Pele is not the best in history [FACTS]

ChollaVille wrote:Pele never faced defenders like Maldini, Puyol or Vidić

Messi never faced a defender trying to break your leg.

Trust me, most of the modern footballers wouldn't be able to take that shit. Most of them would come out with broken legs.

omarish wrote:

ChollaVille wrote:Pele never faced defenders like Maldini, Puyol or Vidić

Messi never faced a defender trying to break your leg.

Trust me, most of the modern footballers wouldn't be able to take that shit. Most of them would come out with broken legs.

Pepe, Carvalho, Marcelo, Ramos, Diarra, Adebayor, Alonso? Thats just on the Madrid team.

Lionel Messi wrote:

omarish wrote:

ChollaVille wrote:Pele never faced defenders like Maldini, Puyol or Vidić

Messi never faced a defender trying to break your leg.

Trust me, most of the modern footballers wouldn't be able to take that shit. Most of them would come out with broken legs.

Pepe, Carvalho, Marcelo, Ramos, Diarra, Adebayor, Alonso? Thats just on the Madrid team.

Stupid argument. First they were fouling not trying to break his legs. The defenders in Peles time were actually trying to break his leg compared to Real Madrid. And Messi dodged them all anyways, he was diving like the rest of the Barcelona squad.

omarish wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

omarish wrote:

ChollaVille wrote:Pele never faced defenders like Maldini, Puyol or Vidić

Messi never faced a defender trying to break your leg.

Trust me, most of the modern footballers wouldn't be able to take that shit. Most of them would come out with broken legs.

Pepe, Carvalho, Marcelo, Ramos, Diarra, Adebayor, Alonso? Thats just on the Madrid team.

Stupid argument. First they were fouling not trying to break his legs. The defenders in Peles time were actually trying to break his leg compared to Real Madrid. And Messi dodged them all anyways, he was diving like the rest of the Barcelona squad.

When did he dive?

0:50



Ramos is such a scumbag.

Messi never played while injured because subs were not allowed, imagine him having to play after being hacked by Corluka, and Corluka not being sent off!!

Also, Pele played against Maldini, and the Italy and Uruguay defense was renowned for their strength, and that is just the 1970.

In the end, the argument is ridiculous, because you are not responding to inflation in football, and just merely stating that so and so did not play against so and so without taking into account all the different factors. I did say that Messi, if he played in 1960 would have to adjust his game to 1960 football. And only then would a valid comparison be made. But since that is impossible, satisfy yourself by putting Messi in Tier one alongside Pele and Maradona
And even then, it would not be fair since Messi is not finished yet. Look at Owen who had so much potential, just to be a sub sub in MU. Wish Messi luck in his future, and give respect to where it is due.

Lionel Messi wrote:

omarish wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

omarish wrote:

ChollaVille wrote:Pele never faced defenders like Maldini, Puyol or Vidić

Messi never faced a defender trying to break your leg.

Trust me, most of the modern footballers wouldn't be able to take that shit. Most of them would come out with broken legs.

Pepe, Carvalho, Marcelo, Ramos, Diarra, Adebayor, Alonso? Thats just on the Madrid team.

Stupid argument. First they were fouling not trying to break his legs. The defenders in Peles time were actually trying to break his leg compared to Real Madrid. And Messi dodged them all anyways, he was diving like the rest of the Barcelona squad.

When did he dive?

0:50



Ramos is such a scumbag.

Ramos is young and he was very upset over the loss.

When you are pointing that out, Messi got very upset in the 1-1 game where he shoot the ball at the fans out of pure frustration. He is actually hurting a watching civil. That's way worse, but you don't see me running around calling Messi a scumbag?

And stop starting arguments with everyone, all I see is you being wrong 60% of the times and looking like a fool.

omarish wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

omarish wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

omarish wrote:

ChollaVille wrote:Pele never faced defenders like Maldini, Puyol or Vidić

Messi never faced a defender trying to break your leg.

Trust me, most of the modern footballers wouldn't be able to take that shit. Most of them would come out with broken legs.

Pepe, Carvalho, Marcelo, Ramos, Diarra, Adebayor, Alonso? Thats just on the Madrid team.

Stupid argument. First they were fouling not trying to break his legs. The defenders in Peles time were actually trying to break his leg compared to Real Madrid. And Messi dodged them all anyways, he was diving like the rest of the Barcelona squad.

When did he dive?

0:50



Ramos is such a scumbag.

Ramos is young and he was very upset over the loss.

When you are pointing that out, Messi got very upset in the 1-1 game where he shoot the ball at the fans out of pure frustration. He is actually hurting a watching civil. That's way worse, but you don't see me running around calling Messi a scumbag?

And stop starting arguments with everyone, all I see is you being wrong 60% of the times and looking like a fool.

You think hitting someone with a ball can compare to kicking someone full strength while they're sprinting? Then after that while his compatriots and national team team mates are sympathizing him he punches/pushes 4 of them? get real.

Lionel Messi wrote:

omarish wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

omarish wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

omarish wrote:

ChollaVille wrote:Pele never faced defenders like Maldini, Puyol or Vidić

Messi never faced a defender trying to break your leg.

Trust me, most of the modern footballers wouldn't be able to take that shit. Most of them would come out with broken legs.

Pepe, Carvalho, Marcelo, Ramos, Diarra, Adebayor, Alonso? Thats just on the Madrid team.

Stupid argument. First they were fouling not trying to break his legs. The defenders in Peles time were actually trying to break his leg compared to Real Madrid. And Messi dodged them all anyways, he was diving like the rest of the Barcelona squad.

When did he dive?

0:50



Ramos is such a scumbag.

Ramos is young and he was very upset over the loss.

When you are pointing that out, Messi got very upset in the 1-1 game where he shoot the ball at the fans out of pure frustration. He is actually hurting a watching civil. That's way worse, but you don't see me running around calling Messi a scumbag?

And stop starting arguments with everyone, all I see is you being wrong 60% of the times and looking like a fool.

You think hitting someone with a ball can compare to kicking someone full strength while they're sprinting? Then after that while his compatriots and national team team mates are sympathizing him he punches/pushes 4 of them? get real.

LOL synpathizing? Watch the video again. They are clearly engaging in the fight. Ramos is just responding and it's not my fault that dwarves are so easy to beat.

There was no fight, just Barcelona players trying to hold off that brute Ramos before he actually did some serious harm. I just wish pique wasn't being held back.

Never got an answer though, when did Messi dive?

inb4 Carvalho elbowing Messi's face

So this has turned into another 'Messi is a God, we all should be lucky to be alive when he is' thread.

Some people are so hard headed, why do others get into this 'debate' when they already know what response they are going to get?

izzy26 wrote:So this has turned into another 'Messi is a God, we all should be lucky to be alive when he is' thread.

Some people are so hard headed, why do others get into this 'debate' when they already know what response they are going to get?

Do you even read the thread before you post?

It started with "Messi never faced a defender trying to break your leg."

Lionel Messi wrote:

izzy26 wrote:So this has turned into another 'Messi is a God, we all should be lucky to be alive when he is' thread.

Some people are so hard headed, why do others get into this 'debate' when they already know what response they are going to get?

Do you even read the thread before you post?

It started with "Messi never faced a defender trying to break your leg."

Don't even think about it.

This thread was highlighting Pele and how Cholla did not believe he was the best player ever, which is his opinion which he is entitiled to.
People then decided to put the players in 'tiers' to establish the greats who have played the game.
Others then came in to defend Pele about how great a player he was and talked about the challenges he faced from defenders. Messi was used as an EXAMPLE because he is todays great and people questioned whether he would be able to cope with the challenges Pele faced.

No one doubted Messi, they just questioned whether he could cope as well. It is completly subjective but as usual, YOU see Messi's name not being creamed around with praise and turn this into a thread about how great he is.

Stop riding Messi's dick. It's getting boring.

This is not about Messi. No one cares about Messi in this thread. It is about past greats and who people believe were crimnally underrated.

izzy26 wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:

izzy26 wrote:So this has turned into another 'Messi is a God, we all should be lucky to be alive when he is' thread.

Some people are so hard headed, why do others get into this 'debate' when they already know what response they are going to get?

Do you even read the thread before you post?

It started with "Messi never faced a defender trying to break your leg."

Don't even think about it.

This thread was highlighting Pele and how Cholla did not believe he was the best player ever, which is his opinion which he is entitiled to.
People then decided to put the players in 'tiers' to establish the greats who have played the game.
Others then came in to defend Pele about how great a player he was and talked about the challenges he faced from defenders. Messi was used as an EXAMPLE because he is todays great and people questioned whether he would be able to cope with the challenges Pele faced.

No one doubted Messi, they just questioned whether he could cope as well. It is completly subjective but as usual, YOU see Messi's name not being creamed around with praise and turn this into a thread about how great he is.

Stop riding Messi's dick. It's getting boring.

This is not about Messi. No one cares about Messi in this thread. It is about past greats and who people believe were crimnally underrated.

more?


The topic was about the greatest players to play the game, it was said that Messi had never played anyone who tried to break his legs, I brought up examples of players who have. Tell me how that fits your criteria of me turning this thread around?

Chloe is entitled to his opinion, and so I s Lionel. But using arguments such as did do and so face so and so is not mature.

I think I summed everything up in my last post, but the debate is always being derailed. I only used Messi as an example of how ludicrous it is to time compare two players. The only valid comparison between two footballers is when:

1-The players are exactly similar.
2-Play in the same era.
3-Play in the same level.
4-Are surrounded by players who play in the same level.

and even then, proper objective comparison is difficult.

Which is why the fairest thing is to divide players in Tiers.

Now, if anyone objects. There are a hundred thousand virtual walls in which to bang your head in.

I apologize if anyone felt insulted by any of my posts, I only meant to highlight basic facts about Pele and the inflation of football. Based on my viewings, readings, and professional analysis (from actual professionals).

Lord Spencer wrote:Chloe is entitled to his opinion, and so I s Lionel. But using arguments such as did do and so face so and so is not mature.

I think I summed everything up in my last post, but the debate is always being derailed. I only used Messi as an example of how ludicrous it is to time compare two players. The only valid comparison between two footballers is when:

1-The players are exactly similar.
2-Play in the same era.
3-Play in the same level.
4-Are surrounded by players who play in the same level.

and even then, proper objective comparison is difficult.

Which is why the fairest thing is to divide players in Tiers.

Now, if anyone objects. There are a hundred thousand virtual walls in which to bang your head in.

I apologize if anyone felt insulted by any of my posts, I only meant to highlight basic facts about Pele and the inflation of football. Based on my viewings, readings, and professional analysis (from actual professionals).

You've posted nothing but sensible things, and its true, you can't really compare the players because football now isn't what it was back then

Lionel Messi wrote: more?


The topic was about the greatest players to play the game, it was said that Messi had never played anyone who tried to break his legs, I brought up examples of players who have. Tell me how that fits your criteria of me turning this thread around?

It was an EXAMPLE. Just like Garrincha was, Eusebio, Cryuff, Maradona, Van Basten I could go on but why.

How do you not get that? It is an opinion, not fact. Get over it.

But the most important point is that you are a Mind-reader. You were able to know all of those Madrid players intentions huh?
Give us some more insight into those mind reading skills,oh wise one.

izzy26 wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote: more?


The topic was about the greatest players to play the game, it was said that Messi had never played anyone who tried to break his legs, I brought up examples of players who have. Tell me how that fits your criteria of me turning this thread around?

It was an EXAMPLE. Just like Garrincha was, Eusebio, Cryuff, Maradona, Van Basten I could go on but why.

How do you not get that? It is an opinion, not fact. Get over it.

But the most important point is that you are a Mind-reader. You were able to know all of those Madrid players intentions huh?
Give us some more insight into those mind reading skills,oh wise one.

Example? What are you talking about? Someone clearly said 'Messi has never had a player try to break his legs' how is that an example at all?

Why don't you say that to the people that said there were defenders trying to break Pele's legs?

ChollaVille wrote:Pele never faced defenders like Maldini, Puyol or Vidić

Pele faced defenders whose main objective was to break his legs as yellow cards and red cards did not exist at his time. Check your facts before you post them. In 1962 he was a beast in the first 2 games before his leg was broken. In 166 the same happened, he left the pitch in tears in a stretcher and in 1970 with the introduction of yellow cards and red cards, guess what? He was the best player.

Lionel Messi wrote:
Example? What are you talking about? Someone clearly said 'Messi has never had a player try to break his legs' how is that an example at all?

Why don't you say that to the people that said there were defenders trying to break Pele's legs?

OMG!!!!!!!

Do you know why they used Messi?

Don't worry, i'll tell you. It is because many consider him to be the great of his generation, like Pele was so of course you are going to get these comparisons.

I'll say it again. Messi is being used as an example because many consider him to be the best of his generation,like Pele.

That's what people do when they are trying to compare the best players. They usually compare............... ummmm , what's that word?

Oh yeah, THE BEST.

Even if he was or wasn't being used as an example, it doesn't make the statement correct...

Lionel Messi wrote:Even if he was or wasn't being used as an example, it doesn't make the statement correct...

It was opinion though.

Like many of your points. I didn't read anybody say it was fact. Did you?

izzy26 wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:Even if he was or wasn't being used as an example, it doesn't make the statement correct...

It was opinion though.

Like many of your points. I didn't read anybody say it was fact. Did you?

Saying 'nobody tried to break Messi's legs before' isn't opinion it would be a fact. Opinion would be 'tackles on Messi are not as hard as the ones on Pele back when he played.'

@Lionel Messi:
I don't think anyone INTENDED to break Pele's leg, it is just that the physical nature of the game then, and the lack of punishment made leg braking challenges against major threats the norm. Another thing is the lack of subbing rules, which means the injured players are either stretched out w/o being replaced, or continue to play with injury which potential causes more injury, which is what Pele did in 1966.

Unlike now where players are protected by the rules (which is a good thing), even back in the 1970s, the rules were not implemented enough. Which is how diving evolved as a means to cope. Which in turn gave rise to the stereotype that Latin Americans Dive (apparently breaking thy leg is okay, but diving from thy flying knee is not).

Lionel Messi wrote:
Saying 'nobody tried to break Messi's legs before' isn't opinion it would be a fact. Opinion would be 'tackles on Messi are not as hard as the ones on Pele back when he played.'

It was a comparison from a poster who made the judgement based on his opinion.

That's not a fact, it's an opinion.

Personally I don't regard Pele as being any better than any top class striker in history.

As some other posters have pointed out: At large times in his career he wasn't even the best Brazilian never mind the best player in the world.

Is it WC wins that puts him above the likes of Pukas, Di Steffano, Romario, Ronaldo, Van Basten etc.

izzy26 wrote:

Lionel Messi wrote:
Saying 'nobody tried to break Messi's legs before' isn't opinion it would be a fact. Opinion would be 'tackles on Messi are not as hard as the ones on Pele back when he played.'

It was a comparison from a poster who made the judgement based on his opinion.

That's not a fact, it's an opinion.

Comparing what and what?