The Illusionist : Don Andrés Iniesta

Just because he's not putting up the numbers doesn't mean he's useless.

He's been worse this season? Yes. He has been misused this season? Yes. Has even some of his ability like his dribbling and passing been off? I think so.

He's still a great contributor every game though. Starting to become rated underneath where he should just like earlier in his career due to a dire lack of stats. I can see where people come from but I don't think his contribution should be underestimated. Look at what happens when we play Rafinha in the midfield, or last season with Cesc, or when we have Busquets at CM...none of them can keep the midfield going like Iniesta. That says a little bit about Rakitic too though, he's been good.

Either Enrique sells him or Enrique is sacked. Imagine Zidane constantly running back to goal. Iniesta is a media punte not a false fullback! I fear that Enrique might win the treble then there is no way he will be sacked. Players like Samper have no place in the team under Enriques philosophy.

we cannot keep blaming his decline on change of tactics.

he isn't pulling off passes, or dribbles which were his two strong points, we can't exactly blame that on him having to track back.

Donuts wrote:we cannot keep blaming his decline on change of tactics.

he isn't pulling off passes, or dribbles which were his two strong points, we can't exactly blame that on him having to track back.

Agreed.

plz tell me what his contribution is exactly in last few games.

Change of Lucho's status wont change Iniesta's, as i said he is done. I have watched almost all the games of him and always talked about him. Because i criticise him, i try to closely follow him in every game. i guess many of you blaming the tactics just to stand by the side of once supposedly great player. What Iniesta has been doing this season with more than sufficient rest, is nothing above average.

Why would he pull of dribbles and passes when he isnt in the same area of the pitch?

If he dribbles in the position he does now, and loses it...its alot more dangerous than the previous years. Between the lines vs 20m further back and closer to the sides.

And obviously he isnt in the same position on the field, so how would he make the same passes?

That doesnt mean some decline in his game hasnt occurred, but I think your showing a lack of understanding if you think his position on the pitch isnt affecting the decisions he is making.

You must have played football to know that you cant play the same passes or take the same decisions to dribble if your in areas where its more dangerous to lose it.

He hasn't scored or assisted 13 months in league now, that's shocking as his defensive statistics (only interceptions) have also gone down slightly.

Defensive stats mean less than nothing IMO. He's being misused, but even having said that his defensive contributions are being very much underrated. Whenever Xavi or Rafinha play instead of him you are constantly exposed down the left side. His position is intelligent, tackles are good, and work rate is very good. Credit to him, he's bring misused but still doing a valuable job for the team.

The Franchise wrote:Why would he pull of dribbles and passes when he isnt in the same area of the pitch?

If he dribbles in the position he does now, and loses it...its alot more dangerous than the previous years. Between the lines vs 20m further back and closer to the sides.

And obviously he isnt in the same position on the field, so how would he make the same passes?

That doesnt mean some decline in his game hasnt occurred, but I think your showing a lack of understanding if you think his position on the pitch isnt affecting the decisions he is making.

You must have played football to know that you cant play the same passes or take the same decisions to dribble if your in areas where its more dangerous to lose it.

theres many times when he is on the edge of the box, more centerally and he still doesn't look like himself..
i'm not expecting him to dribble before the halfway line or do some extreme xavi like through ball but something would be nice which we haven't gotten in the longest time.

he's had maybe one or two games where he was above average this season.
to his standards of course.

Donuts wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Why would he pull of dribbles and passes when he isnt in the same area of the pitch?

If he dribbles in the position he does now, and loses it...its alot more dangerous than the previous years. Between the lines vs 20m further back and closer to the sides.

And obviously he isnt in the same position on the field, so how would he make the same passes?

That doesnt mean some decline in his game hasnt occurred, but I think your showing a lack of understanding if you think his position on the pitch isnt affecting the decisions he is making.

You must have played football to know that you cant play the same passes or take the same decisions to dribble if your in areas where its more dangerous to lose it.

theres many times when he is on the edge of the box, more centerally and he still doesn't look like himself..
i'm not expecting him to dribble before the halfway line or do some extreme xavi like through ball but something would be nice which we haven't gotten in the longest time.

he's had maybe one or two games where he was above average this season.
to his standards of course.

What's your point ? Is he having a bad season ? Yes. Could he back at his best next season ? surely yes but it also depends of his role.

your answer is one page before..

Donuts wrote:we cannot keep blaming his decline on change of tactics.

he isn't pulling off passes, or dribbles which were his two strong points, we can't exactly blame that on him having to track back.

Donuts wrote:your answer is one page before..

Donuts wrote:we cannot keep blaming his decline on change of tactics.

he isn't pulling off passes, or dribbles which were his two strong points, we can't exactly blame that on him having to track back.

One bad season doens't mean '' a decline '' .

his last season wasn't exactly that great either though..
but atleast last year he did show up in most big games.

Harmonica wrote:He hasn't scored or assisted 13 months in league now, that's shocking as his defensive statistics (only interceptions) have also gone down slightly.

Wow, that is really shocking.

his scoring never mattered for us...but not assisting for such a long time can be associated with tactics. none of those i count as a prove of decline. i feel he declined because he is often dispossesed too easily. misplaces passes too often. cant continue one to one passes more than a cycle. this season i probably saw those in only one or two game and i mentioned in the match thread.

Pulling a lot of goals and assists has never been part of his game, but surely, you would expect more than none in 13 months and that is really a prove of his decline IMO.

free_cat wrote:Pulling a lot of goals and assists has never been part of his game, but surely, you would expect more than none in 13 months and that is really a prove of his decline IMO.

Even in his best seasons he had less than 10 or 15 goals and assists combined.And now that he has basically been reduced to freaking Jordi Alba's water carrier,that number has gone down even further.
I dont think he has declined.He is just being utilized wrong. But even in this role,he has performed well.I think he has defended that left flank brilliantly and helped cover for Alba a lot.

yeah...bring some absurd stats out of nothing to stand by your declined star
don know what was his best season but in 2012/13 Iniesta had 16 assists only in la liga.....some stat master can shed some light...

One thing for sure its he is getting disposed far too easily . In Enrique system he needs to run like hell . Earlier he used to spin and sheild the ball . Mids are putting hard tackles and recovering balls so easily .The game has changed .Messi also is loosing the ball far too often .

sree999 wrote:One thing for sure its he is getting disposed far too easily . In Enrique system he needs to run like hell . Earlier he used to spin and sheild the ball . Mids are putting hard tackles and recovering balls so easily .The game has changed .Messi also is loosing the ball far too often .

How dare you,you blasphemer?Dont you know that Messi doesnt get dispossessed?Messi doesnt lose the ball,doesnt miss passes,doesnt miss chances.
Behave now.

What is this total rubbish. Assists? Go away man lol

Such a rubbish stat with no meaning.

Give me 25m pass splitting an entire teams line than a sideways cross under no pressure for someone to tap in, all day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD95roRtKDI

First damn thing you see in the video is Iniesta creating something...when surprise surprise he is in a position to do so.

Carry on though, no assist after all

creates something, must mean he is back to normal and nothing is wrong, if only we could use that logic with every other player like on cesc last season

you had to refer to a game that happened a month ago as-well.

Do you have trouble reading?

When did I say there is nothing wrong with him? I CLEARLY said he has some decline.

However, your pretending to be a simpleton and refuse to accept the possibility that its not just him.

You made a sweeping, blanket statement saying "even close to the box he doesnt do anything" (im paraphrasing because I cant be bothered to quote you directly) which is clearly false.

And I didnt need to go back a month, I didnt think very hard about this subject because its so obvious to me, that was very easy to find. It was against Madrid, its easy to remember such a game.

The Franchise wrote:Why would he pull of dribbles and passes when he isnt in the same area of the pitch?

If he dribbles in the position he does now, and loses it...its alot more dangerous than the previous years. Between the lines vs 20m further back and closer to the sides.

And obviously he isnt in the same position on the field, so how would he make the same passes?

That doesnt mean some decline in his game hasnt occurred, but I think your showing a lack of understanding if you think his position on the pitch isnt affecting the decisions he is making.

You must have played football to know that you cant play the same passes or take the same decisions to dribble if your in areas where its more dangerous to lose it.

you responded to my post, saying this doesn't show decline.
either you agree or disagree with me.. or your whole post was just to say how we're wrong with our points but agree with us, which would be pretty pointless.

and no you haven't "clearly" said he declined.. or atleast not in the past two pages.

also if i misread sorry but english is my fourth language.

I just edited my post, you can read what I added.

I dont understand the controversy. You can read what I said..."it doesnt mean he hasnt suffered some decline"

What does that mean to you? I am saying perhaps he has.

Im sorry if im not willing to make bold statements like you..who insist he must have declined and we cant blame the system.

The Franchise wrote:What is this total rubbish. Assists? Go away man lol

Such a rubbish stat with no meaning.

Give me 25m pass splitting an entire teams line than a sideways cross under no pressure for someone to tap in, all day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD95roRtKDI

First damn thing you see in the video is Iniesta creating something...when surprise surprise he is in a position to do so.

Carry on though, no assist after all

Assists can be a rubbish stat and are not a fair comparison for the quality across players, but for the same player, at the same club, playing the same position, I think it gives you an appreciation for how involved he is in goal-making plays. You could use key passes or pre-assists, but I'm sure they would both confirm what is plain for everyone to see: Iniesta, this season, has not had much of an impact the build up game.

Whether this is mostly because of a tactical change or because of a decline, either physical or motivational, remains to be seen. It is probably a bit of both, and if Enrique leaves we will see whether Iniesta can do it in a new role. He wasn't setting the world on fire either in Martino's 2nd half.

These facts are fairly uncontroversial.