So is Bundesliga really THAT competitive?

Sure, the most likely scenario is that Bayern will win it. Even the pattern agrees. But they're not gonna win it without a fight.

Oh, really? Gaps in points don't count? So you consider a 25 point gap between Barcelona and 3rd placed Valencia healthy? That's competitive as hell, then.

Dortmund won the league with a 7 point advantage. Milan won it with a 6 point advantage. Oh, no competition there, I guess.

The Bundesliga is a funny league in that a good teams can find themselves all over the table. Schalke went 14th and they got the CL semis, FFS. Bremen 13th, they are now 2nd. Monchengladbach were in relegation zone most of the time and are now also at joint 2nd. Bundesliga is much too unpredictable.

I'm not saying gaps dont count..Dont get me wrong..

I'll give an example..2008-09 Serie A season..Any Serie A fan who has followed the entire season would say that Inter won it easy even though Juventus finished in second place..I would say that juve were never really in the title race..

This is how i think this current bundesliga season will pan out..there's nothing wrong in making a prediction..And when i'm talking about gap in points i'm talkin about teams in contention for the title..Sorry for sounding vague..

Yup its unpredictable but as i said Bayern are just too strong this season..I am predicting monchengladbach will fizzle out just like hoffenheim did a few years ago..

Oh, yeah anyone could admit to that. But apart from Bayern, those CL spots will be fought over very hard. Hence the competiveness. Next season, you never know. According to the pattern, another team will win it but we'll see.

I consider Serie A competitive as hell even during Calciopoli, because while Inter was off running with all the titles, the other teams were all mostly very solid.

If we only went by champions, the Premier League isn't competitive at all

Well point taken..But i was stressing upon the no.teams contending for the title and in turn mounting a serious challenge to Bayern since the OP is talking about Championship won by various teams in the past few years..

Other than that I agree with what you've said..

Surag(J) and Sushi have brought this thread back beautifully with their insightful debates. Well done.

Frankly, I don't see how some don't mention how the world cup has brought so much fortune to Germany with the commercial value and of course the revamping and building of stadia while fat-headed platini and his corrupt UEFA conveniently gave a country that is in no need for the Euro instead of Italia in 2016 as this would have been immense for the Serie A. I still am angry about it to this day.

Thankfully teams like Lazio, Cagliari, Palermo, Inter, Roma, Siena and others have inaugrated their plans for stadia and should be done by 2015-16 nontheless. But shame on UEFA for the decision.

A good point was brought up about the german model as although Serie A was brought to its knees by Calciopoli, they stil are at fault for way of managing their league as compared to the superb German methods. I see improvements and innovations within the FIGC yet more must be done to stray away from their stubborn ways.

Without debating the rest, the reject logic never gets you anywhere. I guess Messi is a newell's old boys reject then. Even if a club doesn't want a player it doesn't mean he's a reject when joining another club. One player that works in one club doesn't work in another.

Surag.Blueguy wrote:And in Bundesliga you have many balanced teams so a 15 point difference between the first and the fourth is actually considered large..

That is the definition of a competetive league, so what's your point? :study:

VivaStPauli wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:And in Bundesliga you have many balanced teams so a 15 point difference between the first and the fourth is actually considered large..

That is the definition of a competetive league, so what's your point? :study:

I've admitted that it is a very competitive league havent I ?

I just meant to say that i dont think the other competitive teams(Eg.Bremen,dortmund etc) could mount a serious challenge to Bayern this season..In other words Bayern will win it easy..

This is all but a prediction..you can bump this thread if i'm proved wrong come the end of the season..

Yeah some don't seem to get that this thread is about competitiveness and not about which league is "the best".

Other than that I'm with Surag, there is no way Gladbach or Bremen have a serious chance of winning the title this season.

A small injury to Reus or Pizarro and they're *bleep*. If Bayern lose players they can just start some other NT-players.

Let's dig out this thread again and have a look after about the first half of the season. I will replace the images of the tables as soon as the matchdays are completed, but I think there will not be any big upheavals, also there could still be some 3-point adjustments:

Bundesliga table:

Spoiler:

Premier League table:

Spoiler:

La Liga table

Spoiler:

Serie A table

Spoiler:

Here you have a look at the difference in point between the top teams:

Bundesliga:
1-2: 3pt (difference 1st to 2nd)
2-3: 0pt (difference 2nd to 3rd)
1-4: 7pt (difference 1st to 4th) (possibly 4pt if M'gladbach win)
1-6: 11pt (difference 1st to 6th)

Premier League:
1-2: 2pt
2-3: 4pt (possibly 7pt if both ManUtd and ManCity win)
1-4: 7pt
1-6: 11pt (possibly 14pt if ManCity wins)

La Liga:
1-2: 3pt
2-3: 7pt (posssibly 4pt if Valencia wins)
1-4: 11pt (possibly 8pt if Levante wins)
1-6: 16pt

Serie A:
1-2: 1pt
2-3: 0pt
1-4: 3pt (possibly 0pt or 1pt depending on the 2nd-4th placed teams)
1-6: 11pt (possibly 8pt depending on Inter and/or Palermo)

So competitive-wise you currently have Serie A > Bundesliga > Premier League > La Liga

As mentioned before, this is not about "which league is best" - it is just a competitiveness check.

You were totally reminded of that due to my post

I will have to admit it's probably a Bayern season. Even without Schweinsteiger we're grinding out results? That's pretty amazing even though Alaba is a great talent.

The next 3 spots are totally up in the air, though. They could go to pretty much anyone and I'd argue it will be even more competitive than before due to having an extra CL qualification spot.

Sushi Master wrote:You were totally reminded of that due to my post

I will have to admit it's probably a Bayern season. Even without Schweinsteiger we're grinding out results? That's pretty amazing even though Alaba is a great talent.

The next 3 spots are totally up in the air, though. They could go to pretty much anyone and I'd argue it will be even more competitive than before due to having an extra CL qualification spot.

even hamburg can qualify

Sushi Master wrote:You were totally reminded of that due to my post

Yup

So, this is the update for the complete matchday. The Bundesliga has completed their "Hinrunde" (first half of the season) and goes into the winter break now (after the DFB Cup matches).

Bundesliga table - complete "Hinrunde":

Spoiler:

Premier League table - Matchday 16:

Spoiler:

La Liga table - Matchday 16:

Spoiler:

Serie A table - Matchday 15:

Spoiler:

Here you have a look at the difference in points between the top teams:

Bundesliga after matchday 17:
1-2: 3pt (difference 1st to 2nd)
2-3: 0pt (difference 2nd to 3rd)
1-4: 4pt (difference 1st to 4th)
1-6: 11pt (difference 1st to 6th)

Premier League after matchday 16:
1-2: 2pt
2-3: 5pt
1-4: 9pt
1-6: 12pt

La Liga after matchday 16:
1-2: 3pt
2-3: 4pt
1-4: 11pt
1-6: 16pt

Serie A after matchday 15:
1-2: 2pt
2-3: 0pt
1-4: 4pt
1-6: 12pt

Again, this is not about "which league is best" - it is just a competitiveness check.

BTW, this season looks not so boring in any of the big four ^^

Now that Serie A and La Liga have half-time now, here's an update of the competitiveness check:

Bundesliga table - Matchday 18:

Spoiler:

Premier League table - Matchday 22:

Spoiler:

La Liga table - Matchday 19:

Spoiler:

Serie A table - Matchday 19:

Spoiler:

Here you have a look at the difference in points between the top teams:

Bundesliga after matchday 18:
1-2: 0pt (difference 1st to 2nd)
2-3: 0pt (difference 2nd to 3rd)
1-4: 1pt (difference 1st to 4th)
1-6: 8pt (difference 1st to 6th)

Premier League after matchday 16:
1-2: 3pt
2-3: 5pt
1-4: 13pt
1-6: 18pt

La Liga after matchday 16:
1-2: 5pt
2-3: 9pt
1-4: 18pt
1-6: 22pt

Serie A after matchday 15:
1-2: 1pt
2-3: 2pt
1-4: 6pt
1-6: 11pt

Again, this is not about "which league is best" - it is just a competitiveness check.

I almost forgot about this, but I think it might be interesting to have a look again after most of the season is over.

Bundesliga table - Matchday 29:

Spoiler:

Premier League table - Matchday 32:

Spoiler:

La Liga table - Matchday 31:

Spoiler:

Serie A table - Matchday 31:

Spoiler:

Here you have a look at the difference in points between the top teams:

Bundesliga after matchday 29:
1-2: 3pt (difference 1st to 2nd)
2-3: 6pt (difference 2nd to 3rd)
1-4: 14pt (difference 1st to 4th)
1-7: 25pt (difference 1st to 7th)
(I changed to 7 for the BL as this season 7th place is the cut for the EL)

Premier League after matchday 32:
1-2: 8pt
2-3: 10pt
1-4: 20pt
1-5: 23pt
(I changed to 5 for the EPL as 5th place is the cut for the EL)

La Liga after matchday 31:
1-2: 4pt
2-3: 26pt
1-4: 31pt
1-6: 36pt

Serie A after matchday 31:
1-2: 1pt
2-3: 10pt
1-4: 14pt
1-5: 17pt
(I changed to 5 for Serie A as this season 5th place is the cut for the EL)

For the BL next matchday will be interesting as we will see the match Bayern vs Dortmund which will result either in 0pt between 1st and 2nd place or in 3 or 6 points difference, depending on the result.

Again, this is not about "which league is best" - it is just a competitiveness check.

The PL will go back to its competitive self next season once the teams strengthen.

The BL competitive as usual... maybe in the start of a "Top 4" group as we see in England, due to the high quality of the top teams and generally solid economic stability.

Spain... as usual, but Málaga being boss

The kind of deception i have been through reading this thread again :vagi:

Liga Sagres.

Dunno if we will see a "Top 4" for the BL - I think there is too much fluctuation in the top half of the league still.

Still - Serie A and Bundesliga looking well in your competetiveness-check.

Yeah. 14 points between 1st and 4th after around 30 matches is quite okay. And nice race at the Serie A top, too. Pity there is no direct showdown Juve vs Milan still coming up.

rwo power wrote:Dunno if we will see a "Top 4" for the BL - I think there is too much fluctuation in the top half of the league still.

You have to admit Dortmund and Bayern are not getting out of the top 4 any time soon. They're just too strong in all ways. Quality, manager, supporters, economically.

Schalke to me are also a step above all other competition. They have a great squad and have improved a lot their past economic problems.

Gladbach of course, needs a lot of work but are definitely solid enough for a CL spot. That 4th spot will be the hardest to earn, IMO, because there are a lot of teams capable of getting there. Leverkusen, Bremen and maybe a few others who can get here.

That CL money will make the league even more cut throat

Well, I hope that Hannover 96 will be able to settle in the upper places, too. They have heart and a good coach, too.

Bremen, sadly, are currently falling apart. Pizza on his way out, Merte already left, Wiese is a goner - and their past few transfers weren't as great as the signings they used to make - their scouts have lost the edge, I'm afraid.

.

Me too, I'm constantly being deceived.