Move over, Big Brother, NSA is doing it far more efficiently...

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Post by rwo power Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:45 am

The Guardian just published another pretty interesting Article... You might want to visit the Guardian for the screenshots of the slides, BTW.

Spoiler:
Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

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Post by RealGunner Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:04 am

freakin hell.

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Post by rwo power Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:41 am

Oh, and this is both pretty scary but funny, too:

NSA Joke: US Military Intervene over Facebook Event
By Judith Horchert

As a joke, a German man recently invited some friends for a walk around a top secret NSA facility. But the Facebook invitation soon had German federal police knocking at his door. They had been alerted by the American authorities.

Normally, Daniel Bangert's Facebook posts tend to be of the serious variety. The 28-year-old includes news items and other bits of interest he encounters throughout the day. "I rarely post funny pictures," he says.

Recently, though, he decided to liven up his page with something a bit more amusing -- and decided to focus on the scandal surrounding the vast Internet surveillance perpetrated by the US intelligence service NSA. He invited his friends on an excursion to the top secret US facility known as the Dagger Complex in Griesheim, where Bangert is from.

He described the outing as though it were a nature walk. He wrote on Facebook that its purpose was to undertake "joint research into the threatened habitat of NSA spies." He added: "If we are really lucky, we might actually see a real NSA spy with our own eyes." He suggested that those interested in coming should bring along their cameras and "flowers of all kinds to improve the appearance of the NSA spies' habitat."

Perhaps not surprisingly, not many of his friends showed much interest in the venture. But the authorities did. Just four days after he posted the invitation, his mobile phone rang at 7:17 a.m. It was the police calling to talk about his Facebook post.

'I Couldn't Believe It'

Bangert's doorbell rang at almost the exact same time. The police on the telephone told him to talk with the officers outside of his door. Bangert quickly put on a T-shirt -- which had a picture of NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden on it along with the words "Team Edward" -- and answered the door. His neighbor was outside too so as not to miss the fun.

The police wanted to know more about what exactly Bangert had in mind. "I couldn't believe it. I thought: What? They are coming for such nonsense?"

Bangert says he answered all of the questions truthfully, saying that, yes, his intention was that of heading out to watch the spies. "The officers did smirk a bit," he notes.

How, though, did the police get wind of Bangert's planned "nature" walk? A spokeswoman for the police in nearby Darmstadt told SPIEGEL ONLINE that the US Military Police had found the Facebook post and passed it along to German officials. The Military Police are responsible for security within the Dagger Complex, but outside the fence, it is the Germans who are in charge.

Not long later, Bangert got another call asking him to report to Central Commissariat 10 of the German federal police. They too then sent an officer to his home. "The wanted to know if I had connections with (anarchist groups) or other violent people," Bangert says. He told the officers that he didn't, repeating over and over that he "just wanted to go for a walk."

Ignoring the Police

The officers, says Bangert, were unimpressed and called him a "smart aleck," before hinting strongly that he should obtain a demonstration permit before he embarked on his outing. They then told Bangert not to post anything about their visit on the web.

Bangert took their first piece of advice, registering his "demonstration" even though, as he says, "it wasn't supposed to be one." But he ignored the police's second suggestion and reported on their visit on his Facebook page. "How much more proof do you need," he wrote. "Everyone says that they aren't affected. But then I invite people for a walk and write obvious nonsense in the invitation and suddenly the federal police show up at my home."

The police spokeswoman sought to play down the incident. The officers from Central Commissariat 10 are responsible for public demonstrations, she said. And the fact that the American Military Police reported the Facebook post isn't surprising either, she said. The police, she noted, usually only learn of publicly announced Facebook parties when they are notified by those affected.

More Walks in the Future?

Nevertheless, news of the incident spread rapidly via Twitter and blogs, and the local media reported on it as well. "My grandma was angry with me," Bangert says. "She said: 'You have to be careful or you'll get sent to jail.'"

He wasn't sent to jail, of course. But the added interest in his invitation meant that some 70 people gathered on Saturday for the NSA safari in Griesheim -- along with two police cars, one in front and one behind. "Some members of the group tried to get the NSA spies to come out of their building," Bangert wrote on Facebook afterwards. Unfortunately, they didn't see "any real NSA spies." But they had a good time nonetheless -- to the point that many suggested another walk just like it.

So is he planning a repeat? "I didn't say that and I didn't write it anywhere," Bangert replies. The smart aleck.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/us-military-and-german-police-respond-to-facebook-post-about-nsa-walk-a-911451.html

So better be careful what you post on Facebook if it involves the NSA even if it is just a joke...
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Post by la bestia negra Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:18 am

food for thought and a silly question
if lets say allot of people lying on the phone on their (so called)planned attacks on many ways wouldn't that massively *bleep* up their system
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Post by rwo power Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:18 am

la bestia negra wrote:food for thought and a silly question
if lets say allot of people lying on the phone on their (so called)planned attacks on many ways wouldn't that massively *bleep* up their system
Well, IMO the NSA won't actually get info about the real bad boys as I'm pretty sure these won't use the infos way that are easy to listen in. IMO the NSA, the US government and the other secret services and governments that are involved just want a mechanism to monitor the public to be able to curb unrest easily and to crack down on dangers to their powers easily and thorougly.

And to those who claim "If you don't do anything wrong, you have nothing to fear", just look at this example where things could easily change for you without you doing anything wrong:

Imagine there would have been this surveillance already available in 1930. At this time you still had no real problem being a Jew in Germany and imagine you used Facebook to post for example photos of your kid's Bar Mitzvah ceremony with pictures of your family and some dozen guests. Suddenly in 1938, the systematic extermination of the Jews starts. The Gestapo decides to systematically search für keywords connected to Jews, and boom, everybody including you and your family on your Bar Mitzvah photos gets hunted down, deported and killed. Oops.
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Post by rwo power Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:51 am

Being a cooking afficionado can get you in trouble in the US nowadays:

New York woman visited by police after researching pressure cookers online

Long Island resident said her web search history and 'trying to learn how to cook lentils' prompted a visit from authorities but police say search was prompted by tipoff

(c) Adam Gabbatt,  1 August 2013

A New York woman says her family's interest in the purchase of pressure cookers and backpacks led to a home visit by six police investigators demanding information about her job, her husband's ancestry and the preparation of quinoa.

Michele Catalano, who lives in Long Island, New York, said her web searches for pressure cookers, her husband's hunt for backpacks and her "news junkie" son's craving for information on the Boston bombings had combined somewhere in the internet ether to create a "perfect storm of terrorism profiling".

Members of what she described as a "joint terrorism task force" descended on Catalano's home on Wednesday.

Catalano was at work, but her husband was sitting in the living room as the police arrived. She retold the experience in a post on Medium.com on Thursday. She attributed the raid largely to her hunt for a pressure cooker, an item used devastatingly, allegedly by the two Tsarnaev brothers, in Boston, but also used by millions across the country to prepare vegetables while retaining most of their nutrients.

The story later took on a different complexion when police finally explained that the investigation was prompted by searches a family member had made for pressure cooker bombs and backpacks made at his former workplace. The former employer, believing the searches to be suspicious, alerted police. Catalano said the family member was her husband.

In her first post, Catalano, a writer for indie music and politics magazine Death and Taxes wrote:

"What happened was this: At about 9:00 am, my husband, who happened to be home yesterday, was sitting in the living room with our two dogs when he heard a couple of cars pull up outside. He looked out the window and saw three black SUVs in front of our house; two at the curb in front and one pulled up behind my husband's Jeep in the driveway, as if to block him from leaving.

   Six gentleman in casual clothes emerged from the vehicles and spread out as they walked toward the house, two toward the backyard on one side, two on the other side, two toward the front door.

   A million things went through my husband's head. None of which were right. He walked outside and the men greeted him by flashing badges. He could see they all had guns holstered in their waistbands.

   "Are you [name redacted]?" one asked while glancing at a clipboard. He affirmed that was indeed him, and was asked if they could come in. Sure, he said.

   They asked if they could search the house, though it turned out to be just a cursory search. They walked around the living room, studied the books on the shelf (nope, no bomb making books, no Anarchist Cookbook), looked at all our pictures, glanced into our bedroom, pet our dogs. They asked if they could go in my son's bedroom but when my husband said my son was sleeping in there, they let it be."


At this point, Catalano said, the police were "peppering my husband with questions".

"Where is he from? Where are his parents from? They asked about me, where was I, where do I work, where do my parents live. Do you have any bombs, they asked."

It was at this point that the conversation took a delightfully culinary turn, with quinoa making an unlikely appearance in the police inquiries:

"Do you own a pressure cooker? My husband said no, but we have a rice cooker. Can you make a bomb with that? My husband said no, my wife uses it to make quinoa. What the hell is quinoa, they asked."

The joint terrorism task force did not press Catalano's husband on the dilemma facing liberals over whether quinoa consumption is ethically sound – many Bolivians can no longer afford their staple food now everyone in Brooklyn is eating it.

"By this point they had realised they were not dealing with terrorists," Catalano said.

Still, she was left worried by the visit, which she attributes to her family's internet history.

"I felt a sense of creeping dread take over. What else had I looked up? What kind of searches did I do that alone seemed innocent enough but put together could make someone suspicious? Were they judging me because my house was a mess (Oh my god, the joint terrorism task force was in my house and there were dirty dishes in my sink!). Mostly I felt a great sense of anxiety. This is where we are at. Where you have no expectation of privacy. Where trying to learn how to cook some lentils could possibly land you on a watch list. Where you have to watch every little thing you do because someone else is watching every little thing you do.

   All I know is if I'm going to buy a pressure cooker in the near future, I'm not doing it online.

   I'm scared. And not of the right things."


Late on Thursday, Suffolk County police confirmed its officers had gone to the house, but explained that it was as the result of a tipoff and was not due to monitoring of home internet searches.

In a statement, the office of the county's police commissioner said:

"Suffolk County criminal intelligence detectives received a tip from a Bay Shore-based computer company regarding suspicious computer searches conducted by a recently released employee. The former employee's computer searches took place on this employee's workplace computer. On that computer, the employee searched the terms 'pressure cooker bombs' and 'backpacks'."

After the visit the incident was "determined to be non-criminal in nature", the statement said.

Earlier on Thursday, the FBI told the Guardian that Catalano was visited by the Nassau County police department working in conjunction with Suffolk County police department. "From our understanding, both of those counties are involved," said FBI spokeswoman Kelly Langmesser. She said Suffolk County initiated the action and that Nassau County became involved, but would not elaborate on what that meant.

The Nassau County police department said Catalano "was not visited by the Nassau police department" and denied involvement in the situation.

In a new post on her Tumblr on Thursday, Catalano said: "We found out through the Suffolk police department that the searches involved also things my husband looked up at his old job. We were not made aware of this at the time of questioning and were led to believe it was solely from searches from within our house."
Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/01/new-york-police-terrorism-pressure-cooker
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Post by RealGunner Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:55 am

The demand for P.r.r.essure c00kers is going to fall drastically Laughing
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Post by rwo power Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:57 am

At least the demand to order them online Razz
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Post by Juveman17 Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:06 am

Not sure if it was posted but Snowden has been granted asylum in Russia
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Post by rwo power Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:17 am

In Germany, there are voices getting loud that Edward Snowdon should be invited as a witness  to make testimonies about the NSA proceedings to determine how much of German law was broken, which means he could then put into a witness protection program. (One has to wonder though, if that wouldn't be an even easier way to make him disappear for good then ^^)
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Post by Juveman17 Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:20 am

Good for Germany that people are standing up to this disgrace.
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Post by rwo power Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:49 am

juveman17 wrote:Good for Germany that people are standing up to this disgrace.
That's because we had recent first hand experience (Nazi Germany and G"D"R) what happens when the people in power spy on the population - and where it can lead: to millions of people that don't fit in or say something that doesn't agree with the authorities to be imprisoned or killed.
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Post by Juveman17 Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:59 am

rwo power wrote:
juveman17 wrote:Good for Germany that people are standing up to this disgrace.
That's because we had recent first hand experience (Nazi Germany and G"D"R) what happens when the people in power spy on the population - and where it can lead: to millions of people that don't fit in or say something that doesn't agree with the authorities to be imprisoned or killed.

Hopefully it will lead to some change in Germany and around the world. Shame most of the national politics in the US is corrupted.

In the recent Congressional voting on whether to stop funding the NSA, the Congressmen who voted against the bill received more than double in defense industry campaign contributions than people who voted against it.  Here's a graph.

Move over, Big Brother, NSA is doing it far more efficiently... - Page 4 Defense-contributions-chart1



While it may not seem a big difference, 122% more is a massive difference and a huge incentive for Congressmen to choose which way to vote.

Source: http://boingboing.net/2013/07/27/bribery-pro-nsa-congressional.html
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Post by Juveman17 Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:14 am

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Post by rwo power Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:48 am

@Juveman

Indeed!

You know, the whole current situation eerily reminds me of the questions that were always poised towards Germans: "Didn't you realise what was going on?" and "Why didn't anyone stand up against the proceedings leading to WWII and the holocaust?"

Well, right now the alarm bells ring in any German as every German is taught very thoroughly at school about how the Third Reich and Hitler started to happen.

You had an economy crisis and many discontent people. Then Hitler set up an outside enemy (Jews - or today read Islamists / terrorism) to distract people from the inside problem. Moreover, the Jews had a lot of money and Hitler needed money for his power fantasies, just like today oil is a very sought after commodity.

Then all streams of information were directed in a way that the normal citizens were made to believe what the people in power deemed useful and information that could hut the people in power was carefully put under the table. Of course Hitler had it a bit more difficult as he could only use newspapers and the Wochenschau (in cinemas) for his propaganda.

Of course the propaganda made sure that people believed everything was for their best and it was in everybody's interest to wage a war on the evil Jews (at first the money of the Jews was sufficient, the rest of the world came a little later when Hitler needed even more money to support his megalomaniac ideas).

Of course he set up a very efficient police state, too - and as we know, Germans are very efficient, so they managed to collect information on who was a Jew and thus due to be exterminated down to the nth generation. Ah, and just before that startet, it was of course told everybody "If you don't do anything bad, you have nothing to fear." Do you really think they would have had it so easy to find out all the Jews when they at first thought "Why should be hide that we are Jews - this is nothing wrong after all".

Well, now the NSA and GCHQ and the other secret services involved can easily collect even more data on the people than Hitler's Gestapo or Honecker's Stasi could ever have wished for - including tidbits that currently might still appear innocent, but maybe in the not too far future could easily be used against them. By the way, "Stasi" is short for "Staatssicherheit". In the US they seem to call it very similarly "Homeland Security".

Just look at the current situation in Russia. Only in the last months, Putin decided to crack down hard on homosexuals. If he really wants to exterminate them, he only needs to sift through the online communication / Facebook entries / etc of the Russian people and he will have a nice list of people that he can easily put away, as just last year (or the year before that) there was no legislation that made it illegal to talk about homosexuality in Russia. Today it is suddenly a crime that can be punished. Oops.

You know, I watch how things currently develop, and I read comments in blogs and forums of US and English people who naively say "I don't mind if they collect my private data, I have nothing to hide", and I can but shake my head and wonder if they have learned nothing at all from the atrocities of WWII and the Holocaust.
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Post by Juveman17 Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:56 pm

Ugh Rwo I was posting a full essay on my phone explaining everything and it just refreshed and disappeared :facepalm:

Ill try and make my post again on my computer
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Post by rwo power Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:31 pm

juveman17 wrote:Ugh Rwo I was posting a full essay on my phone explaining everything and it just refreshed and disappeared :facepalm:

Ill try and make my post again on my computer
Smartphones are evil, you know ^^
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Post by Juveman17 Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:25 pm

Haha yea ugh I'm just pushed because it was a really long and well written post
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Post by rwo power Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:11 pm

juveman17 wrote:Haha yea ugh I'm just pushed because it was a really long and well written post
If it was critical versus the NSA, maybe it got filtered by them Razz
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Post by Juveman17 Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:12 pm

Conspiracy theory? Edit: I love the NSA!
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Post by rwo power Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:04 am

See! It is them all the time!!
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Post by Juveman17 Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:28 am

Haha and il post what I was going to say soon I'm still on my phone
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Post by Juveman17 Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:49 pm

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-intelligence-sends-massive-amounts-of-data-to-the-nsa-a-914821.html
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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:27 am

Damn I guess i'm being monitored.. it would be a shame if they saw what i had on my computer.. inappropriate videos, if you know what I mean.
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Post by rwo power Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:31 am

juveman17 wrote:http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-intelligence-sends-massive-amounts-of-data-to-the-nsa-a-914821.html
Exactly that's why quite some people are going pretty ballistic here. Especially our president Gauck, who was involved with laying open the things the Stasi did, is not amused at all.
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Post by Juveman17 Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:10 pm



Goodbye innocent until proven guilty
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