Re: Cesc isn't happy

by gondov Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:48 am

halamadrid2 wrote:@kiranr
Nacho (defender) Promoted
Alex (midfielder)
Juanfran (defender)
Morata (striker) Promoted
Denis (winger)

I would add others but those are just too young to be promoted at this moment of time but in a couple of years

Jese (winger)
Jose Rodriguez (midfielder-CM) watch out for this guy
Lucas (winger)
Nobeljas (LB)

You can bank on these either getting promoted or sold for a huge sum

Oh really? These guys must be so good, thats why only ONE of them has been called for the U21 Spain squad. (Nacho i think, correct me if I'm wrong)

Barca on the other hand;

Montoya
Planas
Batra
Dealofeu
Tello
Serg Roberto

All of them played some part vs Switzerland today I think

by kiranr Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:50 am

halamadrid2 wrote:@harhar i think what he meant is the backbone of that team is Xaviestamissi

Now that Xavi is getting older and Iniesta being as inconsistent as ever, Barca are really struggling to do anythign with Missi's help

I wouldn't call Pedro WC but he gets you the goals which Barca need, I dont agree with his view that Puyol is crap tho, Barca without Puyol have no defence

I refuse to call what they play with a defence because it would disgrace the word

Struggling? I don't think so. If you think Barcelona is struggling, then Madrid must be struggling as well right?

by Clockwork Orange Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:53 am

halamadrid2 wrote:@harhar i think what he meant is the backbone of that team is Xaviestamissi

Now that Xavi is getting older and Iniesta being as inconsistent as ever, Barca are really struggling to do anythign with Missi's help

I wouldn't call Pedro WC but he gets you the goals which Barca need, I dont agree with his view that Puyol is crap tho, Barca without Puyol have no defence

I refuse to call what they play with a defence because it would disgrace the word

My word! When did I ever say Puyol is crap? What are you reading? Do people on this forum just read and interpret thig show they want? I said he was a good defender, but I did not think he was an elite world class defender. Is there anything wrong with that. I don't ususally type these kind of thing s but seriously FML

by halamadrid2 Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:55 am

@ kiranr, which is why the U21/2/3 team is so shite, couldn't even score in the olympics

U19 team was inhabited by Madrid youth players and won it back to back with a Castilla player winning Man of the Tourny and top scorer each Tournament

I would call it Bias

I mean Serio Roberto??? really the same guy who couldn't make a simple pass against our midfield

Batra??? O.o?? any more evidence that this is due to bias, the guy barely plays for your first team and he is promoted iirc unless he gets some playing time for your b-team of course

Denis plays for russia's U21 team and Juanfran is 24, Travesty that Alex didn't make it tho or Morata for that matter but then again our ex cantera in Rodrigo is banging the goals in so they don't really need Morata

Another reason why there is bias towards first teamers, Sarabia plays from start every game eventhough he doesn't sniff the pitch for Getafe, i bet if he played for us he wouldn't even have been called

by harhar11 Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:58 am

halamadrid2 wrote:@ kiranr, which is why the U21/2/3 team is so shite, couldn't even score in the olympics

U19 team was inhabited by Madrid youth players and won it back to back with a Castilla player winning Man of the Tourny and top scorer each Tournament

I would call it Bias

I mean Serio Roberto??? really the same guy who couldn't make a simple pass against our midfield

Batra??? O.o?? any more evidence that this is due to bias, the guy barely plays for your first team and he is promoted iirc unless he gets some playing time for your b-team of course

Denis plays for russia's U21 team and Juanfran is 24, Travesty that Alex didn't make it tho or Morata for that matter but then again our ex cantera in Rodrigo is banging the goals in so they don't really need Morata

Another reason why there is bias towards first teamers, Sarabia plays from start every game eventhough he doesn't sniff the pitch for Getafe, i bet if he played for us he wouldn't even have been called

You mean the reigning U21 EURO champions? Yepp, they sure are struggling without Real Madrids youth..

by halamadrid2 Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:59 am

kiranr wrote:
Struggling? I don't think so. If you think Barcelona is struggling, then Madrid must be struggling as well right?

oh common, cut the denial

You have been struggling since last season and thats when Missi decided to show up when he wanted and xaviesta were being sub-par

I don't think you will ever find a madridista who doesn't think we are struggling atm, but still three games gone 35 or so more to go

we unlike you guys don't pretend our team is only made up of Canteras and the success only being due to them, ok answer me this question, who will succeed Puyol when he retires??

by halamadrid2 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:01 am

harhar11 wrote:You mean the reigning U21 champions? Not to mention the u19 champion as well..

exactly, let me just check before i make an accusation

Thiago was the only one from La Masia there in that squad then, if you count Bojan/Jeffren then 3, also Alex has always been in midfield for u19 donno where Roberto was then

by harhar11 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:02 am

Montoya?

by kiranr Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:04 am

There are other players as well in La Masia Hala.

I am sorry, but your conclusion in this case is wrong. There may not be players of Iniesta's or Xavi's or Messi's calibre, but there are some really good players who could become world class in the future.

And inhabited by Madrid players? I thought there were only 2-3 player in the U-19 team.

by gondov Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:06 am

halamadrid2 wrote:@ kiranr, which is why the U21/2/3 team is so shite, couldn't even score in the olympics

U19 team was inhabited by Madrid youth players and won it back to back with a Castilla player winning Man of the Tourny and top scorer each Tournament

I would call it Bias

I mean Serio Roberto??? really the same guy who couldn't make a simple pass against our midfield

Batra??? O.o?? any more evidence that this is due to bias, the guy barely plays for your first team and he is promoted iirc unless he gets some playing time for your b-team of course

Denis plays for russia's U21 team and Juanfran is 24, Travesty that Alex didn't make it tho or Morata for that matter but then again our ex cantera in Rodrigo is banging the goals in so they don't really need Morata

Another reason why there is bias towards first teamers, Sarabia plays from start every game eventhough he doesn't sniff the pitch for Getafe, i bet if he played for us he wouldn't even have been called

Wasnt there like, only ONE guy from your youth sysetm in that U19 winning squad- Jesse

by harhar11 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:07 am

And actually Jese wasnt named the best player of the tournament, that was Deulofeu...

by halamadrid2 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:07 am

harhar11 wrote:Montoya?

Yepp missed him, knew i had missed somebody, now thats totally different from the other Barca crop enjoying success in Europe

don't think this u21 will win the competition but thats just me though

by kiranr Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:08 am

halamadrid2 wrote:
kiranr wrote:
Struggling? I don't think so. If you think Barcelona is struggling, then Madrid must be struggling as well right?

oh common, cut the denial

You have been struggling since last season and thats when Missi decided to show up when he wanted and xaviesta were being sub-par

I don't think you will ever find a madridista who doesn't think we are struggling atm, but still three games gone 35 or so more to go

we unlike you guys don't pretend our team is only made up of Canteras and the success only being due to them, ok answer me this question, who will succeed Puyol when he retires??

Where do we pretend the team is made of canteras only? But in the past 2-3 years Barcelona have made better use of its youth team players than Madrid has.

Last season was not bad for Barcelona. La Liga was lost mainly due to injuries to key players. The level of play had deteriorated a little in the forward line due to lack of Villa and Pedro, but it should start clicking again.

Defense has been affected by injuries again and it is perplexing how it has not been addressed yet, but Tito will manage somehow i am sure.

P.S. How offtopic is the discussion right now.

by halamadrid2 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:10 am

harhar11 wrote:And actually Jese wasnt named the best player of the tournament, that was Deulofeu..

I remmeber it being given to Jese with all Barca fans moaning

by halamadrid2 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:14 am

kiranr wrote:Where do we pretend the team is made of canteras only? But in the past 2-3 years Barcelona have made better use of its youth team players than Madrid has.

Last season was not bad for Barcelona. La Liga was lost mainly due to injuries to key players. The level of play had deteriorated a little in the forward line due to lack of Villa and Pedro, but it should start clicking again.

Defense has been affected by injuries again and it is perplexing how it has not been addressed yet, but Tito will manage somehow i am sure.

P.S. How offtopic is the discussion right now.

Barca football club are the ones pretending you are made of your youth and most barac fans agree

I agree you have made better use of it, why do you think we moan so much and why Marca has its Madrid youth propaganda

hope you improve but get into that patch when you play us Laughing

Defence should be your first priority both Pique and Masch are not cut for being starters, you need another Puyol and that fast before you start chipping in more goals than you do atm... well you got Alba and convinced Alves to stay thats brill in my books, but CB remains your issue

on the off topic part, i agree Laughing

inbeforered

by harhar11 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:14 am

halamadrid2 wrote:
harhar11 wrote:And actually Jese wasnt named the best player of the tournament, that was Deulofeu..

I remmeber it being given to Jese with all Barca fans moaning

I was one of them, but I was decieved by MARCA (where's the Xavi head? Crying or Very sad

). They made an article directly after the game that the trophy that Jesé recieved directly after the game was the player of the tournament award, but it was actually the top scorer. The player of the tournament awards is always given a few day after, so the jurys can decided who was the best player..

halamadrid2 wrote:

Barca football club are the ones pretending you are made of your youth and most barac fans agree

Find me 1 post, just 1 post of a barca fan saying that our team is just made up of youth players.

by halamadrid2 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:21 am

i am going to have to search all day, i have seen it but it has escaped my mind who it was/were

i dont usually get into barca/madrid tittle tattle, i mostly ignore it so i am not quite sure who to point the finger at, however i have seen it being said

going by Khaleds post history i suspect he is one of them....THINK, but i am not sure don't want to accuse someone falsly, but i have seen it

ohh ok, thanks for clearing that up, when i made my post i went on uefas website to check wheteher it actually was Jese, they haven't put the player of the tourny up there for 2012 hmm

by gondov Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:21 am

halamadrid2 wrote:
kiranr wrote:
Struggling? I don't think so. If you think Barcelona is struggling, then Madrid must be struggling as well right?

oh common, cut the denial

You have been struggling since last season and thats when Missi decided to show up when he wanted and xaviesta were being sub-par

I don't think you will ever find a madridista who doesn't think we are struggling atm, but still three games gone 35 or so more to go

we unlike you guys don't pretend our team is only made up of Canteras and the success only being due to them, ok answer me this question, who will succeed Puyol when he retires??

I love how you madristas just further emphasize how good barca is;

-Lose a league that we have won 3 times in a row
-Reach the semis CL (just like madrid) only to be knocked out by chelsea (in a fashion in which many if they are being honest was very unlucky. Not taking anything away from Chelsea of cause)
- Still manage to knock out madrid in 2 cups; better head to head record
-5 point ahead so far.
-Iniesta (the inconsistent one- as u put it), best player in EU last season.

And we are struggling!!! Hack, our standard must be above everyone else's if this is called struggling. We have to win the treble every year now for us to even be considered.

by halamadrid2 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:28 am

gondov wrote:I love how you madristas just further emphasize how good barca is;

-Lose a league that we have won 3 times in a row
-Reach the semis CL (just like madrid) only to be knocked out by chelsea (in a fashion in which many if they are being honest was very unlucky. Not taking anything away from Chelsea of cause)
- Still manage to knock out madrid in 2 cups; better head to head record
-5 point ahead so far.
-Iniesta (the inconsistent one- as u put it), best player in EU last season.

And we are struggling!!! Hack, our standard must be above everyone else's if this is called struggling. We have to win the treble every year now for us to even be considered.

3 times when your back-bone players were at their peak, and we in a travesty

reaching the semis was great, ill give you that

two cups, super copa was totally undeserved and you like the rest of the Barca fans know it... just shows how relient you are on Missi, he rescued you then and won you the cup with his sublime 3-2 goal

we always decide to better in second legs, could have gone through in the copa had the ramos goal not been dissallowed or if ramos hadnt gotten a wrongful red, but not going to get into that

All in all for a big team you had a dismal season, second half of season more like, you haven't started brightly eventhough you have 100% record

if you think you are good atm then thats your opinion

by harhar11 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:29 am

halamadrid2 wrote:i am going to have to search all day, i have seen it but it has escaped my mind who it was/were

going by Khaleds post history i suspect he is one of them....THINK, but i am not sure don't want to accuse someone falsly, but i have seen it

ohh ok, thanks for clearing that up, when i made my post i went on uefas website to check wheteher it actually was Jese, they haven't put the player of the tourny up there for 2012 hmm

Same here, the closest thing that I found was this on the spanish UEFA homepage the 10 best talent of the Euro U19

This was made after the tournament and only Deulofeu and Alcacér were named in the top 10 player of the tournament from the Spanish team..

halamadrid2 wrote:
gondov wrote:I love how you madristas just further emphasize how good barca is;

-Lose a league that we have won 3 times in a row
-Reach the semis CL (just like madrid) only to be knocked out by chelsea (in a fashion in which many if they are being honest was very unlucky. Not taking anything away from Chelsea of cause)
- Still manage to knock out madrid in 2 cups; better head to head record
-5 point ahead so far.
-Iniesta (the inconsistent one- as u put it), best player in EU last season.

And we are struggling!!! Hack, our standard must be above everyone else's if this is called struggling. We have to win the treble every year now for us to even be considered.

3 times when your back-bone players were at their peak, and we in a travesty

reaching the semis was great, ill give you that

two cups, super copa was totally undeserved and you like the rest of the Barca fans know it... just shows how relient you are on Missi, he rescued you then and won you the cup with his sublime 3-2 goal

we always decide to better in second legs, could have gone through in the copa had the ramos goal not been dissallowed or if ramos hadnt gotten a wrongful red, but not going to get into that

All in all for a big team you had a dismal season, second half of season more like, you haven't started brightly eventhough you have 100% record

if you think you are good atm then thats your opinion

2 Cups? You mean Champions league? in that case, how?

and how did we not deserved a super copa?

by halamadrid2 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:31 am

no copa del rey and the super cup

i meant "the" super copa that we played last summer

by gondov Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:36 am

halamadrid2 wrote:
gondov wrote:I love how you madristas just further emphasize how good barca is;

-Lose a league that we have won 3 times in a row
-Reach the semis CL (just like madrid) only to be knocked out by chelsea (in a fashion in which many if they are being honest was very unlucky. Not taking anything away from Chelsea of cause)
- Still manage to knock out madrid in 2 cups; better head to head record
-5 point ahead so far.
-Iniesta (the inconsistent one- as u put it), best player in EU last season.

And we are struggling!!! Hack, our standard must be above everyone else's if this is called struggling. We have to win the treble every year now for us to even be considered.

3 times when your back-bone players were at their peak, and we in a travesty

reaching the semis was great, ill give you that

two cups, super copa was totally undeserved and you like the rest of the Barca fans know it... just shows how relient you are on Missi, he rescued you then and won you the cup with his sublime 3-2 goal

we always decide to better in second legs, could have gone through in the copa had the ramos goal not been dissallowed or if ramos hadnt gotten a wrongful red, but not going to get into that

All in all for a big team you had a dismal season, second half of season more like, you haven't started brightly eventhough you have 100% record

if you think you are good atm then thats your opinion

You said STRUGGLING.

I would have liked it if we won more trophies last season but, winning Copa, supercup, WCC, reaching CL semis, beaten to laliga by a RECORD BREAKING real side, isnt exactly struggling.

If you think thats struggling, that means you're acknowledging that we are so good that, we have to be judged at a standard that is above any top EU side, including yourselves.

Also the likes of Bayern, Man United struggled last season according to you.

by harhar11 Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:38 am

halamadrid2 wrote:no copa del rey and the super cup

i meant "the" super copa that we played last summer

In the first leg of the copa del rey we were the better team while you were in the 2nd, same thing in the super cup last summer but the other way around. You were better in the first and we were better in the 2nd.

But then, using your logic, you didnt deserve to win copa del rey 2011 because we were the better team, remember how Casillas saved you time and time again in the 2nd half like Valdes did in the first leg of the super copa?

by Dnmac4 Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:21 am

gondov wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:
gondov wrote:I love how you madristas just further emphasize how good barca is;

-Lose a league that we have won 3 times in a row
-Reach the semis CL (just like madrid) only to be knocked out by chelsea (in a fashion in which many if they are being honest was very unlucky. Not taking anything away from Chelsea of cause)
- Still manage to knock out madrid in 2 cups; better head to head record
-5 point ahead so far.
-Iniesta (the inconsistent one- as u put it), best player in EU last season.

And we are struggling!!! Hack, our standard must be above everyone else's if this is called struggling. We have to win the treble every year now for us to even be considered.

3 times when your back-bone players were at their peak, and we in a travesty

reaching the semis was great, ill give you that

two cups, super copa was totally undeserved and you like the rest of the Barca fans know it... just shows how relient you are on Missi, he rescued you then and won you the cup with his sublime 3-2 goal

we always decide to better in second legs, could have gone through in the copa had the ramos goal not been dissallowed or if ramos hadnt gotten a wrongful red, but not going to get into that

All in all for a big team you had a dismal season, second half of season more like, you haven't started brightly eventhough you have 100% record

if you think you are good atm then thats your opinion

You said STRUGGLING.

I would have liked it if we won more trophies last season but, winning Copa, supercup, WCC, reaching CL semis, beaten to laliga by a RECORD BREAKING real side, isnt exactly struggling.

If you think thats struggling, that means you're acknowledging that we are so good that, we have to be judged at a standard that is above any top EU side, including yourselves.

Also the likes of Bayern, Man United struggled last season according to you.

The Club World cup was a very big deal from a global football perspective.

If some people on here forget I will remind them that there was a lot of media, posters on this site and fans in general who thought Santos and Neymar (who was up for player of the year) were going to beat Barca or it was going to be a very close game.

At the least people thought Neymar was in the same class as Messi and he would play well even in a defeat.

Well they were destroyed, and please stop this whole if this goal had counted crap or if that goal wasn't called offsides stuff. That's football and Barca were effected by it last year as well but we don't use it as a crutch.

Head to head we were better then you last year and that was over a lot of games and you won the only tournament you didn't have to go through us to win.

These are facts, not this was deserved or that trophy wasn't deserved and if this goal had counted blah blah blah.

Congrats on the league you deserved it, but don't try to play up what you did and then play down everything we did especially when you were defeated on a head to head basis.

by Swanhends Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am

Cesc should come to Swansea...he can learn to become the system and eventually take over for Leon Britton

by Dnmac4 Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:44 am

Clockwork Orange wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
Clockwork Orange wrote:Is it really that hard to comprehend? I just do not think your youth system is as amazing as people make it out to be. Is tha wrong? As I said I agree fully with the conclusions drawn by a presdient from the Brazilian team ( I can't remember his name, apologies). As I said I agree with billy_gr statement.

I just thought that your reasoning of why it was nothing special was... well... weird. Even Cruyff have said that a youth system is their to produced great players and not win trophies.

And I think that it was Mario Gobbi. But I dont think that his situation would fit your arguement that Barca does not have a special academy while maintaining that Ajax has one. IIRC he said something like this, he said that brazilian shouldnt try to copy barca because his team, Corinthians, defeated Barca in the U17 CWC final.

If you use his situation, then I should be able to say that Ajax now has a youth system that is nothing special simply because Inter defeated your team in the final of the nextgen, no?

That would be fair enough, because we don't. Over the last decade we concentrated more on buying players and our debt rose. Only since Frank de Boer has taken over have we returned to the old ways of developing from the inside.

OK, so with you saying this then Barcelona has the best youth system over the last decade and right now, correct?

IF you want to say there overrated compared to Ajax which is I'm sure the argument you were trying to get into then fine that's an argument to have but to say there overrated, compared to what?

Who's is better currently or over the last decade?

And LOL at you keep saying you rely on Messi, Xavi, and Iniesta. Have you seen our record in games Puyol plays in and when he doesn't and the streak of unbeaten games we had when he started?

And then you act like if a player isn't world class they just don't count and bring up Tello and Cuenca.

I'm pretty sure Pep Guardiola was pretty good, no? Do you think Arsenal was and is happy with Fabregas and Arteta? How about Liverpool with Reina, do you think there happy with him?

Do you think we would have won trophies without Pedro, Pique and Busquets who some will say is world class although I don't agree.

How about Thiago, do know how many big offers we have turned down for him especially after the silverware he won for Spain's underage teams.

I mean I'm leaving a million really good players out. You act if there not world class then who cares. well guess what no team plays with all World Class players and no academy produces all World class players.

Do you know of another team that currently could field two midfields of that came from there youth systems and I'm still leaving out a lot of good players.

1) Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets
2) Fabregas, Arteta, Thiago

So if were the number 1 youth system currently and have been for the last 10 years plus we won a CL title with 8 of our youth team players in the starting 11 how are we overrated.

If were not the #1 youth academy, please tell us who is.

IS that in a more polite manner, do you feel less threatened at your computer half way around the world.

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