Sergio Ramos:'' It's an honour to be compared with Franz Beckenbauer

EarlyPrototype wrote:Franchise would look buff in that Ramos kit. Ramos is your favourite player. It is ok admit it.

His favourite is Cristiano.

The more you hate the more you love.

Im getting killed, 3 v 1.

Time to escape.

Franchise you can admit it we won't think any less of you broski.

The Franchise wrote:Im getting killed, 3 v 1.

Time to escape.

All bit of fun man.

Anyway the CR7 Portugal kit you bought from vacation was sick man! Hope you make it signed in the Clasico.

Jack Daniels wrote:

EarlyPrototype wrote:Franchise would look buff in that Ramos kit. Ramos is your favourite player. It is ok admit it.

His favourite is Cristiano.

The more you hate the more you love.

His favourite person = Cristiano

His favourite player = Ramos

:lol!:

Need to rethink my Skype contact list, all kinds of fabrications are being put on public display lol

The Franchise wrote:Need to rethink my Skype contact list, all kinds of fabrications are being put on public display lol

Hahahahahahah!!

i kid i kid.

Anyway catch you guys later.

:lol!:

Ill get you back.

The Franchise wrote:

teamanarchy wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

teamanarchy wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

teamanarchy wrote:Here's something Ironic...
Everyone here arguing that Ramos is crap, he's not fit to shine Beckenbauer's boot, blah blah blah is not older than, what, 25. So you were all born after 1986...
Beckenbauer's career started in '64 and ended in '83.
So, that means that none of you were actually old enough, or alive enough, to watch the Kaiser play.
Now I realise that you might have found one or two video clips on the internet.
Perhaps some of you have even been dedicated enough to download a full match or two. But, my guess is that none of you have actually see enough of Beckenbauer playing to actually have any clear idea of the ammount of talent that he possessed. Nor would you have any idea of his playing style.

So, basically all of your opinions are based one heresay, wikipedia articles and youtube...
So why are you all pretending like you know exactly what you're talking about?

None of the opinions expressed in this thread are any good. And most of you haven't even seen Ramos play at centre back.

You're glorified trolls...

I understand what your saying TA and I understand you like Ramos, but come on now.

You can watch Beckenbauer in just highlight form to see what kind of quality he had. If you look at his quality for his era and then his acheivements...you cant compare them to Ramos, who isnt ever the best defender (let alone player) on just his team alone.

Beckenbauers quality is so clear (again, compared to his peers in his era) you dont need game after game of watching to see how talented he was.

If you want to throw out this comparision, then you could probably do it on the basis of it not being fair to debate across eras. But in terms of achievement, legacy and quality relative to his peers, its obviously laughable to compare them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZmT6XNZK5M

What a quality world class player.
I mean, based on these video highlights he must be god.

Yeah, because thats the same thing.

smh

Actually, it pretty much is. You've watched a few YouTube clips of Beckenbauer and pretend like you know exactly what his style of play is.
Excatly how he affected the game
The logical fallacy here:
"HASTY GENERALIZATION: bases an inference on too small a sample, or on an unrepresentative sample. Often, a single example or instance is used as the basis for a broader generalization.

example: All of those movie stars are really rude. I asked Kevin Costner for his autograph in a restaurant in Westwood the other evening, and he told me to get lost.

example: Pit Bulls are actually gentle, sweet dogs. My next door neighbor has one and his dog loves to romp and play with all the kids in the neighborhood!"

First of all, who said I watched a few youtube clips? Maybe I watched a couple games. But whatever, assume away.

Maybe you do, but I think most do not need 10 seasons worth of videos to get an idea how good he was.

Anyone can see a WC final with him in it in this day and age, its not hard to find. Add what you see, to what he achieved..its not a complicated situation to see he is clearly not to be compared to Ramos of all people.

In a youtube video, you can see alot of his qualities. You wont see his weaknesses, you wont see his overall impact on the game, but you can see what made him a great player. Factor in the widespread knowledge that he won WC´s and was the dominating player on his team its not hard to figure out he was clearly on a different level to what Ramos is on now.

Saying its the same as Robinho doing stepovers against Bolivia, Mallorca and Chievo is retarded on your part.

Not only have we breached forum rule #1 (https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t91-general-rules), but we have found logical fallacies known as Red Herrings and Inconsistency...
RED HERRING: attempting to hide a weakness in an argument by drawing attention away from the real issue. A red herring fallacy is thus a diversionary tactic or an attempt to confuse or fog the issue being debated. The name of the fallacy comes from the days of fox hunting, when a herring was dragged across the trail of a fox in order to throw the dogs off the scent.
INCONSISTENCY: advancing an argument that is self-contradictory, or that is based on mutually inconsistent premises.

Who made you an admin?

My lord, another member of the over sensitive mob crying about nothing.

If you dont like me as an admin, your out of luck, aint gona change anytime soon.

Maybe you should just respond to my post rather then picking out one word and pretending to take offence to it.

I am sure you prefer ignoring the first 2 paragraphs though, seeing as you have no comeback to them.

Am I going to have to give you two warnings?

Play nice now.

Sushi Master wrote:Ramos is good and all, but I'm not sure where this comparison comes from.

Haven't seen anyone fit to shine the Kaiser's boots, TBH. Then again, it's an extinct position.

Lothar Matthaus had everything to be Kaiser's heir. The thing is he believed that more than anyone else and thus no one took him too serious with that one.

teamanarchy wrote:The comparison is laughable.
And I agree. There is no way Ramos is as good as Beckenbauer.
I havenn't denied this, nor has anybody on the forum.
Beckenbauer is one of the greatest players ever to play (let alone defenders).
When Ramos wins 3 UCLs.. he can then maybe think about being put in the same bracket. Maybe.
But the fact of the matter is, this thread is made up of stupid comments, talking about two players who none, or very little at least, of the posters making knowledge claims, have actually seen play and can provide valid opinions about.

Without really investigating, you are assuming none of these posters have good knowledge of past legends. That is ironical considering you are bashing them for the exact same thing.

Secondly, knowledge/opinion can be acquired/formed through secondary sources too. Infact, that is how a lot of people are functioning these days. You cannot really discredit opinions just because they do not happen to be primary.

No, I just figured that as a representative of the forum, and as somebody who is supposed to protect rather than break the rules of the forum, you should refrain from calling other posters retarded. I'm not offended, no, don't you worry... I just think that if I were to do the same thing, you would probably take my warning level down...
Are you not subject to the same rules?
And I did reply to your argument.
It's logically flawed. It's inconsistent.
You say we cannot base our opinion on Robinho on his YouTube clips and personal highlights, but we can do that for Beckenbauer...
It is basically what you said.
Or I tell you what, I'm sure I can find 3 or 4 games where Robinho performed really well. Full games. Then I'd be able to make the same judgement that you have for Beckenbauer...

I think many hate that Ramos is being cmopared to Beckenbauer, remember we also have Pepenbauer

Trolling aside Ramos is boss at CB and he really does have the potential to own that position given a few years

teamanarchy wrote:
You say we cannot base our opinion on Robinho on his YouTube clips and personal highlights, but we can do that for Beckenbauer...
It is basically what you said.
Or I tell you what, I'm sure I can find 3 or 4 games where Robinho performed really well. Full games. Then I'd be able to make the same judgement that you have for Beckenbauer...

that is not what he said...

kiranr wrote:

teamanarchy wrote:The comparison is laughable.
And I agree. There is no way Ramos is as good as Beckenbauer.
I havenn't denied this, nor has anybody on the forum.
Beckenbauer is one of the greatest players ever to play (let alone defenders).
When Ramos wins 3 UCLs.. he can then maybe think about being put in the same bracket. Maybe.
But the fact of the matter is, this thread is made up of stupid comments, talking about two players who none, or very little at least, of the posters making knowledge claims, have actually seen play and can provide valid opinions about.

Without really investigating, you are assuming none of these posters have good knowledge of past legends. That is ironical considering you are bashing them for the exact same thing.

Secondly, knowledge/opinion can be acquired/formed through secondary sources too. Infact, that is how a lot of people are functioning these days. You cannot really discredit opinions just because they do not happen to be primary.

Firstly, I'm not assuming.
I'm making a logical inference. They're different.
How many guys here are older than 30? Don't think anyone is, if the ages displayed on their profiles are to be believed. Anyone younger than 30, or thereabouts, is simply not old enough to remember what Beckenbauer played like (this is talking about the end of his career too... You would have to be about 50 to have an all encompassing view of his career. So, primary knowledge is non-existent.
But your point of secondary knowledge is quite valid.
The issue with that lies in that I sincerely doubt that anybody has actually gathered enough old videos (if they even exist) of Beckenbauer's performances to make a proper judgement on Beckenbauer's talents, abilities or playing style.
Sure, I'm sure we've all watched a Franz Beckenbauer 15 minute YouTube compilation, but 15 minutes simply does not equate to a 19-year career. Nor, for that matter does 3 or 4 full match videos...

So basically, I illustrated this point with the Robinho thing. But I could illustrate it the same way by posting a video of Adriano or even Freddie Adu.

And, to cover all my bases here, if you say you read articles on Wikipedia, or perhaps elsewhere, the basic fact of the matter is football is not a black and white game. Statistics and the written word simply cannot begin to be remotely as good as the real thing.
My basic point being, unless you have gotten the opportunity to watch all of, or at the very least 80% of Beckenbauer's career, you simply cannot truly understand the fine dynamics of his game to truly and objectively compare him to Sergio Ramos.

Think about it. When you started watching football, you probably were watching the likes of Guardioloa, Luis Figo, Beckham, Zidane, Ronaldo etc.
Now Imagine some 12 year old starts arguing with you that Ronaldo is twice the player Luis Figo ever was...
Would your first thought not be, "What the hell do you know about Luis Figo you little brat?"

It's the same for Beckebauer really.

All this rubbish aside, allow me to state my final point, upon which I will depart:
Beckenbauer played sweeper. A position that no longer exists. This simple point illustrates just how much the defensive game (let alone, every aspect of the game) has evolved. And Beckenbauer himself is at least partially responsible for that evolution.
Beckenbauer for the most part played under a system where 5 players were used at the back, holding midfielders were practically unheard of, and attackers were about as strong as my grandmother.
The cross-generational reference is, as we have discussed many times before, not properly reflective or even fair.

teamanarchy wrote:
Firstly, I'm not assuming.
I'm making a logical inference. They're different.
How many guys here are older than 30? Don't think anyone is, if the ages displayed on their profiles are to be believed. Anyone younger than 30, or thereabouts, is simply not old enough to remember what Beckenbauer played like (this is talking about the end of his career too... You would have to be about 50 to have an all encompassing view of his career. So, primary knowledge is non-existent.

Well, you are assuming they are not 30.

teamanarchy wrote:
But your point of secondary knowledge is quite valid.
The issue with that lies in that I sincerely doubt that anybody has actually gathered enough old videos (if they even exist) of Beckenbauer's performances to make a proper judgement on Beckenbauer's talents, abilities or playing style.
Sure, I'm sure we've all watched a Franz Beckenbauer 15 minute YouTube compilation, but 15 minutes simply does not equate to a 19-year career. Nor, for that matter does 3 or 4 full match videos...

Again you are assuming people have not watched enough beckanbauer.

Just kidding. I get your general point.

teamanarchy wrote:
So basically, I illustrated this point with the Robinho thing. But I could illustrate it the same way by posting a video of Adriano or even Freddie Adu.

And, to cover all my bases here, if you say you read articles on Wikipedia, or perhaps elsewhere, the basic fact of the matter is football is not a black and white game. Statistics and the written word simply cannot begin to be remotely as good as the real thing.
My basic point being, unless you have gotten the opportunity to watch all of, or at the very least 80% of Beckenbauer's career, you simply cannot truly understand the fine dynamics of his game to truly and objectively compare him to Sergio Ramos.

Think about it. When you started watching football, you probably were watching the likes of Guardioloa, Luis Figo, Beckham, Zidane, Ronaldo etc.
Now Imagine some 12 year old starts arguing with you that Ronaldo is twice the player Luis Figo ever was...
Would your first thought not be, "What the hell do you know about Luis Figo you little brat?"

It's the same for Beckebauer really.

Written word can be as good as the real thing. Think about it. When you are watching Beckenbauer, you are forming an opinion of how he plays. No matter how much you watch him play, your knowledge of his game will never be objective due its very nature. So when you are reading about Beckenbauer or listening to someone talk about him, you are essentially gaining knowledge about how he played, which is the same thing you would get if you watched him yourself. Hence you can use it to compare it with Ramos' game.

If you want objective comparison, i believe Dani's suggestion is the best. You look at his achievement relative to his peers. You look at the opinions people formed about him relative to his peers. You look at some of his statistics and awards he has won during his career. If you want to make it truly objective, you restrict all this information to when he was the same age as Ramos is now. Then you compare the same to Ramos' achievements relative to his peers and the opinion people have formed about him relative to his peers. It is very easy to reach a fairly objective conclusion.

Trophies, awards and accolades say nothing about each player's playing style, which is the issue being questioned here...
Lampard has won the premier league 3 times, naturally I assume he is a playmaker with fast pace and an instinct for goal scoring...

teamanarchy wrote:Trophies, awards and accolades say nothing about each player's playing style, which is the issue being questioned here...
Lampard has won the premier league 3 times, naturally I assume he is a playmaker with fast pace and an instinct for goal scoring...

Well, obviously just looking at awards is no going to give the entire picture, is it? Awards are just a gauge of the player's effectiveness. Naturally, it is not the only measure.

teamanarchy wrote:No, I just figured that as a representative of the forum, and as somebody who is supposed to protect rather than break the rules of the forum, you should refrain from calling other posters retarded. I'm not offended, no, don't you worry... I just think that if I were to do the same thing, you would probably take my warning level down...
Are you not subject to the same rules?
And I did reply to your argument.
It's logically flawed. It's inconsistent.
You say we cannot base our opinion on Robinho on his YouTube clips and personal highlights, but we can do that for Beckenbauer...
It is basically what you said.
Or I tell you what, I'm sure I can find 3 or 4 games where Robinho performed really well. Full games. Then I'd be able to make the same judgement that you have for Beckenbauer...

I have watch several Kaiser full matches and plus I have also watch numerous you-tube videos. He won different awards and cups that Ramos is yet to win and he was a sweeper not even a CB.

Just shout up already, you have no ideal of what you are talking about.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Beckenbauer was a libero, not a sweeper?

omarish wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but Beckenbauer was a libero, not a sweeper?

Thats two thesame things...

Sweeper and Libero are thesame, they play thesame role, just different names. Libero(Italian word meaning free) Sweeper(English word)

Some people are so *bleep* ignorant..

Idrisozet wrote:

teamanarchy wrote:No, I just figured that as a representative of the forum, and as somebody who is supposed to protect rather than break the rules of the forum, you should refrain from calling other posters retarded. I'm not offended, no, don't you worry... I just think that if I were to do the same thing, you would probably take my warning level down...
Are you not subject to the same rules?
And I did reply to your argument.
It's logically flawed. It's inconsistent.
You say we cannot base our opinion on Robinho on his YouTube clips and personal highlights, but we can do that for Beckenbauer...
It is basically what you said.
Or I tell you what, I'm sure I can find 3 or 4 games where Robinho performed really well. Full games. Then I'd be able to make the same judgement that you have for Beckenbauer...

I have watch several Kaiser full matches and plus I have also watch numerous you-tube videos. He won different awards and cups that Ramos is yet to win and he was a sweeper not even a CB.

Just shout up already, you have no ideal of what you are talking about.

Speak to me in correct English and you might not come across as stupid

teamanarchy wrote:No, I just figured that as a representative of the forum, and as somebody who is supposed to protect rather than break the rules of the forum, you should refrain from calling other posters retarded. I'm not offended, no, don't you worry... I just think that if I were to do the same thing, you would probably take my warning level down...
Are you not subject to the same rules?
And I did reply to your argument.
It's logically flawed. It's inconsistent.
You say we cannot base our opinion on Robinho on his YouTube clips and personal highlights, but we can do that for Beckenbauer...
It is basically what you said.
Or I tell you what, I'm sure I can find 3 or 4 games where Robinho performed really well. Full games. Then I'd be able to make the same judgement that you have for Beckenbauer...

Didnt call anyone retarded, I said the action was.

If you said what I said, no, I wouldnt take your warning level down. So again, whats the assumptions.

No, you didnt reply, you avoided it and pretended I broke a rule.

And no, I didnt say that at all so I dont know if you having reading difficulties or what.

I am done with this foolish arguement. Ramos isnt on his level in any way, shape or form and anyone with a pair of eyes, an internet connection and a functioning brain can see that.