Basically today it was official that CR beats Messi for Balon D'Or

Here is a thing, i disagree with the bundesliga players, how about that?

people in this era of football are prisoners of moments, and knee jerk probably worse than people on this forum. they pick moments such as Messi pulverizing through Leverkusen to decide that he is the best ever, and their opinions wont change. I try to overlook everything the players achieved throughout the season and how they impact the major wins to make my decision, sure messi is the "best player", just doesnt mean that he was the better performer over the course of the season.

jiopsi wrote:Aguero, Silva etc?

Barca beat Madrid 2/3 competitions they faced each other.

Messi was individually so far ahead of competition this season, that only Cronaldo has a chance in Ballon d'Or, but he has to carry Portugal to champion of Euros to have to have that chance.

again, minor trophies, in the big picture, weight a lot less than the real prizes.

you know at times it seems like you dont watch the game and only use whoscored.com to rate players. Something that beautiful chart of yours wont tell you is how much Silva stunk in the second part of the season, or how much Aguero when he was scoring wasnt as influential as the other players around his own team.

And again, scoring 1000 goals and assists is not relevant to me if it's not influencial towards your team winning major trophies. Football is a team game, with stats as those Messi would beat Djokovic for N1. But to me in football, individual greatness can truly be appreciated through collective accomplishments. Messi not showing up late in the last part of the season in both the CL and la liga when we met really speaks against him.

its your opinion but people who vote have different opinions. not only in bundesliga if you make poll in any country they will vote for messi its clear to everyone i think no need for explanation

So dear CR fanboys Messi has clear advantage now. 9 out of 10 people will say messi if you ask them. to change this ronaldo has to win Euro, or he has to start to do what messi does - some magic at his work at dribbling at passing at finishing at first touches at build ups. for now ronaldo has magic at one thing: when he shoots from 30m and if it goes in. other than that he can not make me impressed. but anyway everyone has his own opinion time to sleep now

Mr Nick09 wrote:

jiopsi wrote:Aguero, Silva etc?

Barca beat Madrid 2/3 competitions they faced each other.

Messi was individually so far ahead of competition this season, that only Cronaldo has a chance in Ballon d'Or, but he has to carry Portugal to champion of Euros to have to have that chance.

again, minor trophies, in the big picture, weight a lot less than the real prizes.

Yes La Liga is real, other prizes are fake ones. Don't forget that Messi was better even in La Liga.

you know at times it seems like you dont watch the game and only use whoscored.com to rate players. Something that beautiful chart of yours wont tell you is how much Silva stunk in the second part of the season, or how much Aguero when he was scoring wasnt as influential as the other players around his own team.

I've actually watched every Barca/Madrid game this season. And I can definitely confirm that these stats portray difference in quality very good, atleast when comparing Messi and Cronaldo. They also confirm how much better RMA was a team, and how much Messi carried Barca.

Well, how about i disagree with all those countries? lol. You guys always seem too concerned with what the general opinion is.

I dont want Ronaldo to do the same things Messi does. I dont want that, and he shouldnt even bother. He is what he is, and he should use whatever gifts he was born with to help his teams win silverware, he did it with Real, and he is scoring goals that prove to be key for his team moving through the competition. How about Messi tries to emulate ronaldo and to actually score in big tourneys with his country? how about that?

jiopsi wrote:
Yes La Liga is real, other prizes are fake ones. Don't forget that Messi was better even in La Liga.

yeah, your opinion, not mine. remember messi scared of scoring away from home in the 1st half of the season? You lads always try to make it sound like the little HGH boy is perfect lol.

I've actually watched every Barca/Madrid game this season. And I can definitely confirm that these stats portray difference in quality very good, atleast when comparing Messi and Cronaldo. They also confirm how much better RMA was a team, and how much Messi carried Barca.

i thought i saw an argument here, but no.

Mr Nick09 wrote:How about Messi tries to emulate ronaldo and to actually score in big tourneys with his country? how about that?

What big tourneys lol? He has scored two goals in two full World Cups. One in 7-0 drubbing of North-Korea and 1 penalty that Figo got for him. How about he starts creating goals like Messi does to be compared to him?

yeah, and now he has scored to help his team go through the group stage of the Euros in the group of death, and scored the decider in the quarters...

Messi on the other hand, scored a hattrick vs olympic brazil team in a warm summer afternoon in New Jersey...oh wait.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

jiopsi wrote:
Yes La Liga is real, other prizes are fake ones. Don't forget that Messi was better even in La Liga.

yeah, your opinion, not mine. remember messi scared of scoring away from home in the 1st half of the season? You lads always try to make it sound like the little HGH boy is perfect lol.

Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

Accuracy:

Messi 5.5 shots/ goal
Cronaldo 6.9 shots/ goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 22/50 or 44% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 35/46 or 80% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists:

Messi 20
Cronaldo 12

Creativity:

Messi 56 throughballs, 92 key passes (resulting in a shot)
Cronaldo 19 throughballs, 60 key passes (resulting in a shot)

Build up play:

Messi 176 dribbless
Cronaldo 73 dribbless

Lost posession:

Messi 96 dispossessed + 61 turnovers = 157 times
Cronaldo 79 dispossessed + 86 turnovers = 165 times

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 24
Cronaldo 15

Importance of stats:

Here is La Liga 11-12 without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals, and assists:



http://king-football.com/bb/?p=431

Messi got points for the team in 15 games, 35 overall.
Cronaldo got points for the team in 11 games, 25 overall.

I hate to bring these stats in every thread, but they are so self explanatory, and I need to go sleep.

Mr Nick09 wrote:yeah, and now he has scored to help his team go through the group stage of the Euros in the group of death, and scored the decider in the quarters...

Messi on the other hand, scored a hattrick vs olympic brazil team in a warm summer afternoon in New Jersey...oh wait.

Funny thing, I remember Portugal carrying him through Danes first. Messi has never been carried like that for anybody.

jiopsi wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

jiopsi wrote:
Yes La Liga is real, other prizes are fake ones. Don't forget that Messi was better even in La Liga.

yeah, your opinion, not mine. remember messi scared of scoring away from home in the 1st half of the season? You lads always try to make it sound like the little HGH boy is perfect lol.

Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

....

Aaaand another useless stats post.

You forgot the rest

Accuracy:

Messi 5.5 shots/ goal
Cronaldo 6.9 shots/ goal

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 22/50 or 44% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 35/46 or 80% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

Assists:

Messi 20
Cronaldo 12

Creativity:

Messi 56 throughballs, 92 key passes (resulting in a shot)
Cronaldo 19 throughballs, 60 key passes (resulting in a shot)

Build up play:

Messi 176 dribbless
Cronaldo 73 dribbless

Lost posession:

Messi 96 dispossessed + 61 turnovers = 157 times
Cronaldo 79 dispossessed + 86 turnovers = 165 times

MoM (whoscored.com)

Messi 24
Cronaldo 15

Importance of stats:

Here is La Liga 11-12 without Messi's and Cronaldo's goals, and assists:



http://king-football.com/bb/?p=431

Messi got points for the team in 15 games, 35 overall.
Cronaldo got points for the team in 11 games, 25 overall.

Can you give me a reason how one could consider Cronaldo been better player in La Liga, if he had watched every game for both? Because I really can't.

jiopsi wrote:Funny thing, I remember Portugal carrying him through Danes first. Messi has never been carried like that for anybody.

Aaah, the world cup 2010, we have already forgotten you, and those magical nights of Messi carrying his team through the quarters, brilliant memories.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

jiopsi wrote:Funny thing, I remember Portugal carrying him through Danes first. Messi has never been carried like that for anybody.

Aaah, the world cup 2010, we have already forgotten you, and those magical nights of Messi carrying his team through the quarters, brilliant memories.

Argentina didn't carry Messi through. Am I missing something here?

based on this Inzaghi should have won it before right? , well he did score against Czech and to a arguably stronger Czech . Hell he even dribbled peter Czech

@billionmillion

when someone calls you "son" it means "boy", not "your my son".

@jiopsi

why dont you make a chart of who scored the more influential/important goals between messi and CR. last time u did it it showed messi scores more tap ins, only reason you arent doing it is becouse you know golden boy messi's goals this season where against crap opponents

Mr Nick09 wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

jiopsi wrote:
Yes La Liga is real, other prizes are fake ones. Don't forget that Messi was better even in La Liga.

yeah, your opinion, not mine. remember messi scared of scoring away from home in the 1st half of the season? You lads always try to make it sound like the little HGH boy is perfect lol.

Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

....

Aaaand another useless stats post.

Ronaldo can only be commpared to Messi thanks to his stat so if we stop using useless stat and only compare performance wise, then im sorry but Ronaldo is atleast 2 leagues under Messi.

harhar11 wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

jiopsi wrote:
Yes La Liga is real, other prizes are fake ones. Don't forget that Messi was better even in La Liga.

yeah, your opinion, not mine. remember messi scared of scoring away from home in the 1st half of the season? You lads always try to make it sound like the little HGH boy is perfect lol.

Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

....

Aaaand another useless stats post.

Ronaldo can only be commpared to Messi thanks to his stat so if we stop using useless stat and only compare performance wise, then im sorry but Ronaldo is atleast 2 leagues under Messi.

LOL Ronaldo can only be compared to Messi becouse of TWO more penelty goals?

How clueless can one be.........

Ganso wrote:

harhar11 wrote:

Ganso wrote:

harhar11 wrote:

Ganso wrote:

jiopsi wrote:Scores goal against all mighty Czechs, must be the best player in the world.

not as bad as you hyping messi after a game against an olympic team...in a friendly

Brazils olympic team >>> Czech, heck brazil under 15 >>>> czech

Can you honestly say that apart from cech, that this czech team has player as good as marcelo "the best leftback in the world", neymar " better than Messi - Pelé", hulk, rafael or pato?

im talking about the defense

2 of those player that I mentioned are defenders and one of them is supposed to be the best leftback in the world according to madridistas.

And Portugals defence>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Argentinas defence, seeing as they only lost to 1 goal against Spain in the WC and to Germany at this EURO. And as we know, forwards wins you games but defenders wins you tournament so its not shockingly that Portugal gets further in tournament especially not when Argentina played against Uruguay(the champions) in the QF while Portugal played against the all mighty Czech

Se7en wrote:

harhar11 wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

jiopsi wrote:
Yes La Liga is real, other prizes are fake ones. Don't forget that Messi was better even in La Liga.

yeah, your opinion, not mine. remember messi scared of scoring away from home in the 1st half of the season? You lads always try to make it sound like the little HGH boy is perfect lol.

Messi & Cronaldo La Liga 2011-2012

Goals:

Messi 50 (10 penalty)
Cronaldo 46 (12 penalty)

....

Aaaand another useless stats post.

Ronaldo can only be commpared to Messi thanks to his stat so if we stop using useless stat and only compare performance wise, then im sorry but Ronaldo is atleast 2 leagues under Messi.

LOL Ronaldo can only be compared to Messi becouse of TWO more penelty goals?

How clueless can one be.........

No, he can only be compared to Messi because of that stat that is somewhere in there that said that Ronaldo scored 46 while Messi scored 50...

Individuality of goals:

Messi, 22/50 or 44% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)
Cronaldo, 35/46 or 80% were directly assisted (no involvement in buildup play)

So, your saying if he did something in the build up play, then receives a pass back from a teammate that is not a direct assist? like the second goal in this vid?



can see why you want to give him extra credit for that type of goal, but its obviously impossible to do that without the passing skill and assistance of your teammates. Has to count as an assist

@BarRafaeli
The only thing I can think of when I watch Ronaldo is that hair gel should really be outlawed !

CR GETTING CHICKS FROM LEFT AND RIGHT MOST HANDSOME PLAYER OF ALL TIME AND GREATEST WINGER

The Ballon Dor is an award that is designed to acknowledge a player, who, throughout the calendar year, achieved extraordinary feats on a personal level which ultimately resulted in major successes for that player's team. In other words, this award is the icing on the cake of a player who inspired his team to glory during the year. It is NOT some statistical accolade presented to a player with the highest shots on target per attempted direct assist ratio. It supposed to be symbolic, not numerical.

Had Messi not existed, Ronaldo would have won the past few editions of this award, not because Ronaldo's statistics would have been unparalleled, but because he would have achieved more with his club teams due to the absence of Messi in Barcelona. Messi winning of the 2011 Ballon dor boils down to two games- the one against Real Madrid in the first leg of the semifinals in the CL, and the CL final itself. He won it NOT because he scored 53 goals.

If Ronaldo inspires Portugal to achieve its first international trophy, then it would be a travesty to award this year's Ballon D'or to any other player. Messi scores 21423482394823423 goals. So what? Ronaldo scored 60+ and has consequently ended Real Madrid's three year La Liga drought and Portugal's 100 trophy drought. If Ronaldo wins, it's not because he scored 60+ goals, it's because he scored 60+ goals which resulted in his team's great successes.

If the Ballon Dor deviates from this basis, which I'm beginning to suspect it has, then it has lost all value IMO. Messi's win in 2010 definitely supports my assertion.

Kev wrote:The Ballon Dor is an award that is designed to acknowledge a player, who, throughout the calendar year

If this is the case then Sneijder did'nt deserve it and Messi did.....

Sneijder was meh at best until the CL quarters and was awful from september -december.... he only really performed for about 3 months of that 12 that you speak of.

While Messi can only be argued didnt perform during the WC.

Infact by this logic, Milito deserves it more than Sneijder.....

In anycase i do agree with the fact if CR leads Portugal to the Euros then he deserves it....

Currently its Messi for me because he had a better individual season, the reason Madrid won the title is because of supporting cast to go along with Ronaldo.

Messi had no supporting cast lol, but yes if Portugal wins the Euros Ronaldo deserves it.

CR dont have to win the Euros imo just like Messi being a contender with out winning any major trophies

I actually was of the belief Milito should have more been in the top 3 than Sneijder but I digress. Thankfully, Kev and Mole made 2 very nice input in this otherwise crazy and highly enjoyable thread.

Unfortunately, the new voting process would make most things mute as in the end, whoever is the more hyped one would win it.