Javi Martinez vs Mascherano

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Post by Pedram Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:29 pm

Both can play at the center of defense, who's better hmm
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Post by guest7 Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:51 pm

javi imo

i dont rate masche as high as others, I also think javi is much more complete, he can participate in one touch passing, dribbling, scoring (headers), got it all
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Post by The Franchise Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:52 pm

Javi Martinez is the all around better player.

However, as a centerback, in terms of defensive ability, its Mascherano by quite a bit.

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Post by Pedram Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:01 pm

Javi Martinez has been used a lot at CB this season. he's doing a good job there too, apart from tackling which Mascherano is world class at it, i don't think there's much difference between them in term of defensive abilities.
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Post by Adit Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:33 pm

Masch cant head,if he was to play for a team that will get attacked more he will be exposed on air,i agree he is better on the ground as a CB.
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Post by Albiceleste Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:41 pm

Mascherano by quite a distance, Javi Martinez is still young, good player who's great in the air and has a good passing range, but Maschete is better defensively.

Adit, Mascherano had no problems dealing with 6'5" Ibra.

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Post by Ganso Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:43 pm

Masch easily....

@Albi:We dont even take advantage of his aerial game tbh
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Post by EarlyPrototype Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:48 pm

Mascherano is better defensively. I would take Javi over him though.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:13 pm

Adit wrote:Masch cant head,if he was to play for a team that will get attacked more he will be exposed on air,i agree he is better on the ground as a CB.

Rubbish.

Dealt with Ibra, dealt with Babacar, dealt with Llorente without any trouble.
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Post by Red Alert Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:54 am

Mascherano as a DM for me.
He's wasted as a CB in my eyes. He was a BEAST with us playing alongside Alonso. Sad
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Post by Guest Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:24 am

Javi by quite some margin too


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Post by Adit Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:36 am

The Franchise wrote:
Adit wrote:Masch cant head,if he was to play for a team that will get attacked more he will be exposed on air,i agree he is better on the ground as a CB.

Rubbish.

Dealt with Ibra, dealt with Babacar, dealt with Llorente without any trouble.

How many areial duels he won with them? just because Barca doesnt allow opponent many chance to cross into the box,does that make Mash great at air?

Ibra isnt even a headerer of the ball and Bababcar? are you kidding me? their entire team had 1 shot on target all game are you judging by that?

checked and found he has won double big 0 aerial duels all 2 game against milan. :facepalm: , how about you stop talking rubbish? or watch some matches?

Did Mash won a aerial duel with llorente ? dont talk outa your ass.

just checked and found he won big fat 0 aerial duels all game Laughing

what a joke.

Just because he is very good at defending doesnt mean he is good on air.


Last edited by Adit on Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:10 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Post by Adit Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:45 pm

Aerial duels won in each league's


Mascherano-18/38-------------------47%

Ramos-48/61................................78%

Rami-51/71...................................71%

Kompany-19/27..............................70%

Smalling-20/28................................71%

John terry-47/61..............................77%

Chiellini-64/89..................................71%

Thiago Silva-43/55............................78%


yeah sure mascherano is good in air compared to other CBs :facepalm:

Whos talking rubbish now?

"inbefore how stats are deceiving "
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Post by BarcaKizz Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:04 pm

Crimson wrote:Javi by quite some margin too


Care to elaborate Crim?

Prefer to hear your explanation than others here.

At CB, I'd prefer Mascherano. At DM, Javi. Neither I would say by a fair distance, and both are best in slightly different roles.
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Post by BarcaKizz Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:06 pm

Adit wrote:Aerial duels won in each league's


Mascherano-18/38-------------------47%

Ramos-48/61................................78%

Rami-51/71...................................71%

Kompany-19/27..............................70%

Smalling-20/28................................71%

John terry-47/61..............................77%

Chiellini-64/89..................................71%

Thiago Silva-43/55............................78%


yeah sure mascherano is good in air compared to other CBs :facepalm:

Whos talking rubbish now?

"inbefore how stats are deceiving "

Where'd you get these stats? I'd like to know Pique, Puyol and Busquets' stats too... actually all of the Barca defenders if possible. I agree, we're horrid in the air, I think it may be completely ignored at training or something. Even Busquets misses far too many clearances.
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Post by Adit Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:16 pm

BarcaKizz wrote:

Where'd you get these stats? I'd like to know Pique, Puyol and Busquets' stats too... actually all of the Barca defenders if possible. I agree, we're horrid in the air, I think it may be completely ignored at training or something. Even Busquets misses far too many clearances.

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/65

here.I also gets madrid player stats from sportzy's Madrid forum.He has opta installed within the forum.
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Post by BarcaKizz Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:26 pm

Adit wrote:
BarcaKizz wrote:

Where'd you get these stats? I'd like to know Pique, Puyol and Busquets' stats too... actually all of the Barca defenders if possible. I agree, we're horrid in the air, I think it may be completely ignored at training or something. Even Busquets misses far too many clearances.

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/65

here.I also gets madrid player stats from sportzy's Madrid forum.He has opta installed within the forum.

Wasn't able to find individual stats on aerial duels won... hmm Help?
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Post by Guest Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:31 pm

BarcaKizz wrote:
Adit wrote:
BarcaKizz wrote:

Where'd you get these stats? I'd like to know Pique, Puyol and Busquets' stats too... actually all of the Barca defenders if possible. I agree, we're horrid in the air, I think it may be completely ignored at training or something. Even Busquets misses far too many clearances.

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/65

here.I also gets madrid player stats from sportzy's Madrid forum.He has opta installed within the forum.

Wasn't able to find individual stats on aerial duels won... hmm Help?

AW tab, just hover the mouse over a certain players number and it will come up

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Post by BarcaKizz Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:40 pm

Thought I'd post my findings as it illustrates our deficiency in the air. Its not just Mascherano.

Gerard Pique: 19/33 - 58% (Supposed to be our strength in the air...)
Eric Abidal: 21/30 - 70%
Carles Puyol: 13/25 - 52%
Dani Alves: 16/34 - 47%
Sergio Busquets: 13/21 - 62%

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Post by The Franchise Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:44 pm

Adit wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
Adit wrote:Masch cant head,if he was to play for a team that will get attacked more he will be exposed on air,i agree he is better on the ground as a CB.

Rubbish.

Dealt with Ibra, dealt with Babacar, dealt with Llorente without any trouble.

How many areial duels he won with them? just because Barca doesnt allow opponent many chance to cross into the box,does that make Mash great at air?

Ibra isnt even a headerer of the ball and Bababcar? are you kidding me? their entire team had 1 shot on target all game are you judging by that?

checked and found he has won double big 0 aerial duels all 2 game against milan. :facepalm: , how about you stop talking rubbish? or watch some matches?

Did Mash won a aerial duel with llorente ? dont talk outa your ass.

just checked and found he won big fat 0 aerial duels all game Laughing

what a joke.

Just because he is very good at defending doesnt mean he is good on air.

If you knew anything about football you would know you dont have to win headers to stop aerial threats. You putting pressure on them, makign contact with them and forcing them into difficult positions is more than half the battle won.

Stop looking at stats and start watching the game closely.
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Post by Adit Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:22 pm

That would only make half ,why are you ignoring the other part?

You cant ignore aerial duels won and say Masch is good on air, can you?

He has a terrible record on that compared to other elite CBs,as i said there is nothing in your post suggest masch will not struggle playing CB at another team.Stats can be overlooked in many cases but such a waste difference? cant be ignored.

First it was masch is good on air then to he has half the things needed for air to stats are deceiving and then making up masch owning llorente and ibra on air too.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:29 pm

Im not speaking literally.....

Mascherano doing that kind of work means he doesnt even have to win the aerial balls.

Bilbao 2-2 they had plenty of chances, made plenty of moments, but Masceherano still stopped Llorente.

Why? Because he made it difficult for him to win clean headers. Llorente may of won headers, but Mascherano applied pressure and made it very hard for him to be an aerial threat. And he wasnt.

Bascially all you saying, as always is, the "system" makes Mascherano look good..as always, thats all you lot ever have rather than a functonal arguement looking at the game and watching what is happening out there.

Lazy, pathetic and quite boring.

If you bothered actually reading my post, nowhere did I say Mascherano is good in the air.

You said, he is crap and would get exposed in another team. I disagreed.
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Post by Adit Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:42 pm

The Franchise wrote:Im not speaking literally.....

Mascherano doing that kind of work means he doesnt even have to win the aerial balls.

Bilbao 2-2 they had plenty of chances, made plenty of moments, but Masceherano still stopped Llorente.

Why? Because he made it difficult for him to win clean headers. Llorente may of won headers, but Mascherano applied pressure and made it very hard for him to be an aerial threat. And he wasnt.

Bascially all you saying, as always is, the "system" makes Mascherano look good..as always, thats all you lot every have rather than a functonal arguement looking at the game and watching what is happening out there.

Lazy, pathetic and quite boring.

If you bothered actually reading my post, nowhere did I say Mascherano is good in the air.

You said, he is crap and would get exposed in another team. I disagreed.
He doesnt have to win aerial balls? is that always case? this is what i was talking about.can he get away with not winning aerial balls in all league's and all teams? i dont think so.

Oh no please,masch never owned llorente in the air.I have watched that game too,it was pique who getting bullied by llorente that game.Masch didnt have to deal with a single aerial duel with llorente in that game, again you are making things up.

No system bullshit from me,stop diverting.Teams like Real,Manu etc have to deal with much more aerial threats due to their end to end game,thats not even up for debate.

I said mascherano isnt good on air,which can be backed up , compared to other elite CBs.


lets say,if mach and Ramos were up against llorente on air who will let in more goals?

And its not just about goals.These won headers most of the time wins possession,starts new counters,makes chances,assist etc...physically imposing has its limits.
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Post by Adit Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:50 pm

and you answered yourself in that post.

If you bothered actually reading my post, nowhere did I say Mascherano is good in the air.

so some teams like UTD defends alot deep and relying CBs to prevent crosses,will masch struggle there or not?

would you rather have Smalling or Masch as CB for Manu?
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Post by The Franchise Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:24 pm

You said he was rubbish, now your trying to be more reasonable.


Your still clueless...the balls high to Llorente, Mascherano challanged alot and held his ground very well. Llorente didnt own Pique either, so dont know what your on about.

Yes it is "system" from you, you basically said it when you said "in another team".

You didnt say Mascherano isnt good in the air compared to elite centerback...you said he is rubbish in the air, do you need me to quote it for you?

Why are you even comparing stats of elite centerbacks to Mascherano in a thread comparing him to Javi Martinez? The least you can do is get Martinez stats and even then you have to have the ability to actually look closer than that stats...though you seem obvilous to this fact.

Who cares if Ramos would win more headers...its not about Ramos, and even then, is that the only way for you to deal with aerial threats?

If Mascherano is so bad, then why did Ibra nor Llorente score on him...if its such a weakeness then why didnt it get punished? It cant be because they didnt attack, because their teams scored more than 1 goal and had many chances. So, your making a big deal about Mascherano in the air, but show me all those occassions it went against him.

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