Move over, Big Brother, NSA is doing it far more efficiently...

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Post by rwo power Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:43 pm

I guess the people who always asked "How could the Germans allow the Third Reich to happen with its totalitarian structures etc" should think twice now and watch what's happening around them right now.

You might want to read about this, just to see where certain things might be leading to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933

(E.g. look at the Patriot Act and its effect on the US constitution and look at Article 2 in the above Enabling Act. The Article 4 looks treacherously like what the NSA is doing with its snooping around as it certainly ignored any contracts with other countries etc.)

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Post by Juveman17 Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:22 pm

Sounds exactly like the Patriot Act. Also reminds me of how the President no longer has to ask Congrss to go to war. Ex: every single war after WW2
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Post by Juveman17 Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:01 pm

All I can see in the future is further steps toward Totalitarianism :facepalm:
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Post by TalkingReckless Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:52 am

Guess what GCHQ raided The Guardian's office and destroyed their Hard Drives

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/19/u-k-government-thought-destroying-guardian-hard-drives-would-stop-snowden-stories/


Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger on what happened
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/19/david-miranda-schedule7-danger-reporters
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Post by Juveman17 Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:18 am

Oh god :facepalm:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/19/u-k-government-thought-destroying-guardian-hard-drives-would-stop-snowden-stories/

In a remarkable post, Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger describes how the British government raided the Guardian’s offices in order to destroy hard drives containing information provided by NSA leaker Edward Snowden. The British government had been pressuring the Guardian to return or destroy the Snowden documents. Rusbridger says he tried to explain that destroying hard drives would be pointless:
I explained to the man from Whitehall about the nature of international collaborations and the way in which, these days, media organisations could take advantage of the most permissive legal environments. Bluntly, we did not have to do our reporting from London. Already most of the NSA stories were being reported and edited out of New York. And had it occurred to him that Greenwald lived in Brazil?
The man was unmoved. And so one of the more bizarre moments in the Guardian’s long history occurred – with two GCHQ security experts overseeing the destruction of hard drives in the Guardian’s basement just to make sure there was nothing in the mangled bits of metal which could possibly be of any interest to passing Chinese agents… Whitehall was satisfied, but it felt like a peculiarly pointless piece of symbolism that understood nothing about the digital age.
Rusbridger says the Guardian’s investigative work will continue. “We will continue to do patient, painstaking reporting on the Snowden documents,” he writes. “We just won’t do it in London.”
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Post by rwo power Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:07 am

Wow. Funnily this shows again how little some parts of governments / governmental agencies understand of computers and the internet. Or as our chancellor Angie said "Das Internet ist für uns alle Neuland" (= "The internet is a new territory for us all.")

But other than that the destruction of the hard drives was pretty pointless, it again showed how the English authorities want to try and intimidate the people who are just publishing independent news. I bet they would prefer to have just a "Pravda" as news outlet there, like in the good, old, Soviet days...

I think by now people should really start to wake up. The public outcry is much to small. I'm very much appalled that there are always numerous comments under such articles where people say "the government is right, it is just for the fight against terrorism". Hello? Replace "terrorism" by "communism", "jews", "capitalism" (take your pick according to the totalitarian regime you are looking at), and you know where that propaganda comes from.

By the way, you might want to take a look at the Spiegel scandal from 1962:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegel_scandal
In Germany this led to a ruling of the Federal Constitutional Court of Germany which strengthened the Freedom of the Press very much in the end.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
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Post by Juveman17 Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:36 am

See the problem is rwo is that everyone is content. They are content and comfortable with their everyday lifestyle and aren't bothered by things that "dont affect them".
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Post by rwo power Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:37 am

These things won't affect them? Well, that's what the Germans in 1933 thought, too.
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Post by Juveman17 Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:45 am

Yep and thats why we are heading towards a dictatorship. It's only a matter of time.
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Post by rwo power Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:55 am

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." - Martin Niemöller, theologian
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Post by Juveman17 Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:41 am

That basically describes the current situation in the US. Great quote rwo.
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Post by Juveman17 Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:08 am

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Post by rwo power Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:26 am

*nod* Indeed. So the UK and US fought against Hitler and his methods, but it seems they ultimately lost.
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Post by Juveman17 Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:34 am

Yep. Ironically enough we are becoming what we defeated.
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Post by Juveman17 Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:49 am

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/317971-nsa-surveillance-said-to-be-broader-than-initially-believed#ixzz2cZNG7EAZ

The National Security Agency’s (NSA) reach covers about 75 percent of all U.S. Internet traffic through a slew of partnerships with some of the largest telecom companies in the country, according to a Wall Street Journal report released late Tuesday.

According to the report, gathered from interviews with current and former government officials and telecom industry workers, telecom companies like AT&T filter the data for the NSA, but in looking for communications that begin or end outside of the country, often sweep up unrelated domestic communications.

In addition, the surveillance network at times retains the content of emails and phone calls sent between U.S. citizens as part of a dragnet meant to capture correspondences between foreign targets.
The NSA defended the practice, telling the  Journal that if domestic communications are “incidentally collected during NSA’s lawful signals intelligence activities,” that the agency follows “minimization procedures that are approved by the U.S. attorney general and designed to protect the privacy of United States persons.”
The NSA is not “wallowing will-nilly” in the domestic communications of U.S. citizens, the official added.
The latest revelations come on the heels of a report last week that the NSA broke privacy rules or illegally overstepped its authority thousands of times to obtain communications of U.S. citizens and foreigners in the U.S.

The audit found the NSA obtained private communications thousands of times without proper authorization because of typographical errors or a failure to properly implement compliance safeguards.


Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/317971-nsa-surveillance-said-to-be-broader-than-initially-believed#ixzz2caVIY8bc
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook
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Post by Juveman17 Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:52 am

Glenn Greenwald:

"US/UK imprisons whistleblowers, calls journalists criminals for working with their sources, detain my partner under a TERRORISM law and take his passwords to his Facebook and email accounts, block Evo Morales' plane from flying, smash the Guardian's hard drives, but - WE are the ones being "threatening"

Great quote
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Post by rwo power Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:31 am

So the innocent have nothing to fear? After David Miranda we now know where this leads

The destructive power of state snooping is on display for all to see. The press must not yield to this intimidation

(c) Simon Jenkins, The Guardian, Tuesday 20 August 2013

You've had your fun: now we want the stuff back. With these words the British government embarked on the most bizarre act of state censorship of the internet age. In a Guardian basement, officials from GCHQ gazed with satisfaction on a pile of mangled hard drives like so many book burners sent by the Spanish Inquisition. They were unmoved by the fact that copies of the drives were lodged round the globe. They wanted their symbolic auto-da-fe. Had the Guardian refused this ritual they said they would have obtained a search and destroy order from a compliant British court.

Two great forces are now in fierce but unresolved contention. The material revealed by Edward Snowden through the Guardian and the Washington Post is of a wholly different order from WikiLeaks and other recent whistle-blowing incidents. It indicates not just that the modern state is gathering, storing and processing for its own ends electronic communication from around the world; far more serious, it reveals that this power has so corrupted those wielding it as to put them beyond effective democratic control. It was not the scope of NSA surveillance that led to Snowden's defection. It was hearing his boss lie to Congress about it for hours on end.

Last week in Washington, Congressional investigators discovered that the America's foreign intelligence surveillance court, a body set up specifically to oversee the NSA, had itself been defied by the agency "thousands of times". It was victim to "a culture of misinformation" as orders to destroy intercepts, emails and files were simply disregarded; an intelligence community that seems neither intelligent nor a community commanding a global empire that could suborn the world's largest corporations, draw up targets for drone assassination, blackmail US Muslims into becoming spies and haul passengers off planes.

Yet like all empires, this one has bred its own antibodies. The American (or Anglo-American?) surveillance industry has grown so big by exploiting laws to combat terrorism that it is as impossible to manage internally as it is to control externally. It cannot sustain its own security. Some two million people were reported to have had access to the WikiLeaks material disseminated by Bradley Manning from his Baghdad cell. Snowden himself was a mere employee of a subcontractor to the NSA, yet had full access to its data. The thousands, millions, billions of messages now being devoured daily by US data storage centres may be beyond the dreams of Space Odyssey's HAL 9000. But even HAL proved vulnerable to human morality. Manning and Snowden cannot have been the only US officials to have pondered blowing a whistle on data abuse. There must be hundreds more waiting in the wings – and always will be.

There is clearly a case for prior censorship of some matters of national security. A state secret once revealed cannot be later rectified by a mere denial. Yet the parliamentary and legal institutions for deciding these secrets are plainly no longer fit for purpose. They are treated by the services they supposedly supervise with falsehoods and contempt. In America, the constitution protects the press from pre-publication censorship, leaving those who reveal state secrets to the mercy of the courts and the judgment of public debate – hence the Putinesque treatment of Manning and Snowden. But at least Congress has put the US director of national intelligence, James Clapper, under severe pressure. Even President Barack Obama has welcomed the debate and accepted that the Patriot Act may need revision.

In Britain, there has been no such response. GCHQ could boast to its American counterpart of its "light oversight regime compared to the US". Parliamentary and legal control is a charade, a patsy of the secrecy lobby. The press, normally robust in its treatment of politicians, seems cowed by a regime of informal notification of "defence sensitivity". This D-Notice system used to be confined to cases where the police felt lives to be at risk in current operations. In the case of Snowden the D-Notice has been used to warn editors off publishing material potentially embarrassing to politicians and the security services under the spurious claim that it "might give comfort to terrorists".

Most of the British press (though not the BBC, to its credit) has clearly felt inhibited. As with the "deterrent" smashing of Guardian hard drives and the harassing of David Miranda at Heathrow, a regime of prior restraint has been instigated in Britain whose apparent purpose seems to be simply to show off the security services as macho to their American friends.

Those who question the primacy of the "mainstream" media in the digital age should note that it has been two traditional newspapers, in London and Washington, that have researched, co-ordinated and edited the Snowden revelations. They have even held back material that the NSA and GCHQ had proved unable to protect. No blog, Twitter or Facebook campaign has the resources or the clout to confront the power of the state.

There is no conceivable way copies of the Snowden revelations seized this week at Heathrow could aid terrorism or "threaten the security of the British state" – as charged today by Mark Pritchard, an MP on the parliamentary committee on national security strategy. When the supposed monitors of the secret services merely parrot their jargon against press freedom, we should know this regime is not up to its job.

The war between state power and those holding it to account needs constant refreshment. As Snowden shows, the whistleblowers and hacktivists can win the occasional skirmish. But it remains worrying that many otherwise liberal-minded Britons seem reluctant to take seriously the abuses revealed in the nature and growth of state surveillance. The arrogance of this abuse is now widespread. The same police force that harassed Miranda for nine hours at Heathrow is the one recently revealed as using surveillance to blackmail Lawrence family supporters and draw up lists of trouble-makers to hand over to private contractors. We can see where this leads.

I hesitate to draw parallels with history, but I wonder how those now running the surveillance state – and their appeasers – would have behaved under the totalitarian regimes of the 20th century. We hear today so many phrases we have heard before. The innocent have nothing to fear. Our critics merely comfort the enemy. You cannot be too safe. Loyalty is all. As one official said in wielding his legal stick over the Guardian: "You have had your debate. There's no need to write any more."

Yes, there bloody well is.
Source: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/20/innocent-fear-david-miranda
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Post by Juveman17 Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:34 pm

Great article, Rwo.
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Post by rwo power Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:27 pm

Well, I guess you'd have to thank Simon Jenkins of the Guardian for writing it Smile

BTW, your posts above were very good and telling, too *bows*
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Post by Juveman17 Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:16 pm

Thanks rwo Smile
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Post by la bestia negra Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:49 pm

i have all the respect for him and all but im a bit skeptical there were many whistle blowers over the same issue in the past. but none had the amount of exposure he did
how come ? is the media trying to hide another story or something
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Post by rwo power Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:02 pm

Well, I guess the others didn't have the exposure as they ended up in US prisons fast enough. Edward Snowden obviously planned his info coming out a bit better, it seems, and he deposited his material with the Guardian, who obviously don't want the stuff to get forgotten fast and so publish it in smaller doses over a longer time-frame.
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Post by FennecFox7 Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:12 am

He's retarded
basically ruined his life by saying ("exposing") something we already know. this has been happening since the bush admin
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Post by rwo power Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:21 am

Before that, people only suspected it. Now we have solid proof. There is a certain difference.
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Post by Juveman17 Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:36 pm

Giggity if he didnt bring the info out the government could have easily just denied the claims and moved on.
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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:25 am

he ruined his life over something like that.. its stupid

everyone knew about this
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