The Illusionist : Don Andrés Iniesta

You are welcome jd. You should post more often. Always a pleasure reading your posts.
I really dont rate CR that highly. He doesnt have the peak performance, doesnt have the big match performance and doesnt have the elite technical ability.
Also he is quite a selfish player and he doesnt make his team play better. IMO, Xavi and Iniesta are comfortably superior players. If I am making all time eleven's, CR wouldn t even make my 3rd team. Xavi and Iniesta would make my first.

Garrincha is a strange one. I dont think he is a top 10 player. I watch him and I am not overly impressed. Yes, he was a great player but not top 10 imo.

Thanks alex. I agree on Cristiano but by now I have to admit that almost the whole of the football world has annointed him as an unquestionable all time great. Only a few like you, me and dani are still not completely convinced mostly for the reasons that you mentioned. 95% of football discussions are about Messi and Cristiano. Names even as special as Xavi and Iniesta are mentioned 5% of the times at most. It's this obsession with goal scoring. The other day I read a comment that one shouldn't pay a high amount for Pogba because he will not score that many goals. I thought to myself that this means high amounts shouldn't have been paid for Xavi, Iniesta, Maldini, Buffon, etc. even when they were very young. Naturally I made a sharp retort to this comment but we have to accept a sizable percentage of football fans think this way and a few "pundits" as well.

I think the problem with Garrincha is he was something of a show boater and coaches had to work extra hard to control him for the benefit of the team. I suppose George Best wasn't too different. Can we really say Best was better than Garrincha? I completely understand if the likes of Cruyff and Beckenbauer are rated higher though. Having said that it is also likely that Garrincha delivered the second greatest ever performance at a world cup after Maradona 1986. You could claim Cruyff 1974 was equal or even better but winning or not makes a huge difference whether we like it or not.

I rate Best higher than Garrincha. Best was a player like Messi. The slalom dribble kind of player who would ride challenge after challenge.
Best had top 5 all time talent. No doubt in my mind. Dont get the same impression with Garrincha. I think he is overrated.

alexjanosik wrote:I rate Best higher than Garrincha. Best was a player like Messi. The slalom dribble kind of player who would ride challenge after challenge.
Best had top 5 all time talent. No doubt in my mind. Dont get the same impression with Garrincha. I think he is overrated.

I am surprised by that because my impression was that Garrincha is considered second only to Maradona on dribbling. That said as always I value your opinion immensely.

Related to a comment I made recently in this thread, I decided to do a survey.

Long time Barcelona fans at this forum would recall how often we have been told that our players aren't that good or that complete and need each other or the system to play that well. So many names have been thrown at us from time to time with claims that they are better than our players.

Well now the general section at this very forum is saying loud and clear that three of the top five (or even top four) players of the last ten years are our original holy trinity - Messi, Xavi and Iniesta.

http://www.goallegacy.net/t39670-who-are-the-top-five-players-of-the-last-ten-years

That's casual inflation. Xavi and Iniesta aren't top 5 players. Only time where they were on top when they had Messi in Barcelona, and tactic and familiarity edge in NT. And even then it has been more about titles than actual performances. Messi has single handely carried Argentina the same as Xaviniestavilla did collectively with Spain. Swap Higuain with Spanish shirt and the results would be opposite and nobody would rate them Top 5.

From the archives :-

This business of trying to buy players (mostly young and promising) by even paying their full release clause made me wish to delve into the past and find out whether it was the same then.

I found something that I didn't know about but some may be aware of.

With the departure of Ludovic Giuly over the summer break, Iniesta was able to switch his number 24 shirt for his preferred number 8. On 19 July 2007, the Spanish newspaper Marca linked Iniesta with a move to rivals Real Madrid, who were willing to pay his €60 million release clause. Iniesta responded the same day to deny the rumours, saying, "I've been told about that and I'm very surprised. I can't do anything about it but I'd like to insist once again that I want to stay here. When I say I want to retire in Barça, I say it with all my heart. And my wishes are above everything else." On 25 January 2008, Iniesta extended his contract to 2014, with his buy-out clause being raised to €150 million.

http://archivo.marca.com/edicion/marca/futbol/1a_division/real_madrid/es/desarrollo/1018215.html

Thankfully when Iniesta was a youthful promise he steered clear of vultures like Mino Raiola.

Harmonica wrote:That's casual inflation. Xavi and Iniesta aren't top 5 players. Only time where they were on top when they had Messi in Barcelona, and tactic and familiarity edge in NT. And even then it has been more about titles than actual performances. Messi has single handely carried Argentina the same as Xaviniestavilla did collectively with Spain. Swap Higuain with Spanish shirt and the results would be opposite and nobody would rate them Top 5.

Wow. You really aren't a barca fan.

FennecFox7 wrote:

Harmonica wrote:That's casual inflation. Xavi and Iniesta aren't top 5 players. Only time where they were on top when they had Messi in Barcelona, and tactic and familiarity edge in NT. And even then it has been more about titles than actual performances. Messi has single handely carried Argentina the same as Xaviniestavilla did collectively with Spain. Swap Higuain with Spanish shirt and the results would be opposite and nobody would rate them Top 5.

Wow. You really aren't a barca fan.

I think he is an embarrassment for every other Barca fan on this forum. It's possible that the worst poster at the entire Goallegacy forums currently belongs to the Barcelona section and that is so lamentable. He's been on my ignore list for quite some time and the only reason I had to read this inane post of his is because you quoted it. I do not have the slightest interest in his opinion on anything. In fact he is one of those whose very existence I prefer being oblivious about.

FennecFox7 wrote:

Harmonica wrote:That's casual inflation. Xavi and Iniesta aren't top 5 players. Only time where they were on top when they had Messi in Barcelona, and tactic and familiarity edge in NT. And even then it has been more about titles than actual performances. Messi has single handely carried Argentina the same as Xaviniestavilla did collectively with Spain. Swap Higuain with Spanish shirt and the results would be opposite and nobody would rate them Top 5.

Wow. You really aren't a barca fan.

How does me being realist and not Xaviesta fanboy in anyway relate me not being a Barca fan? I'm the only Barca fan in this forum ffs, I'm the only one who defends Barca here when every other casual Xaviesta fanboy succumbs under Perez regime, mostly because nobody is blaming their fantasy players, entities that never even existed. Iniesta will again make in Ballon d'Or shortlist, and for fecking what? I would actually rate him as the second most overrated player ever after Fakenaldo.

The artist explains his art in his own words :-


http://www.fourfourtwo.com/performance/training/andres-iniesta-how-boss-midfield

Andres Iniesta sums up the last season :-

Highlights of the only player in Barcelona history to have played four UCL finals from those very matches all of which we won :-

I was thrilled beyond words when one day I turned on my television to find that this program was playing and that too it had just started :-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Artist-Being-Iniesta-Andr%C3%A9s/dp/147223233X

Ordered the book yesterday. This book's title reminded me of a few years back when in my signature I used to refer to our original holy trinity as Messi 'The Genius', Xavi 'The Maestro' and Iniesta 'The Artist'.

This thread was created in the general section. Maybe not all Barcelona fans have seen it yet :-

http://www.goallegacy.net/t39848-iniesta-interview-with-the-guardian#1666170

It's been a season in which age has clearly caught up with 'The Artist' and injuries are mounting thick and fast. How much longer do you think he will remain at Barcelona?

Really sad and surprise to see him dip so much. I remember he was actually decent at the beginning of the season... I still hope he can regain his level but probably too much to last for, but clearly a legend forever for us and I wouldnt mind seeing him stay for us how ever much longer he wishs tbh. I mean especially when the replacements clearly arent up to it still.

I wouldn't mind seeing Iniesta try a couple of years at a mid-level EPL or Serie A team. The mind is the same and the skills are still there but the body is much weaker and the stamina is much less. There comes a point when maybe it's better to leave than blot your copy book. Has that time come this summer? I am not really sure. It may all depend on whether Barca can purchase top quality midfield starters or not. Or maybe just one more year and then retire at World Cup 2018 as legends sometimes retire at world cups. Football outside Europe does not interest me but no harm in giving it a try mostly for non-footballing reasons.

No reaction at all to Iniesta being given a life time contract or would I find that in another thread?

Missed that information.

He played really well vs Alaves. That run for the first goal was a huge throwback.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/barcelona-spain-will-miss-iniesta-when-hes-gone/7z6lgi72zqhc1fmxs91x2m8jw

http://www.goal.com/en/news/guardiola-salutes-legacy-of-top-player-iniesta-ahead-of/1f3zmrcx6oc2m1ss75hyhaxpx9

What a performance by him in Copa del Rey final. He bossed the pitch like his prime days, and consequently, so did Barça. His best performance of the season.

He will be sorely missed by Barça fans.

He will be missed but not as badly as Xavi imo. To this day we haven't replaced Xavi properly. Thiago was supposed to be the one but we sold him

But yes, Iniesta is also one of a kind. I was convinced that he'd have a great game tonight since it is his last final with Barca.

heartbreaking