault for this match in some way- which I find deplorable and laughable to be honest. Also, the argument that there is some Juve agenda when there were 2 Juve players in the line up, again, laughable and deplorable.

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Post by rincon Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:49 pm

upventus cheers

A comment in Gazzetta that seems hilariously true with everything relating the NT, even here. Translated:

"When we win, 11 players play and and all are phenomenons. When we lose everything is Buffon's fault."

Everyone get real and stop overreacting.

Juve has 2 players in the lineup and somehow one only gets called up if you play for Juve. The outrage because Conti and Pellegrini are not there, but Conti and Pellegrini are there. Outrage because Montolivo was there, Montolivo was not actually there. How can Barzagli play?! yet Barzagli clearly had a better game than Bonucci. Implying that I or Luca or Warrior want Sturaro or Zaza in the NT... where did that come from? oh right, only Juve players should go to the NT. Someone should call Ventura and let him know because it seems like he forgot. But Ventura is only here to extend the NT career of older players! Here I was thinking that Conte created the oldest Azzurri ever fielded in a tournament, and that Ventura has changed and introduced a lot of younger players. Must have imagined it.

Bulletproof arguments going on this thread. How about we drop the agendas and just watch the games?
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Post by Kaladin Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:56 pm

We will see in he end, but i don't have high hopes for this team in the foreseeable future
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Post by Casciavit Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:57 pm

What's Italy's LB/LWB options?
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Post by Doc Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:59 pm

Yeah, that 4-2-4 against Spain was absolutely cancerous. I personally do not think that highly of Verrati but him and DDR were left try to manage a midfield of Isco, Busquets, Asensio, Iniesta, Silva and Koke. All exceptional passers of the ball mind you. That was not gonna end well for either of them.

I was also surprised to see Immobile starting, like genuinely surprised. Thought Italy had better, more adequately equipped players that that statue. In fact, yes, yes they do. And Conti isn't ready for NT duty? Swore he was.

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Post by rincon Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:03 am

Casciavit wrote:What's Italy's LB/LWB options?


Basically its Darmian, Spinazzola and Emerson when he comes back from the injury.
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Post by rincon Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:05 am

Doc wrote:Yeah, that 4-2-4 against Spain was absolutely cancerous. I personally do not think that highly of Verrati but him and DDR were left try to manage a midfield of Isco, Busquets, Asensio, Iniesta, Silva and Koke. All exceptional passers of the ball mind you. That was not gonna end well for either of them.

I was also surprised to see Immobile starting, like genuinely surprised. Thought Italy had better, more adequately equipped players that that statue. In fact, yes, yes they do. And Conti isn't ready for NT duty? Swore he was.



Agree with all that.

Conti is ready. He is super attacking though, it'll depend on the team's needs for now. Like Spinazzola. At Atalanta he played exclusively as a wing back. At Milan he has already started playing FB. Hopefully that develops him more and gets him to be a starter at RB.
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Post by Luca Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:53 am

Italia: La Nazionale II - Page 21 Ci6dI-ZWUAAJ4VY

The real reason that Immobile starts is the Juventus Pescara Agenda

On a side note, I can't help but smile when I see these three play. They put together an incredible season with Pescara, so much so that it earned Verratti a signing with PSG, despite never playing in the first division. It launched Insigne into the forefront, though he took some time to find his feet with Napoli, he has become an extraordinary player under Sarri. Immobile has had a tougher path with failed moves to Sevilla and Dortmund but looks every much a good player with Lazio.

Immobile is there for his workrate. Realistically, an attack involving Belotti, Insigne and Immobile is like Sarri's wet dream. They should be pressing and moving until their legs give out. I think Bernardeschi would really benefit from a system like that.

I completely agree about also having a three man midfield. Of that three, Verratti would be the only guarantee. I would like to see two of Marchisio, Bonaventura, Florenzi and Pellegrini fill up the midfield- Jorginho could be cool too.

The back four really depends on form, I think Spinazzola-Chiellini-Bonucci-Conti would probably be the best, maybe Romagnoli can bench Chiellini if him, Bonucci and Conti really form a strong combination this season for Milan- chemistry is everything here.

The players are there, its a manager who does lack ideas and that certain something to try things his way- in my opinion. I hate scapegoating players and managers but for once in my life, I would love to see an Italian team that played with a bit of conviction, freedom and uniqueness in its ideas.

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Post by Kick Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:35 am

Equal parts annoyed and happy that Zappacosta has been called up for Tuesday's game.

Annoyed because I'd like him to work with Conte earlier but always happy to see players join up with their national teams.
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Post by GiancarloC Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:07 am

rincon wrote:upventus cheers

A comment in Gazzetta that seems hilariously true with everything relating the NT, even here. Translated:

"When we win, 11 players play and and all are phenomenons. When we lose everything is Buffon's fault."

Everyone get real and stop overreacting.

Juve has 2 players in the lineup and somehow one only gets called up if you play for Juve. The outrage because Conti and Pellegrini are not there, but Conti and Pellegrini are there. Outrage because Montolivo was there, Montolivo was not actually there. How can Barzagli play?! yet Barzagli clearly had a better game than Bonucci. Implying that I or Luca or Warrior want Sturaro or Zaza in the NT... where did that come from? oh right, only Juve players should go to the NT. Someone should call Ventura and let him know because it seems like he forgot. But Ventura is only here to extend the NT career of older players! Here I was thinking that Conte created the oldest Azzurri ever fielded in a tournament, and that Ventura has changed and introduced a lot of younger players. Must have imagined it.

Bulletproof arguments going on this thread. How about we drop the agendas and just watch the games?


Those players like Conti and Pellegrini aren't getting a proper chance. And Montolivo hasn't really played anyways.

Ventura is a provincial coach with a small time mentality. Much like Allegri.

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Post by GiancarloC Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:10 am

Luca wrote:

Immobile is there for his workrate. Realistically, an attack involving Belotti, Insigne and Immobile is like Sarri's wet dream. They should be pressing and moving until their legs give out. I think Bernardeschi would really benefit from a system like that.

This work rate argument. Where was his workrate against Spain? Oh that's right... once he's cancelled out of a game, he's entirely invisible. Bernardeschi was terrible when he went on too.


The players are there, its a manager who does lack ideas and that certain something to try things his way- in my opinion. I hate scapegoating players and managers but for once in my life, I would love to see an Italian team that played with a bit of conviction, freedom and uniqueness in its ideas.


Well it would start with proper tactics... Italy has some class players but when they are constantly played out of position, nothing will work. This goes back to Ventura.

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Post by Luca Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:09 pm

Yeah,a few world class players. Namely Romagnoli, Bonucci, Conti, Montolivo and Donnarumma. Shame we don't have World Class EL Qualified Montella to lead this group.

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Post by GiancarloC Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:22 pm

Luca wrote:Yeah,a few world class players. Namely Romagnoli, Bonucci, Conti, Montolivo and Donnarumma. Shame we don't have World Class EL Qualified Montella to lead this group.


Your attempts at trolling fall far short.

And Milan just recently renovated itself and bought literally a new starting 11. And Donnarumma by all arguments should be starting for Italy. So should Romagnoli (who is better than Rugani) and certainly Bonucci.

Conti may need more time to be accustomed as a RB, but he does look good so far. Montolivo has improved his form as of late, but probably should avoid the national team as he really doesn't have much luck there with injuries.

Talk about shooting blanks and shooting off your mouth. Many people here actually want several of those who you named to be starting, certainly Romagnoli and Donnarumma.

Edit: Oh and if Donnarumma played for Juve, you'd be screaming and ranting about wanting him to start.

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Post by rincon Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:27 pm

@GiancarloC

is Romagnoli better than Chiellini?
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Post by Luca Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:28 pm

You just categorized Allegri with Ventura and you actually have the sheer courage to talk about trolling...

My post was a sarcastic reply to such sheer stupidity because clearly to make such a gutless assumption is not to spark discussion but just go back to the anti Juventus agenda that is clearly present here.

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Post by breva Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:30 pm

GiancarloC wrote:
rincon wrote:upventus cheers

A comment in Gazzetta that seems hilariously true with everything relating the NT, even here. Translated:

"When we win, 11 players play and and all are phenomenons. When we lose everything is Buffon's fault."

Everyone get real and stop overreacting.

Juve has 2 players in the lineup and somehow one only gets called up if you play for Juve. The outrage because Conti and Pellegrini are not there, but Conti and Pellegrini are there. Outrage because Montolivo was there, Montolivo was not actually there. How can Barzagli play?! yet Barzagli clearly had a better game than Bonucci. Implying that I or Luca or Warrior want Sturaro or Zaza in the NT... where did that come from? oh right, only Juve players should go to the NT. Someone should call Ventura and let him know because it seems like he forgot. But Ventura is only here to extend the NT career of older players! Here I was thinking that Conte created the oldest Azzurri ever fielded in a tournament, and that Ventura has changed and introduced a lot of younger players. Must have imagined it.

Bulletproof arguments going on this thread. How about we drop the agendas and just watch the games?


Those players like Conti and Pellegrini aren't getting a proper chance. And Montolivo hasn't really played anyways.

Ventura is a provincial coach with a small time mentality. Much like Allegri.


How can you compare Ventura, who never managed a major club with Allegri who has won the Scudetto with Milan and Juventus? I'm no Juve fan, but Allegri is hardly provincial.
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Post by Luca Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:31 pm

rincon wrote:@GiancarloC

is Romagnoli better than Chiellini?


Every Milan player is better than every Juventus player from Manager to whomever cuts their grass. It's quite clear at this point. I mean they bought a whole new starting 11, they qualified for the EL and they even beat Crotone thanks to Cutrone.

We're not even close to them. Montolivo and Donnarumma would've singlehandedly beat Spain.

Am I doing it right?

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