So is Bundesliga really THAT competitive?

Shouldn't the Italians be happy that EL points might give them back the CL spot (if they manage to win EL matches, that is)? If Italian teams don't take the EL serious while they know that EL points count towards the 5 year ranking, it is solely their own fault. The UEFA rules have been known for a while now.

This forum never change..

[quote=jiopsi]Betis[/quote]
Betis won the league??

Anyway, I would be so happy for Betis.
They have Santa Cruz. and he's one of my all-time favorites..

Geo wrote:This forum never change..

jiopsi wrote:

Geo wrote:Its the only league in the world, where a newly promoted club wins the title!

Borussia Mönchengladbach of this season, are the best example of the competitiveness in the league.

Betis.

Betis won the league??

Anyway, I would be so happy for Betis.
They have Santa Cruz. and he's one of my all-time favorites..

I was referring other parts of your post, like being competitive promoted team. Betis was promoted this year, and they lead La Liga with one less game to play than others. Btw, Betis won 1933-34 La Liga (not being promoted though).

Sushi Master wrote:

Eivindo wrote:Ofc Bundesliga is the best league in the world.. look at how they are dominating the CL the past 10 years, clearly the best teams in the world

The topic is competiveness, not quality. Clearly Bundesliga is just catching up to other leagues, and not in money but talent.

Oh, and 4 CL spots.

U mad?

I don't care if they had 10, they wont win the CL, cause the best players still don't wanna play in Germany when they reach the top.

Eivindo wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

Eivindo wrote:Ofc Bundesliga is the best league in the world.. look at how they are dominating the CL the past 10 years, clearly the best teams in the world

The topic is competiveness, not quality. Clearly Bundesliga is just catching up to other leagues, and not in money but talent.

Oh, and 4 CL spots.

U mad?

I don't care if they had 10, they wont win the CL, cause the best players still don't wanna play in Germany when they reach the top.

What happened to Ribery, Robben, Neuer, Gomez, Hummelz, Subotic, etc

But I understand what you mean, but that is changing

that sad, sad feeling you get when butthurt serie a fans cant accept that the Bundesliga is on course to be probably the best league in Europe just cause they dominate Serie A in coefficients

Jeps33178 wrote:that sad, sad feeling you get when butthurt serie a fans cant accept that the Bundesliga is on course to be probably the best league in Europe just cause they dominate Serie A in coefficients

Butthurt ? Last time a German team won the CL was !? oh not even 5 years ago if we take this ranking seriously ... OMG Italy won the CL twice in the past 5 years ...

Bundesliga will never overtake EPL ...

Haters gonna hate..

Eivindo wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

Eivindo wrote:Ofc Bundesliga is the best league in the world.. look at how they are dominating the CL the past 10 years, clearly the best teams in the world

The topic is competiveness, not quality. Clearly Bundesliga is just catching up to other leagues, and not in money but talent.

Oh, and 4 CL spots.

U mad?

I don't care if they had 10, they wont win the CL, cause the best players still don't wanna play in Germany when they reach the top.

And its hardly any better in Seria A either.The best players of Milan and Inter are rejects from Barca and Madrid.And Seria A just lost 2 of their best players this season and hardly had any high quality players coming in.

The best players when they reach the top want to play for Madrid or Barca or in PL more often than not.Hardly a reason for Seria A fans to be chuffed about.

Eivindo wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

Eivindo wrote:Ofc Bundesliga is the best league in the world.. look at how they are dominating the CL the past 10 years, clearly the best teams in the world

The topic is competiveness, not quality. Clearly Bundesliga is just catching up to other leagues, and not in money but talent.

Oh, and 4 CL spots.

U mad?

I don't care if they had 10, they wont win the CL, cause the best players still don't wanna play in Germany when they reach the top.

Bayern is in better position to win the CL in comparison to any Italian team, actually. Unless Milan fix their midfield.

Beautiful game said it beautifully, too. Top talent goes to Madrid, Barcelona or to the PL where the big money is at. Pastore and Sanchez all left, Inter is in shambles, Roma rebuilding, Juve unproven, Napoli still lacking a bit of quality... the only CL ready club in Italy is Milan. Kinda like in Germany with Bayern, and Dortmund being at Napoli quality or so. That extra CL spot in Germany will help a lot on the long term, because that's like a 20m injection for another club while Italian clubs aren't even bothering to take back their spot.

And I can admit there's more quality in Serie A than in Bundesliga, but the clubs don't seize their opportunities.

Well i agree that its the most competitive league and has been for years..for example Wolfsburg winning Bundesliga and getting almost relegated last season..Stuttgart winning Bundesliga and finishing somewhere in Mid-table..Well that says it all about competitiveness..

But the only problem is Bundesliga clubs other than Bayern arent being able to push on and Establish themselves as Bundesliga's elite..Dortmund now have a big big chance and establish themselves as title contenders for a number of years since they have a pretty young squad and if they stutter this season and sell their best players it would i sense be detrimental to a league as a whole..

Yes it is. I said it earlier: In the last 5 years or so, at least two teams are leaving the Bundesliga which would easily finish mid-table in any league (except EPL). Take Moenchengladbach: 3 month after being almost relegated, now two points behind Bayern, last year the worst defense, now second best (3 goals in 7 games)... with the exact same squad.. (Their new and improved keeper, who took over near the end of last season is helping a lot, though) The last years of harvesting quality young players from the academies has broadened and strengthened the whole league.

BeautifulGame wrote:

Eivindo wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

Eivindo wrote:Ofc Bundesliga is the best league in the world.. look at how they are dominating the CL the past 10 years, clearly the best teams in the world

The topic is competiveness, not quality. Clearly Bundesliga is just catching up to other leagues, and not in money but talent.

Oh, and 4 CL spots.

U mad?

I don't care if they had 10, they wont win the CL, cause the best players still don't wanna play in Germany when they reach the top.

And its hardly any better in Seria A either.The best players of Milan and Inter are rejects from Barca and Madrid.And Seria A just lost 2 of their best players this season and hardly had any high quality players coming in.

The best players when they reach the top want to play for Madrid or Barca or in PL more often than not.Hardly a reason for Seria A fans to be chuffed about.

This is quite a poor post in every spectrum of word.

I guess Arjen Robben is a Madrid reject as well.

I guess the same logic applies for Sneijder.

Or maybe the same for Rafinha to Bayern?

smh

Arquitecto wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

Eivindo wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

Eivindo wrote:Ofc Bundesliga is the best league in the world.. look at how they are dominating the CL the past 10 years, clearly the best teams in the world

The topic is competiveness, not quality. Clearly Bundesliga is just catching up to other leagues, and not in money but talent.

Oh, and 4 CL spots.

U mad?

I don't care if they had 10, they wont win the CL, cause the best players still don't wanna play in Germany when they reach the top.

And its hardly any better in Seria A either.The best players of Milan and Inter are rejects from Barca and Madrid.And Seria A just lost 2 of their best players this season and hardly had any high quality players coming in.

The best players when they reach the top want to play for Madrid or Barca or in PL more often than not.Hardly a reason for Seria A fans to be chuffed about.

This is quite a poor post in every spectrum of word.

I guess Arjen Robben is a Madrid reject as well.

I guess the same logic applies for Sneijder.

Or maybe the same for Rafinha to Bayern?

smh

Certainly applies to Sneijder thats why i said Inter's best player is a madrid reject.I dont see any reason why it wouldnt apply for Robben either.

Would Ibra had come to Milan if he was happy and successful in Barca? Or Sneijder to Inter.Or even Robinho?Very much doubt it.

When was the last time Seria A clubs signed a high quality player from another league that wasnt shipped out by his previous club?Frankly i cant even remember.Because they arent as attractive as in years gone by.This applies to Bayern and other Bundensliga clubs too.

The fact is almost every quality player wants to go to PL or to Madrid or Barca nowadays because thats were the money is.And hence they are the most favoured destination nowadays which is a fact.

Seria A this season itself lost Sanchez Pastore and Eto'o and hardly signed any similar quality players.So I dont see whats wrong in my previous post there.

BeautifulGame wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

Eivindo wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

Eivindo wrote:Ofc Bundesliga is the best league in the world.. look at how they are dominating the CL the past 10 years, clearly the best teams in the world

The topic is competiveness, not quality. Clearly Bundesliga is just catching up to other leagues, and not in money but talent.

Oh, and 4 CL spots.

U mad?

I don't care if they had 10, they wont win the CL, cause the best players still don't wanna play in Germany when they reach the top.

And its hardly any better in Seria A either.The best players of Milan and Inter are rejects from Barca and Madrid.And Seria A just lost 2 of their best players this season and hardly had any high quality players coming in.

The best players when they reach the top want to play for Madrid or Barca or in PL more often than not.Hardly a reason for Seria A fans to be chuffed about.

This is quite a poor post in every spectrum of word.

I guess Arjen Robben is a Madrid reject as well.

I guess the same logic applies for Sneijder.

Or maybe the same for Rafinha to Bayern?

smh

Certainly applies to Sneijder thats why i said Inter's best player is a madrid reject.I dont see any reason why it wouldnt apply for Robben either.

Would Ibra had come to Milan if he was happy and successful in Barca? Or Sneijder to Inter.Or even Robinho?Very much doubt it.

When was the last time Seria A clubs signed a high quality player from another league that wasnt shipped out by his previous club?Frankly i cant even remember.Because they arent as attractive as in years gone by.This applies to Bayern and other Bundensliga clubs too.

The fact is almost every quality player wants to go to PL or to Madrid or Barca nowadays because thats were the money is.And hence they are the most favoured destination nowadays which is a fact.

Seria A this season itself lost Sanchez Pastore and Eto'o and hardly signed any similar quality players.So I dont see whats wrong in my previous post there.

Were Sanchez and Pastore quality players when they were brought in ? In the next 2 years Udinese will ship another 30 milion player

Well, Bayern wanted Rafinha the year before, but Schalke didn't want to sell him to them, so Rafinha had to go outside of Germany. Fortunately Bayern got him this season, and even for a better price.

rwo power wrote:Well, Bayern wanted Rafinha the year before, but Schalke didn't want to sell him to them, so Rafinha had to go outside of Germany. Fortunately Bayern got him this season, and even for a better price.

Milan wanted Ibra in 06 ... they got him last year for an even better price ...


Fact is all of them are rejects ...

Well i agree that Serie A lacks the financial muscle as compared to their English and Spanish counterparts which is why we find it hard to sign esteemed talents who are nowadays way overpriced..Neymar is a good example..But saying Serie A cannot still attract top players and end up signing rejects is a bit ridiculous in my opinion..

Even though we have lost a CL spot ,top Serie A clubs are still held in high regard and top players would still want to join them..

BeautifulGame wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

Eivindo wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

Eivindo wrote:Ofc Bundesliga is the best league in the world.. look at how they are dominating the CL the past 10 years, clearly the best teams in the world

The topic is competiveness, not quality. Clearly Bundesliga is just catching up to other leagues, and not in money but talent.

Oh, and 4 CL spots.

U mad?

I don't care if they had 10, they wont win the CL, cause the best players still don't wanna play in Germany when they reach the top.

And its hardly any better in Seria A either.The best players of Milan and Inter are rejects from Barca and Madrid.And Seria A just lost 2 of their best players this season and hardly had any high quality players coming in.

The best players when they reach the top want to play for Madrid or Barca or in PL more often than not.Hardly a reason for Seria A fans to be chuffed about.

This is quite a poor post in every spectrum of word.

I guess Arjen Robben is a Madrid reject as well.

I guess the same logic applies for Sneijder.

Or maybe the same for Rafinha to Bayern?

smh

Certainly applies to Sneijder thats why i said Inter's best player is a madrid reject.I dont see any reason why it wouldnt apply for Robben either.

Would Ibra had come to Milan if he was happy and successful in Barca? Or Sneijder to Inter.Or even Robinho?Very much doubt it.

When was the last time Seria A clubs signed a high quality player from another league that wasnt shipped out by his previous club?Frankly i cant even remember.Because they arent as attractive as in years gone by.This applies to Bayern and other Bundensliga clubs too.

The fact is almost every quality player wants to go to PL or to Madrid or Barca nowadays because thats were the money is.And hence they are the most favoured destination nowadays which is a fact.

Seria A this season itself lost Sanchez Pastore and Eto'o and hardly signed any similar quality players.So I dont see whats wrong in my previous post there.

Doesn't make sense as there is a distinct difference between the two.

You don't point out how most players don't have the choice to go their clubs simply because the club cannot afford them.

Sanchez wanted Inter but opted for Barca because he knew Inter could not afford them.

Pastore wanted Milan but opted for PSG due to their money.

Dzeko, Aguero all CLEARLY stated their interest for Milan and Juve (Dzeko for both, Aguero for Juve) while others like Nasri (who wanted Milan) Sahin (who wanted Milan as well) all were literally given no choice but to go for the alternative which is a club for money as they knew their desired choice could not afford them.

Do I even have to mention how many young prospects want Italian clubs?

Yes pastore left, Sanchez left, and Eto left. But they did so simply because their clubs could not afford to hold onto them.

Serie A has pretty much replaced those youngsters with equally if not better players like Pjanic and Lamela both who chose their respective clubs.

Sneijder wanted out of RM and chose Inter instead of City, Robinho was shifted out of RM due to his attitude and not his contribution as many RM rued the transfer of him to city.

Ibra wanted out of Barca and had the choice of City and opted for Milan.

As mentioned, Serie A doesn't possess the money of the top clubs, yet the desire for players to go to the league IS in fact existent as saying otherwise is ignorant.

Arquitecto wrote:

Doesn't make sense as there is a distinct difference between the two.

You don't point out how most players don't have the choice to go their clubs simply because the club cannot afford them.

Sanchez wanted Inter but opted for Barca because he knew Inter could not afford them.

Pastore wanted Milan but opted for PSG due to their money.

Dzeko, Aguero all CLEARLY stated their interest for Milan and Juve (Dzeko for both, Aguero for Juve) while others like Nasri (who wanted Milan) Sahin (who wanted Milan as well) all were literally given no choice but to go for the alternative which is a club for money as they knew their desired choice could not afford them.

Do I even have to mention how many young prospects want Italian clubs?

Yes pastore left, Sanchez left, and Eto left. But they did so simply because their clubs could not afford to hold onto them.

Serie A has pretty much replaced those youngsters with equally if not better players like Pjanic and Lamela both who chose their respective clubs.

Sneijder wanted out of RM and chose Inter instead of City, Robinho was shifted out of RM due to his attitude and not his contribution as many RM rued the transfer of him to city.

Ibra wanted out of Barca and had the choice of City and opted for Milan.

As mentioned, Serie A doesn't possess the money of the top clubs, yet the desire for players to go to the league IS in fact existent as saying otherwise is ignorant.

complete bull shit.Pastore never stated he want milan and nasri?


Sahin wanted milan? lol.so milan cant afford 10 million price tag now days? We wanted sahin and sahin wanted us.End of story.We signed him with out competition because he said he would have stayed in BVB if madrid didnt bid for him .Milan were never been in the picture.

Arquitecto wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:

Eivindo wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

Eivindo wrote:Ofc Bundesliga is the best league in the world.. look at how they are dominating the CL the past 10 years, clearly the best teams in the world

The topic is competiveness, not quality. Clearly Bundesliga is just catching up to other leagues, and not in money but talent.

Oh, and 4 CL spots.

U mad?

I don't care if they had 10, they wont win the CL, cause the best players still don't wanna play in Germany when they reach the top.

And its hardly any better in Seria A either.The best players of Milan and Inter are rejects from Barca and Madrid.And Seria A just lost 2 of their best players this season and hardly had any high quality players coming in.

The best players when they reach the top want to play for Madrid or Barca or in PL more often than not.Hardly a reason for Seria A fans to be chuffed about.

This is quite a poor post in every spectrum of word.

I guess Arjen Robben is a Madrid reject as well.

I guess the same logic applies for Sneijder.

Or maybe the same for Rafinha to Bayern?

smh

Certainly applies to Sneijder thats why i said Inter's best player is a madrid reject.I dont see any reason why it wouldnt apply for Robben either.

Would Ibra had come to Milan if he was happy and successful in Barca? Or Sneijder to Inter.Or even Robinho?Very much doubt it.

When was the last time Seria A clubs signed a high quality player from another league that wasnt shipped out by his previous club?Frankly i cant even remember.Because they arent as attractive as in years gone by.This applies to Bayern and other Bundensliga clubs too.

The fact is almost every quality player wants to go to PL or to Madrid or Barca nowadays because thats were the money is.And hence they are the most favoured destination nowadays which is a fact.

Seria A this season itself lost Sanchez Pastore and Eto'o and hardly signed any similar quality players.So I dont see whats wrong in my previous post there.

Doesn't make sense as there is a distinct difference between the two.

You don't point out how most players don't have the choice to go their clubs simply because the club cannot afford them.

Sanchez wanted Inter but opted for Barca because he knew Inter could not afford them.

Pastore wanted Milan but opted for PSG due to their money.

Dzeko, Aguero all CLEARLY stated their interest for Milan and Juve (Dzeko for both, Aguero for Juve) while others like Nasri (who wanted Milan) Sahin (who wanted Milan as well) all were literally given no choice but to go for the alternative which is a club for money as they knew their desired choice could not afford them.

Do I even have to mention how many young prospects want Italian clubs?

Yes pastore left, Sanchez left, and Eto left. But they did so simply because their clubs could not afford to hold onto them.

Sneijder wanted out of RM and chose Inter instead of City, Robinho was shifted out of RM due to his attitude and not his contribution as many RM rued the transfer of him to city.

Ibra wanted out of Barca and had the choice of City and opted for Milan.

As mentioned, Serie A doesn't possess the money of the top clubs, yet the desire for players to go to the league IS in fact existent as saying otherwise is ignorant.

Ofcourse money is the main reason not just transfer fees but also wages.Where did i say otherwise I even bold quoted that line.

It doesnt matter how much history Seria A clubs have as long as they dont have money the top players and prospects will be going to Madrid Barca or PL teams and Seria A will also struggle to hold on their better players too.Which in turn means weakening of their league and thus attractiveness of the clubs reduced to a larger extent too.These are mutually exclusive.

Infact my initial comment was a response to a comment that was saying Best players dont want to play in Germany and was just pointing out that Seria A is in similar boat too.

Arquitecto wrote:Serie A has pretty much replaced those youngsters with equally if not better players like Pjanic and Lamela both who chose their respective clubs.

Pjanic and Lamela are just unproven youngsters who need time to develop into good players whereas Pastore and Sanchez have reached that level.If u cant see the gap in quality between these players then its just pure denial.

Sushi Master wrote:

Eivindo wrote:Ofc Bundesliga is the best league in the world.. look at how they are dominating the CL the past 10 years, clearly the best teams in the world

The topic is competiveness, not quality. Clearly Bundesliga is just catching up to other leagues, and not in money but talent.

Oh, and 4 CL spots.

U mad?

R.I.P Eivindo

Adit wrote:complete bull shit.Pastore never stated he want milan and nasri?


Sahin wanted milan? lol.so milan cant afford 10 million price tag now days? We wanted sahin and sahin wanted us.End of story.We signed him with out competition because he said he would have stayed in BVB if madrid didnt bid for him .Milan were never been in the picture.

This is hilarious..So you're saying Pastore would have rejected Milan ?We cant base our assumptions on random rumors cuz they are inconclusive..

But distinctly remember Pastore saying he would prefer Italy stay..Unfortunately there were no club in Serie a that could satisfy Zamparini's demands..

As for Sahin ? we cant really talk of that as Milan hardly showed any concrete Interest..
But thats what we're trying to get our point across arent we ?Serie A clubs lack the financial muscle as compared to Real Madrid or Barca..
But you cant take away the fact that Italy is still an attractive destination for top players..

BeautifulGame wrote:Pjanic and Lamela are just unproven youngsters who need time to develop into good players whereas Pastore and Sanchez have reached that level.If u cant see the gap in quality between these players then its just pure denial.

Pastore and Sanchez were unproven young talents when they arrived in Italy..Respective Serie a clubs groomed them into top players..Guess the same will happen to the likes of lamela and pjanic..

And regarding Pastore and Sanchez's scenario Arq already explained above..

Surag.Blueguy wrote:
Pastore and Sanchez were unproven young talents when they arrived in Italy..Respective Serie a clubs groomed them into top players..Guess the same will happen to the likes of lamela and pjanic..

And regarding Pastore and Sanchez's scenario Arq already explained above..

So what it still reduces the quality of Seria A to a large extent this season.Its like saying because Ronaldo and Fabregas came to PL as youngsters selling him to Madrid and Barca doesnt reduce the quality of PL.

The likes of Pjanic and Lamela may develop into good players in future but they they arent as good as Pastore or Sanchez now.So the quality of the league is simply reduced.

To say that they were replaced by similar quality if not better quality players (in Pjanic and Lamela ) is absurd.

BeautifulGame wrote:

Surag.Blueguy wrote:
Pastore and Sanchez were unproven young talents when they arrived in Italy..Respective Serie a clubs groomed them into top players..Guess the same will happen to the likes of lamela and pjanic..

And regarding Pastore and Sanchez's scenario Arq already explained above..

So what it still reduces the quality of Seria A to a large extent this season.Its like saying because Ronaldo and Fabregas came to PL as youngsters selling him to Madrid and Barca doesnt reduce the quality of PL.

The likes of Pjanic and Lamela may develop into good players in future but they they arent as good as Pastore or Sanchez now.So the quality of the league is simply reduced.

To say that they were replaced by similar quality if not better quality players (in Pjanic and Lamela ) is absurd.

Perhaps i misinterpreted your post..But my response was to your initial post when you say that Serie A lost its best players and the reasoning was also provided above since Serie A clubs couldnt afford their exorbitant price tags..

But you're making it sound as though Serie A is inferior when it comes to attracting high-profile players which is certainly not the case...Pastore and Sanchez leaving the league has its own reasons and i dunno why we are disputing that again and again..And serie a certainly cannot be mentioned in the same bracket as Bundesliga as far as attracting players are concerned which you're doing currently..

A really good example is Arturo Vidal..We are without european football and we beat Bayern to his signature..And please dont give me that Bayer04 werent prepared to sell to Bayern excuse..If that was the case then Vidal would have waited another year until he transfers to Bayern on a free..Such instances tell you that Serie A has definitely not lost its sheen when it comes to attracting top players..

Surag.Blueguy wrote:

Adit wrote:complete bull shit.Pastore never stated he want milan and nasri?


Sahin wanted milan? lol.so milan cant afford 10 million price tag now days? We wanted sahin and sahin wanted us.End of story.We signed him with out competition because he said he would have stayed in BVB if madrid didnt bid for him .Milan were never been in the picture.

This is hilarious..So you're saying Pastore would have rejected Milan ?We cant base our assumptions on random rumors cuz they are inconclusive..

But distinctly remember Pastore saying he would prefer Italy stay..Unfortunately there were no club in Serie a that could satisfy Zamparini's demands..

As for Sahin ? we cant really talk of that as Milan hardly showed any concrete Interest..
But thats what we're trying to get our point across arent we ?Serie A clubs lack the financial muscle as compared to Real Madrid or Barca..
But you cant take away the fact that Italy is still an attractive destination for top players..

I never stated italy isnt an attractive place for players,i was rather questioning arquitectos arguments with no basis such as nasri wanted milan and sahin wanted milan etc,i really dont know when they said that? saying sahin opted madrid bcz milan are in financial crisis and they cant afford 10 million for sahin is simply not true.

As for pastore,he opted for a better future imo.With the money in their hands PSG can surpass any team in series A in near future imo.