Re: Is 40m euros for javi martinez the most overpriced transfer ever?

by Le Samourai Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:08 am

Honestly I know Idrifail makes him hard to like but Gustavo is a great player.The thing about it is , to give Schweinstiger freedom up front he actually changed his game somewhat, he's capable going forward and is an impressive passer, but he adapted to playing with schweinstiger.

I don't see why Javi would be any different, though he has slightly more quality.

by lenear1030 Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:15 am

Le Samourai wrote:
lenear1030 wrote:Madrid fans are in no position to ridicule this transfer at all, if the premise is that martinez to bayern for 40m is for depth.

Why?

Coentrao to Madrid for 30m.

by Onyx Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:18 am

Yeh 30m was too much. 20-25 maximum for him would of been enough. Plus they got Garay, who was probably worth 5-7m.

by Le Samourai Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:23 am

lenear1030 wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:
lenear1030 wrote:Madrid fans are in no position to ridicule this transfer at all, if the premise is that martinez to bayern for 40m is for depth.

Why?

You won't find me defending the purchase of these Portugese scrubs.

Ronaldo 100 million
Corentrao 30 million
Pepe 30 million.

Sometimes I feel as though they're just doing it to hurt my feelings.
Coentrao to Madrid for 30m.

by rwo power Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:44 am

Le Samourai wrote:But I'll play ball.So he's complaining about owners injecting capital? No he isn't.
"I have great respect for that club, its name, its tradition. The only thing I dislike is that it is a club that has great athletic success but will not pay their debts by itself. That's a problem," said Hoeness.
"Hoeness continued: "Only Madrid owe more money than all the Bundesliga."
That's great....except to ensure this debt free image he had to setup a bullshit external account to handle the loan on his new stadium.

He's criticizing Florentino's business model when it generates more revenue annually than any other club.

Madrid earns every cent that they spend from.

So what's the excuse here?

You know that his point about Real's debt (and of a couple more Spanish clubs) was actually more about the tax debts they owe? Many Spanish clubs owe the Spanish government many millions of tax money. At that time, it was considered to waive that tax debt completely. As of now they will have to pay it back after all, albeit they have time up to 2020 for it.

by StrugaRock Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:55 am

lenear1030 wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:
lenear1030 wrote:Madrid fans are in no position to ridicule this transfer at all, if the premise is that martinez to bayern for 40m is for depth.

Why?

Coentrao to Madrid for 30m.

Well, at first he wasn't supposed to be a depth signing, he was supposed to either take Marcelo's place or play as a RB. Both failed so now he is a depth signing. Also we gave Benfica 23m Euros, Garay and Rodrigo(taking away his buy back clause) in an exchange of Coentrao and the option for being able to have the first buying option on any Benfica player(well that's what reports are saying).

by StrugaRock Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:59 am

-----Gustavo----------Martinez
----------------Piggy
Robben-----------------------Ribery
---------Mandzukic/Gomez

hmm

by The Sanchez Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:03 am

mtfootball wrote:Yeh 30m was too much. 20-25 maximum for him would of been enough. Plus they got Garay, who was probably worth 5-7m.

Gee, wasn't that well spent money... :coffee:

by The Messiah Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:41 am

I didn't know some people can be this jealous...?

by II Capitano Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:21 am

One of the worst threads ever, no detailed posts as to why he thinks this...

by Kingofeverythingclassy Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:35 am

Le Samourai wrote:
lenear1030 wrote:Madrid fans are in no position to ridicule this transfer at all, if the premise is that martinez to bayern for 40m is for depth.

Why?

"I get angry every week when I go to buy petrol," fumed Hoeness in the Daily Mail. "The oil mafia takes money out of my pocket to invest it in footballers. For me this stinks to high heaven and I include Mr Abramovich in all this. We need to beat clubs like Chelsea on the field of play

He complained when Hoffenheim's owner spent 10 million, it was an injustice to German football somehow.

But when his club is buying, it's ok everything's cool, he can buy Ribery ,Robben, Neuer and Gomez at a higher price than any other German club has paid for any individual transfer in the history of German football and it's ok. Will break the German transfer record for the third time in 4 years.

You can say it's mot the same situation and they're not in debt (solely because they outscored loans for their stadium to some bullshit outside corporation) but at the same time his club has spent more money than every other German club combined and still loses.

He needs to get off his high horse and look in the mirror, he can complain about us and Chelsea all he wants but who is inflating the German market with transfer activity over the last 4 years? Bayern is.

We spend money we earn. We dont borrow & beg & make a 200M loss on a season.

by Kingofeverythingclassy Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:40 am

Le Samourai wrote:Honestly I know Idrifail makes him hard to like but Gustavo is a great player.The thing about it is , to give Schweinstiger freedom up front he actually changed his game somewhat, he's capable going forward and is an impressive passer, but he adapted to playing with schweinstiger.

I don't see why Javi would be any different, though he has slightly more quality.

I am convinced that you never knew anything about Hoffenheim or Gustavo and you are fed by newspaper articles. It is obvious you are 16 odd so I dint blame you.

Gustavo has 0 I mean 0 technical skills. Nobody has to change his game for Schweni. Schweni played with Van Bommel who despite making dirty fouls had some faboulous long passes as well. Gustavo always had 0 attacking quality. It was a well known aspect. Ragnick said he is only a pure destroyer. LVG knew & said that Gustavo has no attacking aspect in his game & must work on it

And Gustavo admitted it that since he played in mid-table clubs at best he is only used to making tackles,fouls and destroying play & that the type of play at Bayern that is required is different & he has to work on it.

Other than that Gustavo is a 3 on 10 when it comes to consistency. He will be Amazing against TOP Teams but rubbish against average teams. If you need to win the BL you need an aggressive attacking DM & 1 who week in & week out plays Great matches. That is where Martinez comes.

by The Messiah Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:25 am

Just

Le Samourai wrote:Honestly I know Idrifail makes him hard to like but Gustavo is a great player.The thing about it is , to give Schweinstiger freedom up front he actually changed his game somewhat, he's capable going forward and is an impressive passer, but he adapted to playing with schweinstiger.

I don't see why Javi would be any different, though he has slightly more quality.

Why would you find it hard to like a player because of Idriswinner...? anyways it's obvious from your age that you still have the tendency of doing something like that. Very Happy

Yes I agree with you, Gustavo is a great players, he has good shoot in his leg, he's extremely fast and can recover quickly, all these help him to become a perfect destroyer since he's also 6:2 and has a strong phyiscal presence and physique, he's good with tackling, stamina is perfect, hard at tackling and can get away easily, as well as good interception but that is about everything.

Unlike King, I don't think he's that bad going forward, but for a club like Bayern Munich he's a bit detriment while we're are attacking and sometimes losses the ball far too much(through Bad passes), he's ok passing the ball to space but find it hard at times passing it to team-mates foot. Martinez might be better than him in this aspect but as far as I'm concern overall as player Martinez and Gustavo are evenly matched.

Another aspect you have to look at is that Gustavo is left footed and Tymo our only other right-footed destructive midfielder is not tall enough to deal with set piece since our Fullbacks and wingers are short and Badstuber is not good with headings and high ball, playing Tymo is a bit detrimental for us, although overall he's also a good player.

Another aspect is that without Boateng and Gustavo in our line-up, our central play is very slow, Schweini, Kroos, Tymo and Badstuber are slow players, most teams will use this against us if we play with lets say. Van Buyten-Badstuber-Schweini-Tymo-Kroos, because we'll have an extremely slow Central that could be open to easy counter attack, as well as slopping recovery.

All in all, we need another Central right-footed fast player, who is good with attacking and defending, as well as being able to help out in defending set piece, as well as offensive set piece and the only player that fits this ball is no other but Martinez.

To make things more clearer, now we can easily line-up like this.

---(Left footed)Gustavo(Fast)--------(Right Footed)Martinez(Fast)--------------
------------------(Both Foot)Schweini(Slow)------------------------------------

-------(Left F)Gustavo(Fast)--------(Both F)Kroos(Slow)--------------

-------(Both F)Schweini(Slow)------(Right F)Martinez(Fast)-----------

As long as we don't pair Kroos and Schweini together, with Gustavo, Schweini, Martinez and Kroos, at any given time we'll have a 1 offensive midfielder who is slow but can contribute to a defend and can attack better, as well as capable of using both legs, then we'll have either A physical fast right/left footed defensive midfielder to support them as well as help out in set piece.

Tymo doesn't fit this ball, he is too slow and playing him next to Schweini or Kroos can be deadly in that they are both slow and can not help out in defending set piece and we'll not have a physical present in midfield. So all in all, Tymo is more like an emergency back-up for us now, alongside DVB.

This way our midfielder is safer, Gustavo and Martinez can help out Dante, Gomez, Mandzukic, Lahm, Alaba, Dante/Badstuber/Boateng in defending set piece. So at a time, we'll have (depending on who starts) Gomez/Mandzukic, Martinez/Gustavo, Dante/Boateng in defending set piece, compare to last season when we had only Gomez, Boateng/DVB(hardly ever plays) and Gustavo for defending set piece and as you can see, this was exploited by physical teams like Napoli and Chelsea last season.

For these countless reasons, I feel Martinez is a 40million bargain for us.

by BiasedMilanFan3 Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:53 am

Way, way, wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much

by The Messiah Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:11 am

I'm sick of all of these envious Madrid/Barcelona fans saying it's overpriced just because they could not afford his buy out clause and also because he didn't publicly say he wanted to join either of them and was not willing to contribute to part of the transfer.(Lets not forget Martinez is contributing 10million to the transfer, so we are only paying 30million) Let's put the pieces to the puzzle and clarify a thing.

As already explained tactically on-field, there are also many reasons Many that allow Bayern to pay that amount for Martinez on/off the pitch.

First and foremost: Martinez was the last piece to the puzzle both for starting line-up as well as depth purposes (Now we'll have besides our starting eleven, many players who can come in and change the game, all in the names of attacking fullback Rafinha, Martinez, Shaqiri/Muller/Kroos, Mandzukic/Gomez/Pizarro or players to defend the lead all in the name of defending Fullback Contento, Gustavo, Boateng/Dante/Badstuber and Tymoshuck)Then again we have young players to put in to develop and for deep rotational purposes, Emre Can, Starke, Weiser and Van Buyten)

Secondly: This is a buy out clause, not his true valuation. Remember, we got Dante for 4.8 mil, since it was his buy out clause and that too was not his true valuation but we benefited from it.

Ronaldo at 80m was initially over priced at the time of purchase(although he turned out to reach expectation) Henderson for 20m is overpriced, Carrol 35million is over-priced, as well as Torres, Ibrahimovic(to Barca) and Coentrao transfer fee. Paying for a buy out clause and not the players current value is not exactly over priced. its a buy out which means if you want to get him at all cost, and we don't wish to sell him then defying his current contract with all means possible through a fixed amount...

Getting a player on contract basis can be over priced because no price is fixed, buying a players contract is fixed, thus it can not be over or under priced..when u get a player whose current value is 10m for 6m, then that is under priced, when u get him for 20m that is over priced. But the buyout clause cannot be over or under priced, it is fixed.

If we had signed Hummels for 4.5 as it was included in his buyback clause in his contract, then what would you say..? would you also make a thread saying Hummels is under price..? how about Dante we got him for about3.3-4.5m because of buy out clause in his contract.

There are many reasons why a player contract can affect the amount the buying club pays, say for example Juventus would not have signed Vidal for 11m if his contract was not expiring next year, Podolski would not have left to Arsenal for cheap if his contract was not running out, neither Oezil/Khedira to Madrid, and also Diego Lopez would not have left Villarreal for Sevilla for cheap if it wasn't for relegation clause.

We paid for Martinez clause not his value.

Lastly: With Sammer, I think Bayern will return to attract big names. The Bayern board are allowing themselves to spend big as a signal, to notify teams that Bayern will start competing in the transfer market, as Barca pulled out due to the price tag. FFP is knocking.

by the xcx Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:02 pm

The Messiah wrote:I'm sick of all of these envious Madrid/Barcelona fans saying it's overpriced just because they could not afford his buy out clause and also because he didn't publicly say he wanted to join either of them and was not willing to contribute to part of the transfer.(Lets not forget Martinez is contributing 10million to the transfer, so we are only paying 30million) Let's put the pieces to the puzzle and clarify a thing.

As already explained tactically on-field, there are also many reasons Many that allow Bayern to pay that amount for Martinez on/off the pitch.

First and foremost: Martinez was the last piece to the puzzle both for starting line-up as well as depth purposes (Now we'll have besides our starting eleven, many players who can come in and change the game, all in the names of attacking fullback Rafinha, Martinez, Shaqiri/Muller/Kroos, Mandzukic/Gomez/Pizarro or players to defend the lead all in the name of defending Fullback Contento, Gustavo, Boateng/Dante/Badstuber and Tymoshuck)Then again we have young players to put in to develop and for deep rotational purposes, Emre Can, Starke, Weiser and Van Buyten)

Secondly: This is a buy out clause, not his true valuation. Remember, we got Dante for 4.8 mil, since it was his buy out clause and that too was not his true valuation but we benefited from it.

Ronaldo at 80m was initially over priced at the time of purchase(although he turned out to reach expectation) Henderson for 20m is overpriced, Carrol 35million is over-priced, as well as Torres, Ibrahimovic(to Barca) and Coentrao transfer fee. Paying for a buy out clause and not the players current value is not exactly over priced. its a buy out which means if you want to get him at all cost, and we don't wish to sell him then defying his current contract with all means possible through a fixed amount...

Getting a player on contract basis can be over priced because no price is fixed, buying a players contract is fixed, thus it can not be over or under priced..when u get a player whose current value is 10m for 6m, then that is under priced, when u get him for 20m that is over priced. But the buyout clause cannot be over or under priced, it is fixed.

If we had signed Hummels for 4.5 as it was included in his buyback clause in his contract, then what would you say..? would you also make a thread saying Hummels is under price..? how about Dante we got him for about3.3-4.5m because of buy out clause in his contract.

There are many reasons why a player contract can affect the amount the buying club pays, say for example Juventus would not have signed Vidal for 11m if his contract was not expiring next year, Podolski would not have left to Arsenal for cheap if his contract was not running out, neither Oezil/Khedira to Madrid, and also Diego Lopez would not have left Villarreal for Sevilla for cheap if it wasn't for relegation clause.

We paid for Martinez clause not his value.

Lastly: With Sammer, I think Bayern will return to attract big names. The Bayern board are allowing themselves to spend big as a signal, to notify teams that Bayern will start competing in the transfer market, as Barca pulled out due to the price tag. FFP is knocking.

Long story short..Overpriced as hell.

by Zealous Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:24 pm

If Martinez ends up being the final piece to Bayern's puzzzle then he would be worth whatever they are willing to pay. I think 40 million is way too much but if he preforms then it will have been worth it.

The point is value for money, that's the difference between feeling good about 96 million for Ronaldo and feeling bad about 30 million for Concentrao.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:27 pm

Money means f*ck all if the players perform....

For example Barca payed 30m for Alves, yet does anyone talk about it?

If Javi performs everyone will forget the tag, the only time money is brought up is if a player doesn't perform.

by Zealous Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:29 pm

Barca paid close to 40 million for Alves if I'm not mistaken. Which only helps your point lol

by Le Samourai Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:30 pm

Martinez will be well worth it but Hoeness is still a bitch :coffee:

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:33 pm

Zealous wrote:Barca paid close to 40 million for Alves if I'm not mistaken. Which only helps your point lol

Fine lol, i thought it was 30m but as you say just further re-inforces the point.

by Swanhends Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:33 pm

The wisdom of Mole :bow:

by Zealous Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:35 pm

Trust my opinion guys, I have first hand experience dealing with money. More often than not expensive things are expensive for a reason.

by Swanhends Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:39 pm

Zealous wrote:More often than not expensive things are expensive for a reason.

Disagree there, thats too much of a blanket statement, it varies from product/service to product/service

by gondov Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:46 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Zealous wrote:Barca paid close to 40 million for Alves if I'm not mistaken. Which only helps your point lol

Fine lol, i thought it was 30m but as you say just further re-inforces the point.

I agree with you both, when you go on to wn ALL SIX trophies no one would care. :coffee:

(And I also think alves was worth evry penny, looking at it now)

If Bayen go on to do somehing of that sot, J.martinez will be hailed as a brilliant signing by many.

by Zealous Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:11 pm

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:
Zealous wrote:More often than not expensive things are expensive for a reason.

Disagree there, thats too much of a blanket statement, it varies from product/service to product/service

Perhaps but overall I do think that line of thought is accurate.

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