Re: Move over, Big Brother, NSA is doing it far more efficiently...

by I Have Mono Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:10 pm

The American citizen of today are a lot better armed then the German citizen of the 40's so it would be hard to do that on a nationwide scale, one reason why Americans like their guns.

by I Have Mono Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:15 pm

No I talk about shit like that all the time but if you start talking about c-4 ing real stuff where the problem begins.

Freedom of speech has its limits you don't read the news where people post stuff on Facebook etc... and the next day the FBI or Secret service showing up at their door lecturing them about how they can go to jail and the person says its only a joke ?

by rwo power Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:18 pm

RealGunner wrote:If they start checking people on mentioning b0/\/\bs etc. Then they find out they are pirating. Will they act? They should according to the law.

Will it not have a domino affect on rest of the people? I mean probably 70% of people with internet pirate knowingly or not knowingly.

Exactly that is the problem. I guess now you really understand why I do what I do when I told you I neither use Twitter, Facebook, Skype, Google, Youtube etc and why I don't have a mobile phone either as I do not like the idea of people being able to track me wherever I go. ^^

RealGunner wrote:So no more freedom of speech then?

If i am telling my mate about how i deployed C-4 behind the building on counter strike. I have to be discrete about that in the fear of being flagged?

Exactly.

I Have Mono wrote:The American citizen of today are a lot better armed then the German citizen of the 40's so it would be hard to do that on a nationwide scale, one reason why Americans like their guns.

Well, nobody expected the Spanish inquisition...

Do you really think the turn of a state into a totalitarian state wouldn't be a subtle process? You might want to read the novel "The Wave" one day. And don't underestimate what people might do if they scent an advantage for themselves....

by I Have Mono Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:26 pm

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/213736

Freedom of speech in reality means you are free to say 99.99% of things just don't put these words together. There are always limits to what you can say or do.

The Feds don't care if you pirate 1 song off of the Internet or you say I drank alcohol underage etc they are focuses on national security not petty crimes that you local police department couldn't care about.

by rwo power Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:29 pm

Well, there are allegedly about 850 000 people involved in sifting through the data. How many of them can really be trusted not to use information they find for their own means?

by I Have Mono Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:35 pm

rwo power wrote:
Exactly that is the problem. I guess now you really understand why I do what I do when I told you I neither use Twitter, Facebook, Skype, Google, Youtube etc and why I don't have a mobile phone either as I do not like the idea of people being able to track me wherever I go. ^^.

Perfect way to get the BND to start a file on you Laughing

by I Have Mono Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:37 pm

rwo power wrote:Well, there are allegedly about 850 000 people involved in sifting through the data. How many of them can really be trusted not to use information they find for their own means?

The FBI only has like 15000 people, no way the NSA has 850,000 employees.

by I Have Mono Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:44 pm

And tgere will always be people doing shit they shouldn't, corrupt cops, politicians, terrorists, serial killers, drug dealers, riport Murdoch, Bernie Madoff, etc... That's the problem, the government is simply trying to stop the small percentage of wrong doers where it relates to national security.
The problem is only when it becomes larger than that, omg someone shoplift a 25cent gum ball, he must be a career criminal.

by rwo power Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:46 pm

I Have Mono wrote:Perfect way to get the BND to start a file on you

Well, I dare them to try. There is no photo of me online either and my nicks are not really trackable either Razz

by rwo power Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:47 pm

I Have Mono wrote:The FBI only has like 15000 people, no way the NSA has 850,000 employees.

The numbers were of the GCHQ, whose work seems to put the NSA's to shame. Oh, and the NSA use civil contractors, remember? Snowden worked for such a company. ^^

by I Have Mono Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:52 pm

What is England population like 60 million ? 850,000 work directly or indirectly for GCHQ ? That's one in like 62 and national security matters arnt exactly something countries outsource to India and china Laughing

by I Have Mono Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:56 pm

If you are up to no good You should be much more concerned that the governments has satillite capable of tracking an item the size of a golf ball all the way around the world not the Feds arresting you for pirating music.

You never know the government is tracing you and it can go on for 6 months 5 years it depends how important you are.

by rwo power Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:02 am

Well, looks like you are fine with having no secrets whatsoever from the government or whoever can access the data concerning you. I guess you might think differently once for example your health record or a thorough database about what you like etc is accessible to any company where you either try to get employed or get some insurance or whatever. Mind you, data of any kind is money, and with the countries going ever deeper into the red, don't you think the government might consider using their assets to make money?

BTW, fun read: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&hp&

by I Have Mono Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:16 am

People are to paranoid about the government, trust me there is nothing to be alarmed about.

by rwo power Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:29 am

I envy you your trust ^^

by RedOranje Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:46 am

I Have Mono wrote:People are to paranoid about the government, trust me there is nothing to be alarmed about.

Uhh, I think the recent issues have proven the situation to be just about opposite of that, actually.

by I Have Mono Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:56 am

Concerning but not alarming.

So the attorney general is reviewing himself and a little bit of spying on us citizens comes to light. Has been going on for decades only now everyone has a computer, iPhone, tablet with Internet to talk about if on.

It's for your safety, don't worry be happy.

What's the difference between spying on a American and spying on a Mexican or a German ? A security threat is a security threat and should be dealt with the same regardless of nationality. Just because your mom shot you out on us soil doesn't give you the right to be doing shady stuff.

by RedOranje Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:08 am

No one is arguing that we do "have the right to be doing shady stuff." We're arguing that the government does NOT have that right, especially when it involves infringing a basic, Supreme Court affirmed right to privacy for citizens who HAVE NOT "been doing shady stuff." Suggesting that only those who are doing wrong need to be concerned/bothered about this and/or that infringing a Constitutional right is somehow justified by an unsupported claim to greater safety is flawed while attempting to twist the morality issue by bringing up different nationalities is both flawed AND fallacious (spying is immoral regardless of nationality, but illegal when done on US citizens).

by I Have Mono Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:14 am

The supreme court has always been the law of the land but ita biased. If the supreme court justices are impartial like they are supposed to be why does it matter if they are all white, all mexican, all black, all men, or all women, they are not impartial thats why.
So to tell me something that gets passed 5-4 by Biased judges can not be bent a little is ridiculous.

The us constitution is so outdated its not even funny, what founding father had to foresight to think in 250 years we would have giant satillites, the ability to instantly communicate with each other, automatic weapons.

The country is so divided its basically impossible to amend the constitution with anything valid. So yes I'm ok with bending the rules a little bit.

by I Have Mono Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:17 am

How do we know a citizen has not been doing shady stuff unless they are being monitered ? By a computer that looks for trigger words and flags you for a review.
Ok you at fine nothing wrong and no consequences felt.

by RedOranje Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:19 am

So it's ok to treat people as though they ARE doing something wrong because they MIGHT do something wrong? Even though the vast, vast majority are not and will not? Illogical.

And you're arguing that the US Constitution and Supreme Court and outdated and biased... but that the government collecting personal information in secret and against it's own laws is perfectly acceptable. Absolutely unbelievable.

by I Have Mono Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:28 am

Im grateful that the us hasn't been attacked since 9/11 when before we were attacked every 3-5 years consistent. People have gotte. Close but no one has been successful and that's why I'm ok with giving up some liberties at the expense of living. Who cares if the government finds out I have a cavity and store it. Whoopadie doo who cares

Filter, screened, and forgotten, not stored for eternity.

So you have a problem with being monitered when the effects of being monitered are only felt if you are doing something wrong ?

by rwo power Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:39 am

I Have Mono wrote:Filter, screened, and forgotten, not stored for eternity.

The new data center in Utah is designed to store all the data the NSA can get for at least 100 or so years. So it will not be forgotten any time soon.

I Have Mono wrote:So you have a problem with being monitered when the effects of being monitered are only felt if you are doing something wrong ?

The problem is - things that are not wrong now can easily be wrong in 5 years or 10 years etc. And then the data can simply be re-sifted and lo and behold, they get everybody as the data is still available and can be re-checked whenever necessary.

You know, being a Jew was no problem before Hitler, but from 1933 to 1945 it could get you killed. Wanting to leave the GDR was a crime from around 1960 to 1989 and could get you imprisoned and your kids taken away and given to strangers or shelters.

Do you really want to take the chance that whatever is legal and okay now will be so in some years to come?

By the way, do you think this here is 100 percent legit?

At various points over the past two years, Internal Revenue Service officials singled out for scrutiny not only groups with “tea party” or “patriot” in their names but also nonprofit groups that criticized the government and sought to educate Americans about the U.S. Constitution, according to documents in an audit conducted by the agency’s inspector general.

The documents, obtained by The Washington Post from a congressional aide with knowledge of the findings, show that the IRS field office in charge of evaluating applications for tax-exempt status decided to focus on groups making statements that “criticize how the country is being run” and those that were involved in educating Americans “on the Constitution and Bill of Rights.”

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/13/1208749/-Draft-audit-shows-IRS-non-profit-scrutiny-extended-beyond-tea-party-and-patriot-keywords

by RedOranje Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:49 am

I Have Mono wrote:Im grateful that the us hasn't been attacked since 9/11 when before we were attacked every 3-5 years consistent. People have gotte. Close but no one has been successful and that's why I'm ok with giving up some liberties at the expense of living. Who cares if the government finds out I have a cavity and store it. Whoopadie doo who cares

Filter, screened, and forgotten, not stored for eternity.

So you have a problem with being monitered when the effects of being monitered are only felt if you are doing something wrong ?

Fallacy after fallacy, and lies/incorrect facts on top of it. The information IS being stored indefinitely. The information IS being screened even if you are doing nothing wrong. Invasion of privacy is an invasion of privacy whether you're looking at new laptops, pokemon stats, a football forum, hockey scores, or some weird type of porn. Regardless of how it may or may not be used, the issue is that it's being collected without probable cause or warrant.

No evidence has been provided yet (other than unsubstantiated claims) that this monitoring has helped to avert attacks. Claims otherwise are just that... claims. Even then, trading personal liberty for supposed security is just trading one form of fear for another. The fact that you're so willing to jump on the fear-based bandwagon is concerning.

And no attacks since 9/11? Where in the hell have you been? We had a terrorist attack just earlier this year.

by I Have Mono Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:12 am

I'm ok with that chance because I'm trustworthy in that 1) the majority of the military would not put up with that and 2)that because of the number of guns in the US and gangs it would be gorilla warfare all over the United States if the government ever tried that.

Im ok with sacrificing my privacy so that I can live without being in constant fear.
The world is not this Utopia where I can be 100% safe while maintains 100% of my privacy. It never will be. There will always be bad people doing bad things.

And yes I passed right over the attack in Boston, 2001-2013 is far more peaceful than
Then Lebanon 83, world trade center 93, OKC bombing in 95, World Trade Center 2001. Etc..I'm not going to spend the time to write down every major but we're

Can't deny we have been more secure in the United States since the government began monitoring us more.

by rwo power Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:17 am

Hm. I think this pro-gun stance is actually a bit bewildering...

Americans hate terrorists and love our kids, right? So you might be shocked to know that preschoolers with guns have taken more lives so far this year than the single U.S. terrorist attack, which claimed four lives in Boston.

This is admittedly tongue-in-cheek, but one has to wonder if the NSA's PRISM program would have saved more lives had it been monitoring toddlers - or gun owners - rather than suspected terrorists.

In 2010, 13,186 people died in terrorist attacks worldwide, while 31,672 people were killed with firearms in America alone, reports CNN's Samuel Burke.

http://www.sott.net/article/262876-Toddlers-with-guns-kill-more-Americans-than-terrorists

Then ponder this: Americans suffer assaults on their privacy — they are groped in public and wiretapped en masse — and surrender their constitutional protections against unwarranted searches in the name of the war on terror, yet they cannot muster the will to protect children from mass murder with military-style weapons. We have spent more than $1 trillion on homeland security since Sept. 11, 2001, yet have withheld annual funding of less than $3 million for research by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on gun violence.

Why are the First, Fourth and Fifth amendments subject to erosion in the name of homeland security, but the Second Amendment is beyond compromise in the name of saving innocent lives?

The risks of terrorism are not so much greater than the risks of gun violence that a disproportionate response is justified. Between 1969 and 2009, according to a 2011 Heritage Foundation study, 5,586 people were killed in terrorist attacks against the United States or its interests abroad. By comparison, about 30,000 people were killed by guns in the United States every year between 1986 and 2010. This means that about five times as many Americans are killed every year by guns than have been killed in terrorist attacks since Richard Nixon took office.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-03-01/opinions/37364660_1_gun-violence-hadiya-pendleton-gun-industry

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