Re: Chelsea 1-3 Atletico Madrid (agg 1-3) - 2nd leg discussion

by boyzis Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:05 pm

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmatU0ECMAAf3_v.jpg

by farfan Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:06 pm

izzy wrote:
farfan wrote:argentina-england 1986

So you don't think none of the Engaland players not swipping down Maradona on route to his second wasn't a mistake?

the "hand of god" goal wasn't an england mistake tho.

the english defense was impregnable prior to that . after maradona's goal , england had to attack and spaces opened up between the midfield and defense .

maybe i didn't use the best example , but the point i'm trying to make is that a game can also be decided by outside facotrs, mainly referees mitakes.

by izzy Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:07 pm

El Gunner wrote:Okay, so what you guys are saying is that every goal happens because of a defensive mistake. That that's the main and sole reason we see goals - just because of a mistake.
I want to argue this so bad, but I think my young brain needs to sleep on it first. I'm a bit tired now.

No, not really.

What's being said is that, Managers set-up their teams in a way in which they believe will lead to a moment of weakness of an oppurtunity that can benefit from.

Human error is unavoidable. It's gonna happen. Managers just try to force it to happen more frequently.
What we may see as great build-up play that leads to a goal. The manager might see a weakness in which has/could be exploited.

by farfan Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:08 pm

Lex wrote:
chad4401 wrote: aren't you same guy who was laughing like crazy when i said benz was a very intelligent player?
tbf, that is funny

why is that ? for a striker his link up play and playmaking abilities are pretty good .

by izzy Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:09 pm

chad4401 wrote: the basics? when you can't even tell when a player is intelligent or not, and i never said manager didn't rely on mistakes, its was you pretending not to understand the point of the post earlier to try come off smart, half you clowns can't tell me about basics , i have been right about most things if not all concerning my team so again stfu and stop trying to come as some know it all

Why you so upset for?

Is it because the only people who actually agreed with what you said was Mamad and The_Badger? Laughing

by El Gunner Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:09 pm

izzy wrote:
El Gunner wrote:Okay, so what you guys are saying is that every goal happens because of a defensive mistake. That that's the main and sole reason we see goals - just because of a mistake.
I want to argue this so bad, but I think my young brain needs to sleep on it first. I'm a bit tired now.

No, not really.

What's being said is that, Managers set-up their teams in a way in which they believe will lead to a moment of weakness of an oppurtunity that can benefit from.

Human error is unavoidable. It's gonna happen. Managers just try to force it to happen more frequently.
What we may see as great build-up play that leads to a goal. The manager might see a weakness in which has/could be exploited.

Oh okay.
THAT makes much more sense tbh.

by Mamad Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:09 pm

You guys are discussing meaningless things. By "mistake" the guy who started the argument obviously meant a "brainfart mistake that shouldn't happen". When Messi and Iniesta play one-twos and unsettle the defense through intricate passing it can also be considered a "mistake" by the defense to not stop it but that's obviously not the same sort of mistake as a defender slipping away and literally gifting a goal.

Of course i meant that and everybody knows it. some people just want to play smart and show themselves as something they are not.

i say Mou's Chelsea relies too much on opponents mistakes and he says there is mistakes in every game! words are the same but meanings are different. i can't understand why some people can't understand that. or maybe as i said they do and just want to troll because i have said something about their beloved player before you know..... let it go ffs.

by Shed Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:09 pm

Winter is Coming wrote:Class from Atleti players consoling Terry. Something Mou and Chelsea can learn.

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by nadinkrah Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:10 pm

As if counter attacks happen only because of mistakes...

by The_Badger Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:13 pm

Arquitescu wrote:Sensational win. Chelsea in their warped 4-5-1 modification were in pure intention to conceal their cowardice squad players where they looked a fish out of water. Mourinho deploying this XI another mark of how old age seems to be robbing the testosterone from his body in such an indecisive selection to which lacked purpose and was tactically as congruent as a Tony Mowbray squad. What is served from such shrivelling away from risk and usage of this billion dollar squad if squat is squeezed from them in such dire fashion?

In the battlefield, such defensive tactic and indecisiveness is a product of weakness. Quite felt bad for Hazard who has to play week in week out in this football formed by a chisel, flint and sticks as the gameplan was just not there
Atlético, were sublime in all quarters of play, using a rather narrow Chelsea to exploit them via the flanks and eventually the defensive shape was not maintained. Post-Costa Goal Chelsea decided that they were forced to score, a task they seem thoroughly uncomfortable with, thus opening them at the seams while Atlético went for the jugular.

Luis my MOTM as his playing style tonight resembles Maldini it all it's influence in the play and with some wonderful touches.

Completely outwitted by Simeone. Get this scrub Mou back to Setubal where he can play all the "fiñha" football he wants.

What a load of pretentious twaddle! rofl

by chad4401 Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:13 pm

yawn izzy when i said di maria and isco were the main problem on the team you came running off your mouth like a know it all, guess when we went on a run of form? when both got kicked out of the 11 Laughing

, so again i don't need anyone to agree with me cause i trust my eyes and my knowledge, and before you try to counter that they are playing now, its because they adapted to the system eventually, so again keep deluding yourself Laughing

by Mamad Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:14 pm

Examples?

Manchester against Mou's Porto. the game in CL. referee mistake.

Manchester against Porto again. Ronaldo scoring a fantastic goal. please don't say keepers fault cuz I'll laugh.

by The_Badger Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:14 pm

boyzis wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmatU0ECMAAf3_v.jpg

Poor Mou.

by izzy Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:17 pm

chad4401 wrote:yawn izzy when i said di maria and isco were the main problem on the team you came running off your mouth like a know it all, guess when we went on a run of form? when both got kicked out of the 11 , so again i don't need anyone to agree with me cause i trust my eyes and my knowledge, and before you try to counter that they are playing now, its because they adapted to the system eventually, so again keep deluding yourself

Now you're just embarassing yourself. Making up rubbish and fake quotes.
Show me my quotes saying any of that?

Chad, I schooled you, again. It's alright man, you got Mamad who backs you up.

rofl

by El Gunner Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:17 pm

Mamad wrote:Examples?

Manchester against Mou's Porto. the game in CL. referee mistake.

Manchester against Porto again. Ronaldo scoring a fantastic goal. please don't say keepers fault cuz I'll laugh.

Actually the keeper should've saved that.
That is one of the most overrated goals in football history.

by Le Samourai Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:18 pm

There are a couple planes on which this can be argued:

Firstly, what are mistakes? It seems the term itself is confined to things that impact he game on the defensive end. So anything from cheap errors to misplaced passes that end up hurting your team defensively. But mistakes are more rife in attack than they are in defense, so we're basically ommitting the majority of mistakes made each game. Yet these have the same potential to impact the game.

Mistakes do not always neccessarily lead to wins/losses. There are many games where nothing outside a moment of magic really, tangibly altered the course of the game. Consider the following scenarios.

-Zero - Zero draw in a World Cup sem-final. Neither team has any shots on target, either in regulation or extra time. The ensuing penalties are all adequately shot, however one keeper guesses better than the other...or is straight up better. Somebody won....but where's the mistake?

- A game is determined by a single penalty, however said penalty was unfairly rewarded. No mistake, but the team screwed by the ref still loses.

But enough of that thought experiment. The fact is, each and every game is rife with mistakes, from both teams. That's simply the nature of the game, it's impossible to organize eleven individuals into a flawless cogent entity. Recognizing this, only real *bleep* ups are usually classified as errors. A misplaced shot? A miscontrol? These are let go. Still, these have the same potential for impact.

Given that, I find the argument foolish. It's more an argument about erroneous semantics, (which people have already adressed by classifying mistakes into various gradations that illustrate the impact of teams' distinct approaches)

Everyone knows he was talking about unforced errors. Why? I'm not sure. Last couple games we relied on the same. But a semantics arguement is worse than that. The only way to further it is with irrelevant nonsense like the first 3/4 of this post.

So let it go.

by chad4401 Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:20 pm

farfan wrote:
Lex wrote:
chad4401 wrote: aren't you same guy who was laughing like crazy when i said benz was a very intelligent player?
tbf, that is funny

why is that ? for a striker his link up play and playmaking abilities are pretty good .

farfan you didn't know that dribbling into dead ends makes you smart? only stupid scrubs create chance with link up play and key passes only on GL Proud

by chad4401 Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:21 pm

izzy wrote:
chad4401 wrote:yawn izzy when i said di maria and isco were the main problem on the team you came running off your mouth like a know it all, guess when we went on a run of form? when both got kicked out of the 11 , so again i don't need anyone to agree with me cause i trust my eyes and my knowledge, and before you try to counter that they are playing now, its because they adapted to the system eventually, so again keep deluding yourself

Now you're just embarassing yourself. Making up rubbish and fake quotes.
Show me my quotes saying any of that?

Chad, I schooled you, again. It's alright man, you got Mamad who backs you up.

what a clown just say you don't remember you pos, schooled me? Laughing

when in which world?

by guest_07 Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:22 pm

we should see which one is more OBVIOUS

defensive mistake or brilliant act by the scorer or the assister

we can't simply label every goal cause of mistake

if we think that way, then we should throw away all the term goal of the century or goal of the year or etc

by Mamad Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:24 pm

Chad, I schooled you, again.

You what?

. says himself Laughing

.

Ok I'm done. chad4401 and others you better let it go to.

You can't argue with someone who knows he is talking rubbish. there is no point. let it go.

by izzy Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:25 pm

chad4401 wrote: what a clown just say you don't remember you pos, schooled me? :lol:when in which world?

Provide the quotes.

Since you remeber me saying it, you should have no problem getting the thread and quotes.

........and yeah, I schooled you. Get over it.

by farfan Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:26 pm

there are lot of things you could criticize about benzema :
the inconsistency.
the occasional ,unexplainable wastefulness in front of goal .
the diminishing work rate in some games.

but i don't think he's prone to displaying a lack of intelligence or tactical awareness , not in a flagrant way at least.

by Ganso Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:26 pm

Eden #Hazard has told beIN Sport: "#Chelsea are not made to play football... Chelsea are made to play on the counter." #CFC

it wasnt mistranslated according to posters from another forum who watched the interview

by Le Samourai Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:28 pm

Ganso wrote:Eden #Hazard has told beIN Sport: "#Chelsea are not made to play football... Chelsea are made to play on the counter." #CFC

it wasnt mistranslated according to posters from another forum who watched the interview

Mou losing the dressing room already Laughing

by Arquitecto Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:30 pm

The_Badger wrote:
Arquitescu wrote:Sensational win. Chelsea in their warped 4-5-1 modification were in pure intention to conceal their cowardice squad players where they looked a fish out of water. Mourinho deploying this XI another mark of how old age seems to be robbing the testosterone from his body in such an indecisive selection to which lacked purpose and was tactically as congruent as a Tony Mowbray squad. What is served from such shrivelling away from risk and usage of this billion dollar squad if squat is squeezed from them in such dire fashion?

In the battlefield, such defensive tactic and indecisiveness is a product of weakness. Quite felt bad for Hazard who has to play week in week out in this football formed by a chisel, flint and sticks as the gameplan was just not there
Atlético, were sublime in all quarters of play, using a rather narrow Chelsea to exploit them via the flanks and eventually the defensive shape was not maintained. Post-Costa Goal Chelsea decided that they were forced to score, a task they seem thoroughly uncomfortable with, thus opening them at the seams while Atlético went for the jugular.

Luis my MOTM as his playing style tonight resembles Maldini it all it's influence in the play and with some wonderful touches.

Completely outwitted by Simeone. Get this scrub Mou back to Setubal where he can play all the "fiñha" football he wants.
What a load of pretentious twaddle!

For you.:

by The_Badger Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:36 pm

Don't be upset, Arq.

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