Summer Transfer Window 2013

Coutinho and Sturridge are forwards and the mistakes they might commit won't be game changing. On the other hand, when you're paying 15m for a CB, he is expected to be perfect.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:

RedOranje wrote:Amazing that some of you don't rate Papadopoulos when he's considered to be a very impressive player AND prospect by those that watched him regularly before his extended injury break. I haven't, so can't really comment, but it seems telling that when Williams was the main target he was consistently put down and now that Papadopoulos is getting attention he's suddenly not rated...

He'll cost huge, is young and inexperienced. Williams on the other hand is a leader at the back. I want experience in this team.

Papadopoulos has played multiple matches in the Euros, CL, and EL as well as being a consistent starter for a Bundesliga side (one that regularly competes for their CL spots) when fit. That's hardly inexperienced.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Coutinho and Sturridge are forwards and the mistakes they might commit won't be game changing. On the other hand, when you're paying 15m for a CB, he is expected to be perfect.

No CB is ever expected to be perfect, because no player CAN be perfect. And £15m for a CB is just the current market, not some extravagant luxury expenditure.

RedOranje wrote:

ExtremistEnigma wrote:

RedOranje wrote:Amazing that some of you don't rate Papadopoulos when he's considered to be a very impressive player AND prospect by those that watched him regularly before his extended injury break. I haven't, so can't really comment, but it seems telling that when Williams was the main target he was consistently put down and now that Papadopoulos is getting attention he's suddenly not rated...

He'll cost huge, is young and inexperienced. Williams on the other hand is a leader at the back. I want experience in this team.

Papadopoulos has played multiple matches in the Euros, CL, and EL as well as being a consistent starter for a Bundesliga side (one that regularly competes for their CL spots) when fit. That's hardly inexperienced.

You can't tell me a 21 year old who has less than 100 games under his belt is experienced enough to play in PL. Partnering him with occasional brainfarting Agger is even more riskier.

I don't believe in wasting so much of our budget on a single player.

Agreed, no player can be perfect, but CBs are expected to be almost perfect in whatever they do. Besides, paying such a hefty amount on a 21 year old and making him a first teamer straight away will put a LOT of pressure on him.

The owners and BR have been constantly telling us that the squad needs experience. Now I'm gonna believe that when I see it. You don't win anything with kids...

ExtremistEnigma wrote:You can't tell me a 21 year old who has less than 100 games under his belt is experienced enough to play in PL. Partnering him with occasional brainfarting Agger is even more riskier.

I think this is the general problem in the PL and why there are almost no English youngsters coming through while in countries like Germany or Spain you have already 18 to 20 year olds that are fantastic: They get played and they get experience even at young age..

I can assure you, Kyriakos Papadopoulos had sufficient experience to play in a CL quarter final and excel there when he just turned 19.

Did you know that he got his debut in the Greek Super League when he was just 15?

By the way, Schalke manager Horst Heldt recently said they will do their utmost to keep Papa at Schalke, so don't expect him to come cheap in any way.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:The owners and BR have been constantly telling us that the squad needs experience. Now I'm gonna believe that when I see it. You don't win anything with kids...

Dortmund in the last two years says hello

Monaco have made a surprise inquiry for England striker Andy Carroll, who is set to leave Liverpool this summer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10066561/Monaco-considering-surprise-move-for-Andy-Carroll-as-Liverpool-striker-considers-options.html

Seems a bit out there as a possibility but The Telegraph are a bit more reliable than most of their counterparts (and I'm assuming that carries over to Sundays). Would be a great chance to get some real value for him if true, as Monaco certainly have the funds to pay £17m even if West Ham and Newcastle don't.

From Falcao to Carroll. They're doing the same mistake we did.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:

RedOranje wrote:

ExtremistEnigma wrote:
He'll cost huge, is young and inexperienced. Williams on the other hand is a leader at the back. I want experience in this team.

Papadopoulos has played multiple matches in the Euros, CL, and EL as well as being a consistent starter for a Bundesliga side (one that regularly competes for their CL spots) when fit. That's hardly inexperienced.

You can't tell me a 21 year old who has less than 100 games under his belt is experienced enough to play in PL. Partnering him with occasional brainfarting Agger is even more riskier.

I don't believe in wasting so much of our budget on a single player.

Agreed, no player can be perfect, but CBs are expected to be almost perfect in whatever they do. Besides, paying such a hefty amount on a 21 year old and making him a first teamer straight away will put a LOT of pressure on him.

The owners and BR have been constantly telling us that the squad needs experience. Now I'm gonna believe that when I see it. You don't win anything with kids...

Papadapolous has played in the top-flight for over 3 years now. He's also played in Europe. How exactly is he inexperienced? He has more experience than half our squad! He's also mentally strong. There will be no extra pressure on him for whatever his price-tag is. 17m is also a fair amount considering this current market. He will also be surrounded by the likes of Johnson, Agger and Enrique. And Reina if he's still here. It's not like his surrounded by kids and he'll be caught out.

Also, how exactly is Williams a "leader" and "experienced"? The mans never played in Europe, he's only ever been in the top flight for 2 years now and he hasn't even been consistently good. He's an average player, nothing more, nothing less. Papa is better at a younger age, and will only get better.

Regarding Papadapolous

1. Age matters. But more important is skill and attitude. I kept vouching for a young Spearing over an experienced Poulsen. There is a host of players (Gerrard, Owen) who made their mark at young age.

2. We have to accept the fact that at our current state, we can't have both skill and experience.

3. How do you gather experience! If Papa ends up with 10 games it will only hinder his progress. The reason Kelly burst into prominance is because he had a string of games.

4. I don't know this Papa kid (apart from the fact I used to sign him for free) but if he have played that many games, it really means he is good. Schalke is not a small team, they could have bought an experienced player if they needed.

5. The price seems a bit steep.

Monaco for Carroll I hope it goes through though. Would take him away from the PL and having to defend him in set pieces next season and also we'll still be able to cheer for him. Obviously they will actually be able to pay for him nicely.

As for Papa, he's a physical specimen. He's got the sort of strength that cannot be gained through training. He's the exact sort of CB we need. Our back line has been bullied all year by tall strong target men. No one, and I mean no one, can bully Papa though. He's what Skrtel was supposed to be, only dare I say stronger and much much younger. I've even come to terms with the £17m fee that's being thrown around.

Papadapolous has played in the top-flight for over 3 years now. He's also played in Europe. How exactly is he inexperienced? He has more experience than half our squad! He's also mentally strong. There will be no extra pressure on him for whatever his price-tag is. 17m is also a fair amount considering this current market. He will also be surrounded by the likes of Johnson, Agger and Enrique. And Reina if he's still here. It's not like his surrounded by kids and he'll be caught out.

Also, how exactly is Williams a "leader" and "experienced"? The mans never played in Europe, he's only ever been in the top flight for 2 years now and he hasn't even been consistently good. He's an average player, nothing more, nothing less. Papa is better at a younger age, and will only get better.

Oh ffs, just because he hasn't played in CL means he's inexperienced?

He's not a leader? Please go.. that's why he captains both club and his country.

When you're paying such an amount of money, pressure is obliged to get to you. And the jump from Germany to England is pretty big. He'll require 3-4 seasons to adapt itself. I don't believe in wasting so much of budget on a single player.. the risk involved is huge.

1. Age matters. But more important is skill and attitude. I kept vouching for a young Spearing over an experienced Poulsen. There is a host of players (Gerrard, Owen) who made their mark at young age.

2. We have to accept the fact that at our current state, we can't have both skill and experience.

3. How do you gather experience! If Papa ends up with 10 games it will only hinder his progress. The reason Kelly burst into prominance is because he had a string of games.

4. I don't know this Papa kid (apart from the fact I used to sign him for free) but if he have played that many games, it really means he is good. Schalke is not a small team, they could have bought an experienced player if they needed.

5. The price seems a bit steep.

1. Yeah.. Poulsen is a regular for Ajax now whereas Spearing plays for a Championship club. Agree with what you said about young players, but again that is applicable to midfielders and forwards. Sterling, 18 year old, played 60% of our games this season ffs. Even Wisdom and Kelly have not directly been utilized as CBs. Carra played variety of positions before he was experienced enough to move to the center.

2. This is such bull.. Man City got Kompany when they were hardly a powerhouse, Tottenham got Vertonghen this season for cheap without CL football and Arsenal got Koscielny for cheap as well. Such players still exist you know.. Alderweireld is one example.

3. Kelly was not a first teamer.. Papadopoulos is directly meant to be.

5. The price is huge.. there are only around 15 CBs who have been bought for more amount of money. The funny thing is.. most of these were 25+ when they were bought. Others who weren't, had a large number of games under their belt. (Ferdinand played a whooping 200 games before he had joined United, David Luiz with almost 200 games as well before Chelsea)

Too many 'ffs' for silly topics i see . . . depressing signs

Hope we sell Suarez, good player but he is ruining the clubs image. A bit like Mourinho has done at Madrid. Hopefully the fact he will be banned for the first 6 games next season helps persuades him to go.

Andy Hunter on Guardian says a deal is believed to have been agreed in principle with Toure - he will undergo a medical after City's US tour [ Free transfer? ]

BILD reports #LFC are interested in Hannover's goalkeeper Ron-Robert Zieler.

Kolo Toure?? That came out of nowhere

Kolo Toure would be free, as his contract with City ends in June. His wages, however, are a question mark... as is his current ability.

As a depth signing, on squad member wages, I'd be ok with it... as a starter and/or on high wages though this seems nonsensical.

You would think guys like Kelly and Wisdom would be enough cover for 4th and 5th choice CBs

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10069737/Liverpool-close-to-signing-Manchester-City-defender-Kolo-Toure.html

Toure was once one of the most highly regarded centre-halves in the country, moving to Manchester City for £16 million in 2009, and Rodgers will feel that if he can regain full fitness with regular football he will be a useful asset.

The Liverpool manager is anxious for a proven Premier League defender to join his squad alongside a developing star.

In recent weeks, the Merseyside club have also assessed Schalke’s Greek defender Kyriakos Papadopoulos and Sporting Lisbon’s Tiago Llori.

Rodgers is also eager to be reunited with Swansea captain Ashley Williams, but his age and valuation in excess of £10 million have made it increasingly difficult to conceive such a transfer.

Much depends on the future of Martin Skrtel, who has been out of the side since January. A substantial bid for Skrtel would offer Rodgers an opportunity to reassess - Zenit St Petersburg were eager to re-sign the centre-half in January - but if a valuation of Skrtel beyond £12 million was not met the Liverpool manager is equally willing to give the Slovakian another opportunity to rediscover his form.

That's from The Telegraph's report on Kolo. From the sound of things Papadopoulos would be considered a "developing star" and Kolo would purely be signed for depth. It also sounds as though Skrtel could play a role next season, unless we get a significant bid. Overall that plan doesn't sound too bad to me... assuming we get a proper player as one of the CBs (Papa) should Skrtel actually leave. It would mean we almost break even in that area (£12m+ for Skrtel, similar for Papadopoulos).

That would leave us with:
Agger
Papadopoulos
Kolo Toure
Kelly
Wisdom


Bit of a risk going with 3 somewhat unproven (in recent seasons, at least) CBs for depth and two with a history of injury issues as our (likely) first choices though.

Thiago Ilori is a must i think, just because of the potential the kid has. His price tag is next to nothing right now but that window will be closing with the every passing month.

Although i like the thought process behind that Red, i'm still not sold on Toure.

I know nothing of Llori, but to say anyone is a "must" bothers me a bit.

RedOranje wrote:I know nothing of Llori, but to say anyone is a "must" bothers me a bit.

Word choice might have been over the top but the kid has potential to be a 20m+ CB in the future. Getting him for 3m+ now will be advantageous on many different levels, which is why we're being linked strongly in the first place, he fits the FSG and Rodgers type of signing perfectly.

That may be true but we've not exactly done well in developing young CBs even when they're already impressing at their age (see Wilson) and he would potentially block the development of Kelly/Wisdom at CB, which is something I thought you were hoping to see.

Further, assuming the Toure link is accurate are you sure you want to be relying upon Llori, Kelly, and Wisdom as back-up to Toure/Skrtel and Agger? Seems a bit of a risk to have such young depth...

Too much is being out of youth. If the player is at least 20 and good enough, I don't see the problem with playing them regularly. Look at Coutinho and Henderson. Kelly is going to be 24 next season, I'm not worried about his age at all, in fact, he's entering his prime physical years. Papa will turn 22 and Ilori 21 next season respectively, again I don't have an issue with age as long as they are not 17-18 years old a la Sterling and Suso who are physically not developed as grown men and are still boys.

Toure is sooo washed out now, it's not even healthy for him to play professional football (sarcasm). That's my personal preference tbh. If we want to pick up a free agent veteran CB, I would look to someone cheaper (wages wise).

KOLO TOURE! !

Lucas Digne LB from Lille . .

Downing in part exchange for Begovic

I have been offline for just one day!!! SHOCKING developments

Kolo Toure? The same Kolo Toure who already in 2011 had to eat his wife's weight-loss pills to stay fit and got a 6 month ban for failing a drug test? A big 'no thanks' from me.

Dear Lucifer, that Kolo news is everywhere now

This is not how I wanted to see our summer window start...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22609295

Its on BBC as well