Cesc isn't happy
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
ynwa wrote:Cesc - Cazorla - Arteta
Abou Zidane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Zealous- World Class Contributor
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
Abou Zidane?
Red Alert- World Class Contributor
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
Zealous wrote:
No I don't know. I honestly felt they wanted to make him a part of the team, eventually replacing someone. I mean the switch to 3-4-3 to find a place for him was enough to convince me that they thought he was worth the effort. But since he's teh suckz now Tito doesn't even have him in his plans? Did Tito feel the same way about Ceskkk when Guardiola was in charge?
Probably both wanted and 3-4-3 was the way to incorporate Cesc. But with Tito's comments this year before the season about the formation and the lack of the La Liga or CL trophy last season, i think Cesc would have been on the bench irrespective of whether Tito or Pep was incharge. I think both would have reached the 3-4-3 is not the right formation conclusion.
kiranr- First Team
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
4-3-3 works best for Barca imo.
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
Zealous wrote:billy_gr wrote:The differrence between Marcelo/Coentrao and Cesc/Xavi is the age difference. While in the first case they are of similar age and they seem to overlap (and thus 30m were unjustified) in the second case Xavi will lose his starting 11 role by default in coupe of years. SoI can only guess that Barca's management were rushing Cesc's buy in order to avoid contract renewals or other clubs getting him. Which is silly too but it's the only reason I can think of
I'm not crazy about the Coentrao signing but it's hardly relevant to this thread. So let's avoid getting side tracked
i had no intention to go the "you're no better" way. it's just the fact that i've read some comments of madrid fans about 2 top players in the same position developing a healthy competiton and I mentioned that to highlight that maybe Barca admins were thinking the same. Anyway it's silly for me. I'm just trying to understand too
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
billy_gr wrote:Zealous wrote:billy_gr wrote:The differrence between Marcelo/Coentrao and Cesc/Xavi is the age difference. While in the first case they are of similar age and they seem to overlap (and thus 30m were unjustified) in the second case Xavi will lose his starting 11 role by default in coupe of years. SoI can only guess that Barca's management were rushing Cesc's buy in order to avoid contract renewals or other clubs getting him. Which is silly too but it's the only reason I can think of
I'm not crazy about the Coentrao signing but it's hardly relevant to this thread. So let's avoid getting side tracked
i had no intention to go the "you're no better" way. it's just the fact that i've read some comments or madrid fans about 2 top players in the same position developing a healthy competiton and I mentioned that to highlight that maybe Barca admins were thinking the same. Anyway it's silly for me. I'm just trying to understand too
Ah my bad, I misunderstood you. In that sense then yes I agree.
But for the healthy competition thing to work the frustrations of players must be directed at someone or the players will feel resentment for each other. In our case Mou is willing to be the bad guy, I don't think Pep was prepared to do that.
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
yeah it's a longshot. well i'm not in favor of that either. when you decide to spend big you do so to cover primary squad needs. no super subs, no depth signings, no competition tricks or succession plans. at least that's how you have to think when your budget is 40m IMO.
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
Well at Madrid the feeling is that we had to do this to give us the best possible chance for success. It can be a bumpy ride but we're willing to take it of it leads us to the promised land.
Zealous- World Class Contributor
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
What's with all this business of "I've looked through your past history" and then makes a judge of character. Don't believe it for a second. This OC guy is quite clearly a multi.
Anyways, Cesc was always a political signing. Catalans wanted to bring back the exiled son, Barca politicians wanted the votes, even Pep wanted him back for reasons no one really understands (true love, perhaps, is as good a reason as any Barca fans have been able to come up with).
Also, my previous point that this is greatly exaggerated by the media has been correct:
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20120905/fc-barcelona/cesc-fabregas-debate-rendimiento-entrevista-catalunya-radio_54346643804.html
"More is being made out of this than is actually happening. From some sectors of the press they even want to make up that I've been whistled at, they ask what's going on with me, they say I am not well... I am the first one to know that I am good, I'm positive. I train and work just like anybody else, but if you have more or less minutes it depends on the coach, although I am on top condition both mentally and physicall".
Anyways, Cesc was always a political signing. Catalans wanted to bring back the exiled son, Barca politicians wanted the votes, even Pep wanted him back for reasons no one really understands (true love, perhaps, is as good a reason as any Barca fans have been able to come up with).
Also, my previous point that this is greatly exaggerated by the media has been correct:
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20120905/fc-barcelona/cesc-fabregas-debate-rendimiento-entrevista-catalunya-radio_54346643804.html
"More is being made out of this than is actually happening. From some sectors of the press they even want to make up that I've been whistled at, they ask what's going on with me, they say I am not well... I am the first one to know that I am good, I'm positive. I train and work just like anybody else, but if you have more or less minutes it depends on the coach, although I am on top condition both mentally and physicall".
BarrileteCosmico- Admin
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
'Marca' at it again.
urbaNRoots- First of his name
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
BarrileteCosmico wrote:What's with all this business of "I've looked through your past history" and then makes a judge of character. Don't believe it for a second. This OC guy is quite clearly a multi.
Anyways, Cesc was always a political signing. Catalans wanted to bring back the exiled son, Barca politicians wanted the votes, even Pep wanted him back for reasons no one really understands (true love, perhaps, is as good a reason as any Barca fans have been able to come up with).
Also, my previous point that this is greatly exaggerated by the media has been correct:
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20120905/fc-barcelona/cesc-fabregas-debate-rendimiento-entrevista-catalunya-radio_54346643804.html
"More is being made out of this than is actually happening. From some sectors of the press they even want to make up that I've been whistled at, they ask what's going on with me, they say I am not well... I am the first one to know that I am good, I'm positive. I train and work just like anybody else, but if you have more or less minutes it depends on the coach, although I am on top condition both mentally and physicall".
I don't even know what a multi means. I started going through posters history to ascertain whether to bother responding. What propmted this is being insulted by that Messiah character and jibers character. From what I understand Pep wanted him to inherit the #4, which I found very strange. Barcelona shirt numbers loosely follow the same ideals of van Gaal's and I am surprised Busquets never asked for that shirt number as he fits the role of a #4 in the Dutch system perfectly.
billy_gr wrote:It's just a mater of agility and mobility. Cesc isn't used to this kind of game and I don't think that he will ever will be. It is true that very few players are suited for Barca's current game and that makes transfers unpredictable.
So far Ibra has failed, Cesc and Sanchez are failing and so on. These players would dominate in other teams. Anyway, I believe that Barca will compete as long as Xavi and Iniesta are playing.
As for La Masia, I think it's both overrated and underated. Overated in a sence that us barca fans are looking for Xavis and Messis in every generation of players coming out of La Masia, when it's obvious that these players are one of a kind. Underrated by others because of the very same reason. Because the new entries are not Xavis and Messis.
Finally, Puyol is one of theh best defenders in the recent years. Period. No need to debate that.
This was pretty much my point. I do not feel la Masia is anything special. Especially when compared to our own famed youth system that has been churning out great players for over 4 decades. I am not saying your cantera is average, I just think it is not as great as people are making it out to be. As shown by your youth teams not being anything special, and our own youth team dominated yours completely, I feel that my points still stands as valid. I am glad that your youth system is getting famous as it is still linked with our club.
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
Clockwork Orange wrote:BarrileteCosmico wrote:What's with all this business of "I've looked through your past history" and then makes a judge of character. Don't believe it for a second. This OC guy is quite clearly a multi.
Anyways, Cesc was always a political signing. Catalans wanted to bring back the exiled son, Barca politicians wanted the votes, even Pep wanted him back for reasons no one really understands (true love, perhaps, is as good a reason as any Barca fans have been able to come up with).
Also, my previous point that this is greatly exaggerated by the media has been correct:
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20120905/fc-barcelona/cesc-fabregas-debate-rendimiento-entrevista-catalunya-radio_54346643804.html
"More is being made out of this than is actually happening. From some sectors of the press they even want to make up that I've been whistled at, they ask what's going on with me, they say I am not well... I am the first one to know that I am good, I'm positive. I train and work just like anybody else, but if you have more or less minutes it depends on the coach, although I am on top condition both mentally and physicall".
I don't even know what a multi means. I started going through posters history to ascertain whether to bother responding. What propmted this is being insulted by that Messiah character and jibers character. From what I understand Pep wanted him to inherit the #4, which I found very strange. Barcelona shirt numbers loosely follow the same ideals of van Gaal's and I am surprised Busquets never asked for that shirt number as he fits the role of a #4 in the Dutch system perfectly.billy_gr wrote:It's just a mater of agility and mobility. Cesc isn't used to this kind of game and I don't think that he will ever will be. It is true that very few players are suited for Barca's current game and that makes transfers unpredictable.
So far Ibra has failed, Cesc and Sanchez are failing and so on. These players would dominate in other teams. Anyway, I believe that Barca will compete as long as Xavi and Iniesta are playing.
As for La Masia, I think it's both overrated and underated. Overated in a sence that us barca fans are looking for Xavis and Messis in every generation of players coming out of La Masia, when it's obvious that these players are one of a kind. Underrated by others because of the very same reason. Because the new entries are not Xavis and Messis.
Finally, Puyol is one of theh best defenders in the recent years. Period. No need to debate that.
This was pretty much my point. I do not feel la Masia is anything special. Especially when compared to our own famed youth system that has been churning out great players for over 4 decades. I am not saying your cantera is average, I just think it is not as great as people are making it out to be. As shown by your youth teams not being anything special, and our own youth team dominated yours completely, I feel that my points still stands as valid. I am glad that your youth system is getting famous as it is still linked with our club.
So because your youth team dominated ours in 1 game(the 2nd you won by 1 goal) that means that its not great?
How good a youth system isnt measured by how good the youth teams are, infact I think that Cruyff himself said that he prefers that the youth teams loses because that adds to their inspiration for titles when they get promoted, it is measured by how many good player that they produce..
harhar11- First Team
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
Is it really that hard to comprehend? I just do not think your youth system is as amazing as people make it out to be. Is tha wrong? As I said I agree fully with the conclusions drawn by a presdient from the Brazilian team ( I can't remember his name, apologies). As I said I agree with billy_gr statement.
Clockwork Orange- Banned (Permanent)
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
The youth system is as good as it can get. I don't think there is any scope for improvement in the coaching aspect of the system. The rest depends on the quality of the players coming through.
At the end of the day, what matters is that La Masia graduates have strong basics and Barcelona depends on its youth system to find players.
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
kiranr wrote:At the end of the day, what matters is that La Masia graduates have strong basics and Barcelona depends on its youth system to find players.
Who will you be counting on from this La Masia squad???
As far as i have seen them they look like a train wreck trying to kick ball
I think you will start buying players now that you realise those players are no better than any average youth players
Atm we have nearly a whole line-up in Castilla that can just be shifted to the first team and play as good as the starters in some positions, i don't see that kind of player in La Masia sorry
halamadrid2- Ballon d'Or Contender
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
Like who Hala?
kiranr- First Team
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
halamadrid2 wrote:kiranr wrote:At the end of the day, what matters is that La Masia graduates have strong basics and Barcelona depends on its youth system to find players.
Who will you be counting on from this La Masia squad???
As far as i have seen them they look like a train wreck trying to kick ball
I think you will start buying players now that you realise those players are no better than any average youth players
Atm we have nearly a whole line-up in Castilla that can just be shifted to the first team and play as good as the starters in some positions, i don't see that kind of player in La Masia sorry
The biggest myth in football. So I suppose the van Gaal era with all the Ajax players, the Decos, Ronaldinho's etc were all from your yputh system? Please tell me how great cuenca and Tello are. I am bewildered by how people can ovverate these players. Barcelona depends on Xavi, Messi and Ineista, it is that simple.
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
Clockwork Orange wrote:Is it really that hard to comprehend? I just do not think your youth system is as amazing as people make it out to be. Is tha wrong? As I said I agree fully with the conclusions drawn by a presdient from the Brazilian team ( I can't remember his name, apologies). As I said I agree with billy_gr statement.
I just thought that your reasoning of why it was nothing special was... well... weird. Even Cruyff have said that a youth system is their to produced great players and not win trophies.
And I think that it was Mario Gobbi. But I dont think that his situation would fit your arguement that Barca does not have a special academy while still be able say that Ajax has a special one. IIRC he said he said that brazilian shouldnt try to copy barca because his team, Corinthians, defeated Barca in the U17 CWC final.
If you use his situation, then I should be able to say that Ajax now has a youth system that is nothing special simply because Inter defeated your team in the final of the nextgen, no?
Last edited by harhar11 on Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
harhar11- First Team
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
@kiranr
Nacho (defender) Promoted
Alex (midfielder)
Juanfran (defender)
Morata (striker) Promoted
Denis (winger)
I would add others but those are just too young to be promoted at this moment of time but in a couple of years
Jese (winger)
Jose Rodriguez (midfielder-CM) watch out for this guy
Lucas (winger)
Nobeljas (LB)
You can bank on these either getting promoted or sold for a huge sum
Nacho (defender) Promoted
Alex (midfielder)
Juanfran (defender)
Morata (striker) Promoted
Denis (winger)
I would add others but those are just too young to be promoted at this moment of time but in a couple of years
Jese (winger)
Jose Rodriguez (midfielder-CM) watch out for this guy
Lucas (winger)
Nobeljas (LB)
You can bank on these either getting promoted or sold for a huge sum
halamadrid2- Ballon d'Or Contender
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
harhar11 wrote:Clockwork Orange wrote:Is it really that hard to comprehend? I just do not think your youth system is as amazing as people make it out to be. Is tha wrong? As I said I agree fully with the conclusions drawn by a presdient from the Brazilian team ( I can't remember his name, apologies). As I said I agree with billy_gr statement.
I just thought that your reasoning of why it was nothing special was... well... weird. Even Cruyff have said that a youth system is their to produced great players and not win trophies.
And I think that it was Mario Gobbi. But I dont think that his situation would fit your arguement that Barca does not have a special academy while maintaining that Ajax has one. IIRC he said something like this, he said that brazilian shouldnt try to copy barca because his team, Corinthians, defeated Barca in the U17 CWC final.
If you use his situation, then I should be able to say that Ajax now has a youth system that is nothing special simply because Inter defeated your team in the final of the nextgen, no?
That would be fair enough, because we don't. Over the last decade we concentrated more on buying players and our debt rose. Only since Frank de Boer has taken over have we returned to the old ways of developing from the inside.
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
Clockwork Orange wrote:The biggest myth in football. So I suppose the van Gaal era with all the Ajax players, the Decos, Ronaldinho's etc were all from your yputh system? Please tell me how great cuenca and Tello are. I am bewildered by how people can ovverate these players. Barcelona depends on Xavi, Messi and Ineista, it is that simple.
mis-quote??? i think you are quoting the wrong guy
I merely said what you did, but in less of a rant
halamadrid2- Ballon d'Or Contender
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
Since when is depending on three players (some of the best ever) a slight on the youth system?
Have we conveniently decided to forget Pedro, Busquets, Pique, Puyol, Alba? They may not be world class, but they have contributed a lot to the club and NT successes. It shows that these players have strong basics that can be then enhanced to suit the first team.
Having 7 out of 11 La Masia graduates who have won all club trophies and some of them winning NT trophies is no small feat.
And stop naming Cuenca, Tello etc. It is not like every single player from the Ajax system is world class. And La Masia is not as old as Ajax, so there is no point comparing the two systems.
As time passes, i am quite sure La Masia will produce more world class talent than Ajax. It is not because it is better, but because Barcelona are one of the elite clubs and the top young talent in the world will want to come to Barcelona youth system.
Have we conveniently decided to forget Pedro, Busquets, Pique, Puyol, Alba? They may not be world class, but they have contributed a lot to the club and NT successes. It shows that these players have strong basics that can be then enhanced to suit the first team.
Having 7 out of 11 La Masia graduates who have won all club trophies and some of them winning NT trophies is no small feat.
And stop naming Cuenca, Tello etc. It is not like every single player from the Ajax system is world class. And La Masia is not as old as Ajax, so there is no point comparing the two systems.
As time passes, i am quite sure La Masia will produce more world class talent than Ajax. It is not because it is better, but because Barcelona are one of the elite clubs and the top young talent in the world will want to come to Barcelona youth system.
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
Clockwork Orange wrote:harhar11 wrote:Clockwork Orange wrote:Is it really that hard to comprehend? I just do not think your youth system is as amazing as people make it out to be. Is tha wrong? As I said I agree fully with the conclusions drawn by a presdient from the Brazilian team ( I can't remember his name, apologies). As I said I agree with billy_gr statement.
I just thought that your reasoning of why it was nothing special was... well... weird. Even Cruyff have said that a youth system is their to produced great players and not win trophies.
And I think that it was Mario Gobbi. But I dont think that his situation would fit your arguement that Barca does not have a special academy while maintaining that Ajax has one. IIRC he said something like this, he said that brazilian shouldnt try to copy barca because his team, Corinthians, defeated Barca in the U17 CWC final.
If you use his situation, then I should be able to say that Ajax now has a youth system that is nothing special simply because Inter defeated your team in the final of the nextgen, no?
That would be fair enough, because we don't. Over the last decade we concentrated more on buying players and our debt rose. Only since Frank de Boer has taken over have we returned to the old ways of developing from the inside.
Thats good and all, but thats not entirly how it has been in barca in the last couple of seasons. In the last couple of seasons, 8 out of 11 of our regular starter are from La Masia and with that starting 11 we were able to win the CL. Stuff like that doesnt go well with your theory that La Masia is nothing special, no?
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
halamadrid2 wrote:@kiranr
Nacho (defender) Promoted
Alex (midfielder)
Juanfran (defender)
Morata (striker) Promoted
Denis (winger)
I would add others but those are just too young to be promoted at this moment of time but in a couple of years
Jese (winger)
Jose Rodriguez (midfielder-CM) watch out for this guy
Lucas (winger)
Nobeljas (LB)
You can bank on these either getting promoted or sold for a huge sum
Khaled can help out here, but there are really talented players in La Masia right now. You can check out the La Masia thread in the Barcelona section.
You should not judge based on one game. Not to mention the B team has been in segunda forever now. Clearly they are not exactly a train wreck.
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
@harhar i think what he meant is the backbone of that team is Xaviestamissi
Now that Xavi is getting older and Iniesta being as inconsistent as ever, Barca are really struggling to do anythign with Missi's help
I wouldn't call Pedro WC but he gets you the goals which Barca need, I dont agree with his view that Puyol is crap tho, Barca without Puyol have no defence
I refuse to call what they play with a defence because it would disgrace the word
Now that Xavi is getting older and Iniesta being as inconsistent as ever, Barca are really struggling to do anythign with Missi's help
I wouldn't call Pedro WC but he gets you the goals which Barca need, I dont agree with his view that Puyol is crap tho, Barca without Puyol have no defence
I refuse to call what they play with a defence because it would disgrace the word
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Re: Cesc isn't happy
halamadrid2 wrote:@kiranr
Nacho (defender) Promoted
Alex (midfielder)
Juanfran (defender)
Morata (striker) Promoted
Denis (winger)
I would add others but those are just too young to be promoted at this moment of time but in a couple of years
Jese (winger)
Jose Rodriguez (midfielder-CM) watch out for this guy
Lucas (winger)
Nobeljas (LB)
You can bank on these either getting promoted or sold for a huge sum
Oh really? These guys must be so good, thats why only ONE of them has been called for the U21 Spain squad. (Nacho i think, correct me if I'm wrong)
Barca on the other hand;
Montoya
Planas
Batra
Dealofeu
Tello
Serg Roberto
All of them played some part vs Switzerland today I think
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